[2014 TRC] South Africa v Argentina in Pretoria (16/08/2014)

[big ginger 8]

When people refer to him as "Ruan 'the game' Pienaar", it's not because he's well respected.
But on you're point, we all know he plays well for his club, what we don't understand is why he cannot recreate that form or improve on it for the Boks. He is the reverse Nonu!!!!!

Yeah it been quite clear for a while he's not held in high regard in SA.

I'm saying playing with Pollard is more similar to his situation with Ulster where he has helped the young Paddy Jackson. The main problem imo has been that he's not been allowed be the focal point controlling everything French style.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

He is just too damn slow with delivering the ball. Would he be quicker if tasked to run the game (man, there are so many ruan, run, ruin puns floating through my head right now)? I'd have to see it to believe it.

What I want with Pollard there at 10 is not someone to take pressure off of him; the boy has shown some very good signs ITO decision making in pressure games and I'd want similar set ups to ones where he has shone in. I want a 9- somewhat of a break away from what we've come to EXPECT from SA 9's it's true- that isn't necessarily the primary decision maker or has a good kicking game. He must have a crisp delivery and be as quick to the break down and firing as humanly possible. That will result in points. If he has a decent kick or is decent on defense or with a dart around the fringes to keep denfences guessing, great. But first things first. Someone like Aaron Smith; that pass, that speed to the breakdown. He wouldn't even need Smith's all-round game for me to be happy.

Looking at our current squad with Pienaar, Hougaard and Reinach I'd want to turn it right around; Reinach starting, Hougaard benched with Pienaar outside the matchday 23 and Reinach and Hougaard told to play their own games and donate a testicle if they so much as consider giving a punt or think at all before they make a play from the base. They should seemingly be running on automatic and have already decided where to pass or dart in the 0.01s it takes them to get to the breakdown.

 

[SomeOke]

The main issue is that our momentum can often be stifled with slow ball. It's all well and good having go forward ball brought about through strong ball carriers, but when the defense has been sucked in or is on the back foot what you really need is someone to deliver the goddamned ball, a second or two can be all the time a defense needs to realign.

I'm also not worried about Pollard, he doesn't strike me as someone who will be intimidated or is afraid of taking a hit (he takes contact better than any fly-half I can mention off hand) and he's 1.88m and about 95kgs he can handle himself.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

The main issue is that our momentum can often be stifled with slow ball. It's all well and good having go forward ball brought about through strong ball carriers, but when the defense has been sucked in or is on the back foot what you really need is someone to deliver the goddamned ball, a second or two can be all the time a defense needs to realign.

I'm also not worried about Pollard, he doesn't strike me as someone who will be intimidated or is afraid of taking a hit (he takes contact better than any fly-half I can mention off hand) and he's 1.88m and about 95kgs he can handle himself.

Yes, Pollard enjoys taking on the line and isn't just a 'link man' or kicker. He has a good varied game and showed enough maturity with his decision making for me and obviously HM to give him a go. But as good as he might be he is not going to do anything with poor slow service.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Likely starting lineup for the Boks:

http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/08/13/damian-de-allende-set-earn-test-debut-pumas/

1. Tendai Mtawarira (186cm, 120kg)
2. Bismarck du Plessis (189cm, 114kg)
3. Frans Malherbe (190cm, 124kg)
4. Eben Etzebeth (205cm, 125kg)
5. Lood de Jager (206cm, 125kg)
6. Francois Louw (190cm, 114kg)
7. Willem Alberts (192cm, 120kg)
8. Duane Vermeulen (193cm, 116kg)

9. Ruan Pienaar (187cm, 90kg)
10. Handre Pollard (189cm, 96kg)
11. Bryan Habana (180cm, 94kg)
12. Jean de Villiers (190cm, 103kg)
13. Damian de Allende (189cm, 105kg)
14. Cornall Hendricks (188cm, 90kg)
15. Willie le Roux (185cm, 90kg)

16. Jannie du Plessis (188cm, 121kg)
17. Gurthro Steenkamp (188cm, 125kg)
18. Adriaan Strauss (184cm, 111kg)
19. Bakkies Botha (203cm, 124kg)
20. Marcell Coetzee (191cm, 109kg)
21. Francois Hougaard (180cm, 93kg)
22. Morne Steyn (184cm, 93kg)
23. Jan Serfontein (187cm 98kg)

Where's Warren Whitely ?

