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2016 Olympic Games, Rio

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RedruthRFC said:
Naivety certainly, why hypocrisy? Are you suggesting that some of those decrying those who have been caught out know more than they are letting on or are even guilty themselves? I suspect this is the case too.

There have been enough high profile cases that I'm amazed people aren't more cynical. My favourite case if the 1988 men's 100, final. Ben Johnson went from hero to zero and was widely vilified. It turns out that six of his seven competitors would go on to be caught out for drug offences! FWIW, it was my favourite ever 100m race for a lot of years on the basis that it was an amazing performance and that it's rife.

Also....."Live Strong!"
Click to expand...

Yep, basically... it's interesting - AFAIK that was basically the start of widespread disapproval of doping, and it was brought about by team USA wanting to win a gold, despite their team systemically doping.
 
ratsapprentice said:
Yep, basically... it's interesting - AFAIK that was basically the start of widespread disapproval of doping, and it was brought about by team USA wanting to win a gold, despite their team systemically doping.
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Looking at the Wikipedia page on the 1988 race, it is alleged that endocrine profiles for track and field athletes taken at that games indicated long term steroid abuse in 80% of competitors and hinted at a cover-up as NBC were threatening to pull funding if there was a massive scandal.
 
RedruthRFC said:
Looking at the Wikipedia page on the 1988 race, it is alleged that endocrine profiles for track and field athletes taken at that games indicated long term steroid abuse in 80% of competitors and hinted at a cover-up as NBC were threatening to pull funding if there was a massive scandal.
Click to expand...


Oh yeah - since the 60's they've all been at it, it was widely known, and from what I can tell; not really frowned upon by that many people... certainly not in the way it is now.
It was that race that changed it - Team USA turned it into a "we've been cheated!" situation, and everyone was outraged that they'd supposedly been cheated.

Since then we've had this awkward situation where the IOC and other Elite sports authorities have been pressured into cracking down on something that actually enhances their "product", but it's not really in their interests to do so.
 
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Anyone else find this brilliant:

Chinese broadcaster CCTV has also complained about the Chinese flags that were used over the weekend during ceremonies at the Rio games. The small stars on the Chinese flag are supposed to all point toward the flag’s large star, but at the Rio games, the flags have small stars all pointing upward.

“The national flag is the symbol of a country. No mistakes are allowed!” CCTV declared.
To make matters worse, it was later revealed by Chinese media that the flags were manufactured in China.
Click to expand...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...mack-horton-attacks-sun-yang?CMP=share_btn_tw
 
ratsapprentice said:
Oh yeah - since the 60's they've all been at it, it was widely known, and from what I can tell; not really frowned upon by that many people... certainly not in the way it is now.
It was that race that changed it - Team USA turned it into a "we've been cheated!" situation, and everyone was outraged that they'd supposedly been cheated.

Since then we've had this awkward situation where the IOC and other Elite sports authorities have been pressured into cracking down on something that actually enhances their "product", but it's not really in their interests to do so.
Click to expand...

All very true I'm sure. The only way I can see a level playing field would be to throw things open, although I accept that it's never going to happen. The bulk of my knowledge of PEDs comes from strength sports, where there are plenty of stories of people losing their lives to PED abuse. What's the likelihood of this happening in Olympic sports?
 
RedruthRFC said:
All very true I'm sure. The only way I can see a level playing field would be to throw things open, although I accept that it's never going to happen. The bulk of my knowledge of PEDs comes from strength sports, where there are plenty of stories of people losing their lives to PED abuse. What's the likelihood of this happening in Olympic sports?
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Bodybuilders? Outside of 80's/90's bodybuilding, I'm not aware of anything which you could really describe as a trend.

It's very unlikely. Although I agree, the current stance towards PED's isn't right IMO.
A free for all isn't the answer, I don't think... but a less "drugs are bad mmkay?!" attitude would be much healthier.

It's fairly complicated though.
 
TRF_nickdnz said:
Anyone else find this brilliant:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...mack-horton-attacks-sun-yang?CMP=share_btn_tw
Click to expand...

I love the fact that the flags were made in China, although to be fair, maybe the manufacturer made them to the pattern that they had been supplied by a third party who was in the wrong.

TBH I think that this complaint is legit - the host nation have a duty to get these things right. Not quite as embarrassing as a 2012 soccer venue (Ibrox?) getting confused between the North and South Korean flags though!
 
ratsapprentice said:
Bodybuilders? Outside of 80's/90's bodybuilding, I'm not aware of anything which you could really describe as a trend.
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Mostly. Greg Kovaks, Andreas Munzer and Nasser El Sonobatty (sp? on all) come to mind, I'm sure there's more. Also, for such a small sport, there's a frightening amount of strongman competitors who have died young. I'm not sure if any were from the direct consequences of PEDs, but you have to wonder if they would have survived had they not had such a crazy body mass - something that they wouldn't have been able to do without PEDs. Again, off the top of my head, Jesse Marunde, Johnny Perry and Mike Jenkins all died during their career.

I should point out that having had to use Wikipedia to remember Mike Jenkins' name, I read that thee coroner attributed his death to PED abuse. I don't know that there was a direct link with the other names that I mentioned, although I would bet good money that there was in the case of Munzer.

Mike Jenkins died in 2013, all the rest are previous to this. Are these things becoming rarer? Also, are there examples outside BB and strongman? They're the only two mainstream strength sports I've ever really followed.

- - - Updated - - -

Tigs Man said:
You mean that exact same link I posted at the top of the page not 2 hours ago?
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Talking of that link. Does anyone thing that the Chinese have a legit complaint. As far as I can see, the Aussie called a convicted drugs cheat a drugs cheat. If he had mitigation, why didn't he appeal. Maybe it was unnecessary, but I don't really see how you can complain. The replies quoted from various Chinese paint a picture of a nation with a persecution complex and one quick to go on the offensive with some fairly borderline comments themselves, although to be fair, maybe they are a misrepresentation.
 
Yeah, the bodybuilders you mentioned all rode on the crest of the wave of PED's that guys in the 90's were doing, and now no longer do for the most part, because it ****s you up. Badly. (Insulin and HGH are the main culprits, according to most people)

As you say - the big issue is the size of these guys, not the drugs. And to say they couldn't be as big as they are without drugs isn't really true either - they're obviously better off from a performance POV, but it's not like they're gonna lost 20kg without them.

It's generally accepted that being massive is not fantastic, from a health perspective. Neither is very strenuous exercise - running marathons is not healthy, as such.
Mike Jenkins was 180kg and putting himself through very demanding training, it's not all that surprising that he died, frankly. Unless you've got a heart that's completely faultless, you're likely to encounter issues.

It's why the bodybuilders of the 70's and early 80's have lived very long healthy lives - they generally ranged from 90-110kg and were primarily using Test, not super powerful diuretics and insulin.
They certainly weren't the size they have been since the 90's. Guys like Ronnie Coleman weighed 150+kg in their off-season.
And it's not like Arnie and the gang weren't taking drugs... they were injecting and popping test pills like sweets according to most people around the BBing scene in the 70's.
 
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