2014 ERC Finals - Not in Italy but in France

[Nielsch]

The 2014 Heineken Cup and Amlin Challenge Cup finals will be hosted by France and not - as some sources stated earlier - by Italy.

http://www.espnscrum.com/heineken-cup-2012-13/rugby/story/170324.html

 

[welshglory]

Disappointing but they did say in the next couple of years so it has to be in 2015.

There might not even be a HC by then so are the ERC jumping the gun?

Anyway i've got a few theories.
1. The ERC are cosying up to the LNR with the discussions going on.
2. Since the 2013 final will be in the Aviva stad in Ireland which is significantly smaller than Twicks, M Stad etc... They want to have a guaranteed sell out in a big stadium.
3. With the HC discussions going on there's a possibility that no Italian sides will be participating then, so maybe they want to leave it for another year to see what happens.

I hope they can take it to the Stade Veledrome if it's redeveloped by then, that would be immense and something new, i'm getting tired of the same old stadiums.

The Stade de France for the HC and the redeveloped Stade Jean-Bouin (Parc de Princes would be cool but it's unlikely that it would be a sell out) for the Challenge cup are more likely though.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Hardly surprising, and maybe a little bit disappointing, but considering the current climate of European rugby it makes perfect sense. Premier rugby seems hell bent on pulling out of the Heineken Cup and have essentially said as much with their BT deal. The LNR on the other hand are much more undecided. From what I can see they're far more in favour of staying in the ERC competitions albeit with slightly re-jigged qualification and financial distributions. No harm in the ERC buddying up to them by giving them a final. In the long run, it could do a lot more good for Italian rugby (by keeping the HC in place) and European club rugby as a whole, than playing the final in Rome or Milan.

 

[smartcooky]

And now this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...solation-by-ERC-chairman-Jean-Pierre-Lux.html

[TEXTAREA]English clubs warned they could face European isolation by ERC chairman Jean-Pierre Lux.

English clubs were on Monday night accused of holding direct talks with South African clubs and warned they could be cast adrift from future European competitions following claims that Premiership Rugby's new broadcasting deal with BT Vision was "illegal". The accusations were made by Jean-Pierre Lux, the chairman of European Rugby Cup Limited, the governing body of the Heineken Cup, at a press conference involving all seven French qualifiers for this season's tournament.

Premiership Rugby last night denied it had held any formal talks with South Africa. But Lux's claims will increase tensions ahead of the next ERC stakeholders' meeting to resolve the fallout over Premiership Rugby's decision to unilaterally sign a £152 million deal with BT Vision, which included the rights to European ties involving English clubs from 2014.

"This is shocking because it is illegal," Lux said of Premiership Rugby's new broadcasting deal.

ERC says it has struck a four-year deal with the current rights holder BSkyB starting in 2013.

"The English delegates at the ERC did not say anything about how the money from the deal will be shared between the domestic and European competitions and how it will be shared with the other countries' clubs," Lux said.

"They opened talks directly with some South African and French clubs. This has hampered the negotiations. It is hard to talk with them. We may have to move on without the English, though I do not want that."

A Premiership Rugby spokesman refuted Lux's claims. "No formal discussions have taken place with the South Africans," he said. "We have put our proposals to ERC and we look forward to their response.

"We withdrew from the accord in June and ERC has accepted that it cannot include the rights of the English clubs in any other rights deal it does."

Lux's threat that English clubs could be frozen out of future European competitions is likely to inflame the situation less than a week after Rugby Football Union chairman Bill Beaumont offered his services to act as peace broker.
However, Premiership Rugby's bid to overhaul the Heineken Cup by reducing the number of clubs from 24 to 20 with just six qualifying from the RaboDirect Pro12 league, did receive widespread support from the French clubs.
[/TEXTAREA]

Are the PRL really determined to put English rugby into isolation?


From this side of the planet, the entire episode seem to have all the hallmarks of a cross between a game of chicken and a testosterone fuelled ******* contest, and of course, any avid movie goer will remember Captain Bart Mancuso's famous one-liner from The Hunt for Red October....

"The hard part about playing chicken is knowin' when to flinch"

 

[Nielsch]

I'm starting to wonder whether there even will be a 2014 final?

Anyway, if there is, another option next to Stade de France and the new Stade Velodrome would be the new Grand Stade Lyon / Stade des Lumières which should be finished by then.

 

[GaretSantana]

Hardly surprising, and maybe a little bit disappointing, but considering the current climate of European rugby it makes perfect sense. Premier rugby seems hell bent on pulling out of the Heineken Cup and have essentially said as much with their BT deal. The LNR on the other hand are much more undecided. From what I can see they're far more in favour of staying in the ERC competitions albeit with slightly re-jigged qualification and financial distributions. No harm in the ERC buddying up to them by giving them a final. In the long run, it could do a lot more good for Italian rugby (by keeping the HC in place) and European club rugby as a whole, than playing the final in Rome or Milan.

Agree...but I think the re-distribution of qualifications will penalize italian teams regardless of where the finals will be played in the next years. Honestly, if we consider statistics, the path of italian teams in HC looks like a nightmare: in 2011/2012 they made 1 win, 1 draw and TEN (!) losses. In 2010/2011 got worse, with 1 win and 11 losses. It didn't go better in Amlin Challenge Cup: in 2011/2012 there were ZERO wins and 24 losses.
Considering the idea of splitting the european competitions in three parts (a sort of SUPER-HC with just one italian team -obviously Benetton Treviso-, Challenge Cup -with Zebre and many other teams-, and a cup for emerging european clubs), I think the proper collocation for italian teams is not the highest possible.

