Of course
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Is scrum really necessary?
- Thread starter sigesige00
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Of course
SuckerForRed
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Am I the only Aussie Rugby supporter who actually likes the scrum? Yes I know what happened over the weekend but that is part of the game that we need to improve.
I want it to stay. As others have put before me the scrum provides a tactical platform for the backs to attack. Also provides a contest for the ball when mistakes occur that don't justify a penalty kick.
In the NRC (National Rugby Championship), the afore mentioned 'new Australian competition' there are a number of things to do with the scrums that are being trialed.
1) There is a 30sec limit on the time taken to set & feed a scrum. I can only remember one incident where the Ref has called this & this was after repeated warnings to the teams.
2) More emphasis on the scrum being steady & stable before the feed.
3) The defending half-back cannot enter the "pocket" between the flanker & number 8.
The free kick / penalty situations for scrums are the same as what was/is running else where. First offence of that type = short arm, subsequent offences = penalty.
An informal situation has arisen however where a few of the refs are letting the scrum play on if the ball is at the number 8's feet & the scrum collapses, in some cases telling the team in possession to "Use it". This I think is a good thing and should be continued at all levels. Treat it like a ruck - the ball is available, use it. Don't go trying to milk a penalty.
Personally I like the scrums. Yes it is not pretty at times but I still see it as a important part of the game and I think the Ref's have more of an influence on endless resets then the players. I they worry you that much I feel that League might be the better game for you to watch.
I want it to stay. As others have put before me the scrum provides a tactical platform for the backs to attack. Also provides a contest for the ball when mistakes occur that don't justify a penalty kick.
In the NRC (National Rugby Championship), the afore mentioned 'new Australian competition' there are a number of things to do with the scrums that are being trialed.
1) There is a 30sec limit on the time taken to set & feed a scrum. I can only remember one incident where the Ref has called this & this was after repeated warnings to the teams.
2) More emphasis on the scrum being steady & stable before the feed.
3) The defending half-back cannot enter the "pocket" between the flanker & number 8.
The free kick / penalty situations for scrums are the same as what was/is running else where. First offence of that type = short arm, subsequent offences = penalty.
An informal situation has arisen however where a few of the refs are letting the scrum play on if the ball is at the number 8's feet & the scrum collapses, in some cases telling the team in possession to "Use it". This I think is a good thing and should be continued at all levels. Treat it like a ruck - the ball is available, use it. Don't go trying to milk a penalty.
Personally I like the scrums. Yes it is not pretty at times but I still see it as a important part of the game and I think the Ref's have more of an influence on endless resets then the players. I they worry you that much I feel that League might be the better game for you to watch.
Again, you see this in League as well... I was watching a game with the Tigers not long ago where the scrum half and half back performed a "mouse trap" at the back and the 6 went straight through the middle of the scrum. Set plays are the only reason they kept scrums in League as it ties up the forwards and gives the backs a chance to try stuff.
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goodNumber10
International
If a scrum is dominant it can be used to:
Gain Penalties, both Kickable and Try
Send a defence backwards, if a dominant scrum is pushing forward it's a way to keep the ball away from the opposition and your team moving forward .
It's a way to compete for the ball at the re-start - if you have a dominant scrum you can regain possesion.
Yes, all of these things can be done in league but they aren't as the scrum is just a restart, saying we can do that doesn't make it the same - if that makes sense.
SimonG
Academy Player
Endorse everything. Another fine contribution sige.
I'm not overly hostile toward the scrum (and line out) so long as the game has an emphasis on open running Rugby. As this is no longer the case (French flair dead, Aussie interest in the sport dwindling) then I'd advocate something as drastic as discarding both. The sport would then be the purist form of open attacking running Rugby which is what garners most attention, France would become France again, the Aussies would start to get interested again...the competition and entertainment standard would be higher.
It already exists a similar thing,and australian people like it,it's rugby league
SimonG
Academy Player
It has play the ball routine....over 600 stoppages per game.
Union has the endless set pieces.
Discard both, combine the two codes...bam, best of both words, a needless split from 1895 reversed, stronger teams, more competition, and the exciting running rugby the vast majority of folk want to see.
Union has the endless set pieces.
Discard both, combine the two codes...bam, best of both words, a needless split from 1895 reversed, stronger teams, more competition, and the exciting running rugby the vast majority of folk want to see.
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Rugby is a game for all shapes. Although scrums can drag on and become boring, they do offer the game more tactical variety. Get rid of them and you'll have more action but it will become more like rugby league. No thanks
SimonG
Academy Player
I urge any staunch Union fan to watch some action from the NRL (and Super League)...in terms of excitement there is no comparison. The obvious way of knowing this (besides observing it yourself) is the crowd noise...it's constant with League...Union its very quiet for the majority of the game. Take out the play the ball routine and League would be the game for me.
I'm a Union man (not hardcore like most on here) but its still the code closest to me...and what I lament is how the game has become much more forward dominated, bigger physical brutes and endless set pieces, less swashbuckling running Rugby. New Zealand I've never used as an example of the games demise as they have maintained their exceptional high standards...they are the exception to the rule. We used to fear being ripped open at Twickenham...not any more, Scotland used to be able to score tries...not any more, French flair is dead and they have, quote "adopted the stodgy foreign forward orientated game", Aussie interest in Union has dwindled and the previously competitive Bledisloe Cup is now a mismatch. Used to always get up early on a Saturday to watch that game....would never have missed it, now the lie in wins every time.
