[2013 TRC] New Zealand vs South Africa in Auckland (14/09/2013)

[Sam Owen]

This is right up there with Eliota Sapolu IMO.

This is why I call this game Rulesby. We love our game but not everyone is one with the rules and it doesnt help that its always changing almost annually. The reff should use the T.V footages more often just like Mallet was saying.

I say leave the reff alone whether he's Lawrence, Owens, Barnes, Poite or Joubert. Criticise cos that's what the forums are for but at some stage let it go. Don't go all Sapolu about it.

In that game I thought the ABs played better Rugby and they won. The team that plays better Rugby doesn't always win but in that game the good team did.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I say leave the reff alone whether he's Lawrence, Owens, Barnes, Poite or Joubert. Criticise cos that's what the forums are for but at some stage let it go. Don't go all Sapolu about it.

Sorry Sam, but I just can't accept this.

They are after all the enforcers of the laws/rules. If they are doing it incorrectly, then players will be given a precedent to bend the rules as much as possible, and the game will descend into anarchy.

If we keep on leaving the refs alone, then they will have this aire of entitlement to do whatever they want without any recourse. And that's no way to handle the matter amicably.

 

[Sam Owen]

IMHO Messam, should have made a better attempt at tackling. Going upright into a tackle is NEVER a good way to go about it....

BUAHAHAHA Don't you ever EVER leave our forum brother. You crack me up lol

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

That was a sad non-game of rugby and this is now a very sad thread. That is all from me.

 

[Sam Owen]

Sorry Sam, but I just can't accept this.

They are after all the enforcers of the laws/rules. If they are doing it incorrectly, then players will be given a precedent to bend the rules as much as possible, and the game will descend into anarchy.

If we keep on leaving the refs alone, then they will have this aire of entitlement to do whatever they want without any recourse. And that's no way to handle the matter amicably.

It's a tough job bro, I've never reffed Rugby but I can imagine how hard it can be. Pressure wise I'm talkin about.

I ask one question and it goes for anyone reading this..Is it always when your team loses that you hate the reff?

 

[Icemn]

New Zealand didn't dominate this game up to either card though. In fact, both cards were administered in the NZ half.

Anyhow to Heineken above, Bismarck deserved a yellow in the second half.

by dominate i mean the better team, yes they were not dominant dominant BUT NZ are slow starters and they finish way stronger than what they start...

the 1st yellow and the second yellow are valid and deserved!!!
1st yellow is a shoulder charge... now the naive fans are posting pics of the tackle seconds after the shoulder charge was made and bismark then only grabbed hold of carter disguising the shoulder charge... but its fine.. they can drown in their own ignorance...

second yellow is a elbow to the face lol for "hand off gone wrong"... you don't hand-off with your elbow...

Bismark deserved his red and needs to get a 2 match ban as well...

 

[TRF_heineken]

It's a tough job bro, I've never reffed Rugby but I can imagine how hard it can be. Pressure wise I'm talkin about.

I ask one question and it goes for anyone reading this..Is it always when your team loses that you hate the reff?

I dislike certain refs, regardless of the outcome of the match. Steve Walsh is one of them. His last match he blew for the Boks were in Mendoza, we won, but he sure made some horrible calls during the game.

 

[Gena_ZA]

by dominate i mean the better team, yes they were not dominant dominant BUT NZ are slow starters and they finish way stronger than what they start...

the 1st yellow and the second yellow are valid and deserved!!!
1st yellow is a shoulder charge... now the naive fans are posting pics of the tackle seconds after the shoulder charge was made and bismark then only grabbed hold of carter disguising the shoulder charge... but its fine.. they can drown in their own ignorance...

second yellow is a elbow to the face lol for "hand off gone wrong"... you don't hand-off with your elbow...

Bismark deserved his red and needs to get a 2 match ban as well...

Welcome dear Idiot - http://www.sanzarrugby.com/therugbyc...ard-rescinded/

 

[Gena_ZA]

@ Sam, for sure mate, especially when it messes up a potential great great game
or any other game of real importance, need not be your own team on the wrong side

 

[Colombia]

Umm, we were still winning prior to both incidents.

7-3 before the first yellow card with Steyn missing a penalty.
10-10 before the second incident without the try scored against 14.

Winning yes, dominance no.

 

[Sam Owen]

the 1st yellow and the second yellow are valid and deserved!!!
1st yellow is a shoulder charge...

I thought he smashed DC in a good, solid, teach-all-the-kids-this-way tackle. That can of whip ass was straight out of the priests pantry. That was all good, it just looked bad, you know what I mean.

I dislike certain refs, regardless of the outcome of the match. Steve Walsh is one of them. His last match he blew for the Boks were in Mendoza, we won, but he sure made some horrible calls during the game.

Fair enough. I don't think you've said as much about Walsh as you've said about Poite but your reasons being might be a long story. You don't like refs!

 

[TRF_heineken]

Fair enough. I don't think you've said as much about Walsh as you've said about Poite but your reasons being might be a long story. You don't like refs!