 

[SomeOke]

Where's Warren Whitely ?

He's really a fantastic player but honestly I wouldn't have selected him either, even when our team was looking a little shakey after the world cup our loose trio has been indomitable. We've really reached the perfect balance, and as soon as you remove one element the whole balance collapses.

Whiteley might add more than Vermulen but it might require a complete restructuring of our loose-trio and he's not quite enough of a world beater for that to be necessary. Basically although our loose trio may not have the best individual skills it would take a Read or a Hooper for me to change it.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

i just really believe he is ready to get a cap for the springboks for this game i thought he would have atleast be on the bench and play like the last 10 - 15 minutes maybe

 

[Imagine]

i just really believe he is ready to get a cap for the springboks for this game i thought he would have at least be on the bench and play like the last 10 - 15 minutes maybe

It would be really cool to see him on the squad for the end of year tour to the north, but the Rugby Championship is not the place to play players for 10 minuets without any real perceived benefit. As much as it hurts me, he is just not in the squad atm and including him in the squad for no other purpose than to just have him there is the worst thing I have ever heard......you are a bad person for espousing this view point!!!!!!

 

[Jaguares]

I like Damian de Allende, he has had a great season before his injury, he deserves this opportunity but please have mercy on the Pumas. I'd like to see him on fire against Kiwis.

Likely starting lineup for the Boks:

http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/08/13/damian-de-allende-set-earn-test-debut-pumas/

1. Tendai Mtawarira (186cm, 120kg)
2. Bismarck du Plessis (189cm, 114kg)
3. Frans Malherbe (190cm, 124kg)
4. Eben Etzebeth (205cm, 125kg)
5. Lood de Jager (206cm, 125kg)
6. Francois Louw (190cm, 114kg)
7. Willem Alberts (192cm, 120kg)
8. Duane Vermeulen (193cm, 116kg)

9. Ruan Pienaar (187cm, 90kg)
10. Handre Pollard (189cm, 96kg)
11. Bryan Habana (180cm, 94kg)
12. Jean de Villiers (190cm, 103kg)
13. Damian de Allende (189cm, 105kg)
14. Cornall Hendricks (188cm, 90kg)
15. Willie le Roux (185cm, 90kg)

16. Jannie du Plessis (188cm, 121kg)
17. Gurthro Steenkamp (188cm, 125kg)
18. Adriaan Strauss (184cm, 111kg)
19. Bakkies Botha (203cm, 124kg)
20. Marcell Coetzee (191cm, 109kg)
21. Francois Hougaard (180cm, 93kg)
22. Morne Steyn (184cm, 93kg)
23. Jan Serfontein (187cm 98kg)

Thanks for the lineup! The player lighter weighs 90 ks, interesting.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

It would be really cool to see him on the squad for the end of year tour to the north, but the Rugby Championship is not the place to play players for 10 minuets without any real perceived benefit. As much as it hurts me, he is just not in the squad atm and including him in the squad for no other purpose than to just have him there is the worst thing I have ever heard......you are a bad person for espousing this view point!!!!!!

yeah possible a call up against italy

 

[Big Ewis]

Thanks for the lineup! The player lighter weighs 90 ks, interesting.

Grenoble coach talked about his club's couple of heavy defeats in Argentina some weeks ago and said a few interesting things. He said he thought the Pumas had metamorphosed from a very typically forward-based, huge scrum type game to a much more attack-minded one recently. He feels Sanchez is perfect for their current style as he's a 10 who attacks the gainline a lot, looks to have his back line play with intent, and we've seen how he animates those Bordeaux backs in the Top 14, one of the most attack-minded teams in France.
He finds their game interesting, but found one of the big weaknesses was the center combination. They lack pure centers who can add the right amount of punch the team would need.

 

[Bull]

I'm not a fan of Cobus Reinach but geez he is miles better than Pienaar.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Ai ja jai!

everyone has a guy they like or dislike, whether it is Pienaar, Hougaard, Reinach or Mcleod (man I hate that guy). But it doesn't matter, we are not the coach, and we have to accept who he picks. And I don't know why everyone has such a bee in their bonnet about Pienaar. He doesn't do that double step that hougaard does which puts the backline in all sorts of backfoot pressure. And with Pollard at 10 you will need an experienced guy at 9. Pienaar is just our most experienced scrumhalf in the squad without FdP, so let's leave it be. Also Pienaar hasn't done anything wrong in the tests he has played so far this year, so why punish the guy so much??