Oh lord where is the game I used to know?
I'm a Union man (not hardcore like most on here) but its still the code closest to me...and what I lament is how the game has become much more forward dominated, bigger physical brutes and endless set pieces, less swashbuckling running Rugby. New Zealand I've never used as an example of the games demise as they have maintained their exceptional high standards...they are the exception to the rule. We used to fear being ripped open at Twickenham...not any more, Scotland used to be able to score tries...not any more, French flair is dead and they have, quote "adopted the stodgy foreign forward orientated game", Aussie interest in Union has dwindled and the previously competitive Bledisloe Cup is now a mismatch. Used to always get up early on a Saturday to watch that game....would never have missed it, now the lie in wins every time.
Oh lord where is the game I used to know?
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Yep, still the most tiresome poster on the board.
Yeah I agree with it,also if I really can't see rugby without scrums.Scrum is one of the things I miss most since I don't play anymore
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I watch the NRL regularly - and if you think it is great excitement the whole time then you are watching a different competition than me. League usually goes like this: first three hit ups done by one pass from dummy half, if you are deep in your half you'll kick on the fourth (where the other teams wingers haven't dropped back yet like they would on the 5th), otherwise kick on the fifth. The other team will get the ball and repeat that process.
At some point, an attacker will drop the ball or a defender will get penalised leading to one team being on attack. The attacking team will then run second man plays over and over again, until the opposition winger comes in off his wing and creates an overlap (honestly I'd love to see what % of tries are scored like this in league). If that doesn't work they'll bomb into a corner and hope for the best or grubber into the in-goal hoping for a line drop out.
The flow of the game is repetitive and if you don't get teams wanting to attack from their own half it is a very boring game. You don't see free flowing play in league very often. The highlights packages can look great for sure - but most of the game is one pass then tackle.
jonny24
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You're right, there isn't. League bores the **** outta me.
Scrums are a key part of the game. It adds to possibilities of attack, offers another area for teams to have strengths in, and perhaps most importantly, it lets people of all shapes and sizes play the game. International and pro leagues aren't the only rugby in the world. Especially in non-traditional rugby markets, the inclusiveness of rugby is a huge help to its growth. How many people would follow the sport if they hadn't played in school, or had a friend who did? Now take away half of those people.
My club won our league this year. Why? League-best defense, and a tight, cohesive scrum that gave our backs the space and ball to score. The problems that exist at the top flight don't always carry down to the bottom, and the scrum still works basically as it is meant to.
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dasNdanger
First XV
I must say that I've seen more 'balls out' (literally) in League than in Union. Not sure if I find that exciting, or embarrassing. Also, not sure why it seems that league players don't wear any underdrawers. :huh:
Joking aside, league can be quite exciting - I love the State of Origin games. Still, ordinary games can be a bit boring at times because they lack the battle for the ball that you get with the union game. Union is much more spontaneous and unpredictable, whereas league is more structured making it easier to anticipate what's going to happen next. I know that's an extremely simplistic way of looking at it, but I think it sums up how I feel about it. I like an unpredictable game and so therefore sometimes find the 'structure' of league a bit dull, but I can totally understand that for other people the repetitive rhythm of the league game is just as exciting.
If I could compare it to music - Union is like Korn, and League is like AC/DC.
das
SimonG
Academy Player
Can anyone explain the differential in crowd noise then?
Union gets sporadic moments of noise, League it's almost constant.
More runs, more hits, more attacks....all aspects that garner most attention therefore surely Union could look at itself and look to change?
I'm a Union man for the sole reason it's the only code played here and we were brought up on it. It's like religion...you are only catholic (or whatever denomination) because your parents are, that's what you have been brought up with...step outside this bias and take a good look at the merits of the other. Had we not I would be split 50:50 between the two codes as one has 600 stoppages on average per game (play the ball), and the other is now dominated by set pieces and stodgy forward play. Since, as I've said before, these are the criticisms of opposing codes, why not discard them and create the ultimate game of Rugby?
I know zilch about cricket, but Imagine it had a split due to a silly war over players being pro/amateur...one code throws underarm and the other plays with two players less...not only pointless but waters down and lessens the quality of the sport.
Union gets sporadic moments of noise, League it's almost constant.
More runs, more hits, more attacks....all aspects that garner most attention therefore surely Union could look at itself and look to change?
I'm a Union man for the sole reason it's the only code played here and we were brought up on it. It's like religion...you are only catholic (or whatever denomination) because your parents are, that's what you have been brought up with...step outside this bias and take a good look at the merits of the other. Had we not I would be split 50:50 between the two codes as one has 600 stoppages on average per game (play the ball), and the other is now dominated by set pieces and stodgy forward play. Since, as I've said before, these are the criticisms of opposing codes, why not discard them and create the ultimate game of Rugby?
I know zilch about cricket, but Imagine it had a split due to a silly war over players being pro/amateur...one code throws underarm and the other plays with two players less...not only pointless but waters down and lessens the quality of the sport.
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I'm sorry but i just can't sit through a league game.
SixteenSixtySix
Academy Player
Union was the first code before league was invented. Why should it change just because league exists?
Since you have seen the light of Rugby League, could you please just ***** off.
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I enjoy playing both, but watching union for sure. Also why would they want two sports to be the same ? People like variety so give it to them, also is league even more popular than union ?
goodNumber10
International
i'm presuming this is in reference to SimonG?
because people neeeeeeeeed to feel like they've won!