I like refs that do their job properly.

Craig Joubert, George Clancy, Allain Rolland, Glen Jackson, Chris Pollock... to name a few that I really appreciate and like.

 

[Colombia]

Not for nothing but it's interesting that the IRB made this announcement considering the abuse Paddy O'Brian and NZ got after the 2009 Italy match which we still seem to hear about.

Interesting alright. I'd say its a double standard. They should now retrospectively apologise to Paddy for the way they treated him and acknowledge that he was right to do what he did. But they won't.

At least one thing Paddy can be proud of is that he changed the mindset at the iRB, opening the "closed shop" attitude that prevailed where referees were never wrong or rebuked publically . We all know that referees were thoroughly reviewed and privately reprimanded when they made bad mistakes, but that process needed to have a public outlet, and with his open criticism of Stuart Dickinson's abysmal performance at San Siro in 2009, Paddy made sure that it got one.

I think the iRB finally understood that (even if they never publicly acknowledged it) when they offered him the job of heading-up the Sevens Referees unit as we move towards Rio 2016 and a new age of Olympic Rugby.

:lol: stellar post

by dominate i mean the better team, yes they were not dominant dominant BUT NZ are slow starters and they finish way stronger than what they start...

the 1st yellow and the second yellow are valid and deserved!!!
1st yellow is a shoulder charge... now the naive fans are posting pics of the tackle seconds after the shoulder charge was made and bismark then only grabbed hold of carter disguising the shoulder charge... but its fine.. they can drown in their own ignorance...

second yellow is a elbow to the face lol for "hand off gone wrong"... you don't hand-off with your elbow...

Bismark deserved his red and needs to get a 2 match ban as well...

1st yellow was wrong, arms were used in the tackle.
2nd yellow was right.

lol @ 2 match ban, that would be convenient!

Let's all agree on one thing, incidents aside Bismarck was playing phenomenally well.

 

[Icemn]

Does anyone have footage of the tackle from different angles???

 

[Dougydeluxe]

Hey Smartcooky,

Yes I guess you were right there. I also ready on Planet Rugby how the TMO has been asked not to voice an opinion on something unless they have been asked by the Ref.

 

[ABs2011]

I thought the situation was comparable because Cruden and Messam were both established in their position before they were injured (at least when Carter's out, for the former - I don't share your opinion that Cruden is the better of the two, just yet) but their replacements performed unexpectedly well in their absence. In any case, I agree with you. Cruden should definitely start.

Sorry mate, I didn't mean to impy it wasnt comparable, it is, and there is now an entire thread on it. The difference for me is the Cruden is defiunately preffered to Barrett, while the better player between Luatua and Messam for me is questionable. As a result I think Messam gets the nod because he is the senior more experienced player, however for me Cruden gets the nod simply because he is better.

 

[ABs2011]

Obviously SA's have the right to feel aggrieved, if the shoe was on the other foot I would be gutted too. When I take a step back from both camps though you have to ask yourself which was more idiotic, the refs call with BDP's first yellow, or BDP leading with an elbow knowing another yellow would see him off for good? For me it was the later. Regardless of how bad the first yellow card decision was, SA was still in the game at that point, the game was gone however when he rightfully got himself sent off.

With all that being said, the game on the weekend if anything showed NZ are still a step ahead of their SA rivals.

Ellis park rematch will be interesting. I hope it's not a scrappy affair as a previous SA poster has suggested. If both teams play rugby it will be a fantastic spectacle.

 

[Larksea]

the ref made a mistake and gave an incorrect yellow card, but BDP only has himself to blame for the 2nd yellow and red card. Seriously when you are under a yellow card don't defend yourself by leading into an opposition player with an elbow towards their head and neck. BDP played roulette, put everything on the line and lost. And at the end of the day it was dangerous, deliberate and caused an injury putting it at the high end of yellow cards. red cards have been given for less.

Whatever way you look at it the negativity being directed towards Messam, Carter and the All Blacks in not called for or justified.

 

[ABs2011]

the ref made a mistake and gave an incorrect yellow card, but BDP only has himself to blame for the 2nd yellow and red card. Seriously when you are under a yellow card don't defend yourself by leading into an opposition player with an elbow towards their head and neck. BDP played roulette, put everything on the line and lost. And at the end of the day it was dangerous, deliberate and caused an injury putting it at the high end of yellow cards. red cards have been given for less.

Whatever way you look at it the negativity being directed towards Messam, Carter and the All Blacks in not called for or justified.

There is negativity directed towards Messam and Carter? Who's this coming from and what the heck for? Cheers.

 

[Larksea]

There is negativity directed towards Messam and Carter? Who's this coming from and what the heck for? Cheers.

well seems Messam has copped a barrage on tritter, people in this thread say they have lost respect for the All Blacks because of this... I dont know how bad it is, I can understand springbok supporters being a bit upset at the ref. Though it did distract from the contest I don't think anyone can say it cost the boks the match as the ABs in general were the better team and looked in control the whole time regardless of numbers. And its certianly not their fault the boks had a player sent off.