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Where's Warren Whitely ?

He's really a fantastic player but honestly I wouldn't have selected him either, even when our team was looking a little shakey after the world cup our loose trio has been indomitable. We've really reached the perfect balance, and as soon as you remove one element the whole balance collapses.

Whiteley might add more than Vermulen but it might require a complete restructuring of our loose-trio and he's not quite enough of a world beater for that to be necessary. Basically although our loose trio may not have the best individual skills it would take a Read or a Hooper for me to change it.

Yeah, Whiteley had a fantatic SR season but it's a case of who too leave out. Burger has also been class coming back from injury but also didn't make teh cut and frankly, our loose trio as is has been our one consistent strength with Alberts possibly being the 'weak' link if one can call it that and with the poorest season behind him but he was played out of position at the Sharks and has had poor seasons with them before only to come good in a green jersey. Coetzee as the bench spot I agree with as he has become a very capable proper open side which has been rare for us. I agree with SomeOke in that it'd take a Read or Hooper to force HM's hand.

Whiteley I think is one of those unfortunate SA loose forwards that has the ability but there are just too few spots avaiable. At 26 he might get a look in sometime still but I can't see HM bring in someone new in the backrow at this stage what with Juan Smith (proven) and Arno Botha (young- with a lot of years still- and already capped) also on the fringes. That said if Whiteley got a call up I'd be the first to cheer though but I just can't see it happen and I'm okay with that.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

According to the Lions management, Meyer et al showed no interest in Whiteley throughout the season.

 

[TRF_heineken]

According to the Lions management, Meyer et al showed no interest in Whiteley throughout the season.

Yeah, and??

Whiteley is in the same boat as Brussouw. And to be perfectly honest, I don't rate Whiteley higher than Brussouw. If I had to pick between those 2 guys, I'd pick Brussouw every single time. I know they are different types of players, but they aren't picked, because of their size or as Yoe91 would say MASS.

Whiteley only shines when the game is loose, just like Pierre Spies. When the game is a tight affair he dissapears completely.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

You could make a good squad of SA players not selected just like you could make a good squad of NZ players not selected and most probably for better reasons than the public are generally aware of. It just comes down to the fact that you can only have so many players in a squad and you'd probably rather work with the guys already in the fold who you know certainly if they havn't given you any reason to drop them.

I'd say a team of...

1 Heinke van der Merwe
2 Craig Burden
3 Brian Mujati
4 Juandre Kruger
5 Stephan Lewies
6 Heinrich Brussow
7 Schalk Burger
8 Warren Whiteley
9 Rory Kockott
10 Johan Goosen
11 Gio Aplon
12 Frans Steyn
13 Rob Ebersohn
14 Lionel Mapoe
15 Louis Ludik

16 Chiliboy Ralepele
17 Coenie Oosthuizen
18 Franco van der Merwe (the other one)
19 Nizaam Carr
20 Sarel Pretorius
21 Marnitz Boshoff
22 Peter Grant
23 Julian Redelinghuys

..doesn't look overly shabby and a lot of those guys have a right to feel hard done by. Someone is always going to be.

These aren't fringe squad players, they are literally not in the actual squad. And I havn't even considered injured players.

 

[nickdnz]

It just occurred to me that Bryan Habana will likely become the most capped winger of all time this Tri Nations...

 

[TRF_heineken]

It just occurred to me that Bryan Habana will likely become the most capped winger of all time this Tri Nations...

Yeah, and he has had some blinders in this tournament too...

 

[Bull]

Ai ja jai!

everyone has a guy they like or dislike, whether it is Pienaar, Hougaard, Reinach or Mcleod (man I hate that guy). But it doesn't matter, we are not the coach, and we have to accept who he picks. And I don't know why everyone has such a bee in their bonnet about Pienaar. He doesn't do that double step that hougaard does which puts the backline in all sorts of backfoot pressure. And with Pollard at 10 you will need an experienced guy at 9. Pienaar is just our most experienced scrumhalf in the squad without FdP, so let's leave it be. Also Pienaar hasn't done anything wrong in the tests he has played so far this year, so why punish the guy so much??

Am I not allowed to voice my displeasure about Pienaar being selected once again after he has never performed in the Bok jersey? He is at best a SR/HC player. This would have been the ideal time to give another player a chance as Argentina is the weakest of all the competition.