 

[Nielsch]

I think it would be better to reduce the Heineken Cup to 20 teams but still give one place to the Italians and the Scottish. This way, the RaboDirect would get a little bit more meaning without completely ignoring the Italian and Scottish teams.

Maybe something like this:

FIRST DIVISION</SPAN>

• Five best teams from the Aviva Premiership (5)</SPAN>
• Five best teams from the Orange Top 14 (10)</SPAN>
• Best Scottish team from the RaboDirect Pro12 (11)</SPAN>
• Best Italian team from the RaboDirect Pro12 (12)</SPAN>
• Three best Irish teams from the RaboDirect Pro12 (13)</SPAN>
• Three best Welsh teams from the RaboDirect Pro12 (18)</SPAN>
• Last year's winner (19)</SPAN>
• Winner of last year's Second Division Cup (20)</SPAN>

SECOND DIVISION</SPAN>

• Numbers 6 through 11 from the Aviva Premiership (6)</SPAN>
• Numbers 6 through 11 from the Orange Top 14 (12)</SPAN>
• Last placed Scottish, Welsh, Irish and Italian team from the RaboDirect Pro12 (16)</SPAN>
• Three best Italian teams from the Super 10 Competition (19)</SPAN>
• Winner of last year's Third Division Cup (20)</SPAN>

THIRD DIVISION</SPAN>

• Numbers 4 through 9 from the Italian Super 10 Competition (6)</SPAN>
• Two teams from: Spain, Russia, Georgia, Romania (14)</SPAN>
• One team from: Portugal, Belgium, Germany, Ukraine, Poland, Czech Republic</SPAN>

 

[GaretSantana]

Probably it won't be too far from that.

 

[welshglory]

I think 6 from England and 2 from Wales would be fairer, looking at past performances

 

[danit]

I think it would be better to reduce the Heineken Cup to 20 teams but still give one place to the Italians and the Scottish. This way, the RaboDirect would get a little bit more meaning without completely ignoring the Italian and Scottish teams.

fair enough

one more issue: former France manager and current Toulon boss Bernard Laporte called for the European Cups to be played in two months to allow clubs to focus on their domestic fixtures afterwards."A single playing window would be more logical to me," he said."Then we could move on to our domestic championships."

such a change would certainly boost the European Competitions, and allow the domestic leagues to be played on a more regular basis

 

[psychic duck]

THIRD DIVISION

• Numbers 4 through 9 from the Italian Super 10 Competition (6)
• Two teams from: Spain, Russia, Georgia, Romania (14)
• One team from: Portugal, Belgium, Germany, Ukraine, Poland, Czech Republic

From what I've heard the proposed new 3rd ERC tournament would be on a smaller scale than a 20 team tournament. More likely an 8-12 team tournament.

I've also heard that the Celts are against this tournament, so these nations are all hoping for the French and English to get their way.

Also the Italian league teams may not be in the tournament much longer, as some see having them in the Amlin Challenge Cup as the equivalent of having Neath, Blackrock College and Hawick in the tournament.

 

[Teh Mite]

And now this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...solation-by-ERC-chairman-Jean-Pierre-Lux.html

[TEXTAREA]English clubs warned they could face European isolation by ERC chairman Jean-Pierre Lux.

English clubs were on Monday night accused of holding direct talks with South African clubs and warned they could be cast adrift from future European competitions following claims that Premiership Rugby’s new broadcasting deal with BT Vision was “illegalâ€. The accusations were made by Jean-Pierre Lux, the chairman of European Rugby Cup Limited, the governing body of the Heineken Cup, at a press conference involving all seven French qualifiers for this season’s tournament.

Premiership Rugby last night denied it had held any formal talks with South Africa. But Lux’s claims will increase tensions ahead of the next ERC stakeholders’ meeting to resolve the fallout over Premiership Rugby’s decision to unilaterally sign a £152 million deal with BT Vision, which included the rights to European ties involving English clubs from 2014.

“This is shocking because it is illegal,†Lux said of Premiership Rugby’s new broadcasting deal.

ERC says it has struck a four-year deal with the current rights holder BSkyB starting in 2013.

“The English delegates at the ERC did not say anything about how the money from the deal will be shared between the domestic and European competitions and how it will be shared with the other countries’ clubs,†Lux said.

“They opened talks directly with some South African and French clubs. This has hampered the negotiations. It is hard to talk with them. We may have to move on without the English, though I do not want that.â€

A Premiership Rugby spokesman refuted Lux’s claims. “No formal discussions have taken place with the South Africans,†he said. “We have put our proposals to ERC and we look forward to their response.

"We withdrew from the accord in June and ERC has accepted that it cannot include the rights of the English clubs in any other rights deal it does.â€

Lux’s threat that English clubs could be frozen out of future European competitions is likely to inflame the situation less than a week after Rugby Football Union chairman Bill Beaumont offered his services to act as peace broker.
However, Premiership Rugby’s bid to overhaul the Heineken Cup by reducing the number of clubs from 24 to 20 with just six qualifying from the RaboDirect Pro12 league, did receive widespread support from the French clubs.
[/TEXTAREA]

Are the PRL really determined to put English rugby into isolation?


From this side of the planet, the entire episode seem to have all the hallmarks of a cross between a game of chicken and a testosterone fuelled ******* contest, and of course, any avid movie goer will remember Captain Bart Mancuso's famous one-liner from The Hunt for Red October....

The English and the French have posted notice to leave ERC run competitions from the end of next season. What they arrange after this date has nothing at all to do with ERC.


Quote: "A PRL spokesman rejected Lux's claims. "No discussions have taken place with the South Africans," he said. "We have put our proposals to ERC and we look forward to their response. We withdrew from the accord in June and ERC has accepted that it cannot include the rights of the English clubs in any other rights deal it does."