[2015 Six Nations] Italy vs Ireland (Round 1)

[munstermuffin]

Its time to agree to disagree here. I said calling me out not falling out, this isn't a soap!

what's your take on Zebo ahead of Earls/Fitz? I think both, particularly the former on the wing, bring more to the table. It's a clear indication that the kick chase will continue to be the be all and end all of the side.

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Its time to agree to disagree here. I said calling me out not falling out, this isn't a soap!

what's your take on Zebo ahead of Earls/Fitz? I think both, particularly the former on the wing, bring more to the table. It's a clear indication that the kick chase will continue to be the be all and end all of the side.

Regards Zebo. I think if people watch him he does bring an awful lot to the team and well facts are he scores alot more than Fitz from wing and Earls hasn't earned his spot yet. Also it's hard to say as Luke has been playing most of his ball since returning at 13 and rumbling I hear from people inside Leinster as well as Ireland are he wants to be a 13. And I can say he should be 13. He's playing great rugby and well in sticking with my belief of position swapping etc. Payne has only started playing well again at 15. His assets are in open field not 13.
So I think Zebo deserves to be there at moment on merit but he will also know he can't slip back in to bad habits as competition is red hot. But again the 3 have all been brilliant since returning but Zebo is only 1 who's being doing it on wing and took his chance in AI's. I personally think Luke Fitz is a better centre now and well has rebuilt his body for there.

 

[Jockstap]

Who gives a ****, you ain't winning the six nations ...and sorry to upset your play time, but u ain't winning the World Cup either, perhaps the local priest can soothe your disappointment..

LOL you're so silly

Good team but I'm worried about our back row, Murphy is a good player and has a big engine but the guy simply doesn't have the physical attributes for an international 8. Also SOB admitted last week that he blew up after 20 minutes, combine this with the fact that th Italians have a VERY good backrow we could be in trouble at the breakdown.

 

[Groundhog]

Who gives a ****, you ain't winning the six nations ...and sorry to upset your play time, but u ain't winning the World Cup either, perhaps the local priest can soothe your disappointment..

 

[munstermuffin]

LOL you're so silly

Good team but I'm worried about our back row, Murphy is a good player and has a big engine but the guy simply doesn't have the physical attributes for an international 8. Also SOB admitted last week that he blew up after 20 minutes, combine this with the fact that th Italians have a VERY good backrow we could be in trouble at the breakdown.

It may be possible that he has a role per say. People slated POM because he wasn't making x amount of tackles before but his role was to be like a mix of 6 and 7. It was clear to see reason he wasn't making as many was because he was being the an getting in on top straight after a tackle. I'm sure Jordi wll be ok at base of scrum and well rest is going to be contributed out as roles more than traditional 6 7 and 8.
Regards fitness I agree with you but in Henderson and TOD we have 2 guys who can come on and keep the battle going.

 

[Peat]

Murphy will be given a role to play suiting his abilities but to me, having Heaslip, or Ruddock, or Henry - or Henderson - and a bit of a rejig if needed would result in more talent being on the pitch. I don't think he's going to let anyone down but he's not a stand-out international, not yet at any rate.

 

[munstermuffin]

Murphy will be given a role to play suiting his abilities but to me, having Heaslip, or Ruddock, or Henry - or Henderson - and a bit of a rejig if needed would result in more talent being on the pitch. I don't think he's going to let anyone down but he's not a stand-out international, not yet at any rate.

Agree with all this. But unfortunately we don't have first 3 and Henderson is only back so needed for impact as well as covering lock

 

[bw245]

Murphy will be given a role to play suiting his abilities but to me, having Heaslip, or Ruddock, or Henry - or Henderson - and a bit of a rejig if needed would result in more talent being on the pitch. I don't think he's going to let anyone down but he's not a stand-out international, not yet at any rate.

Thankfully this set up is just for Italy. I'm not underestimating them, because they're going to be very tough, but it would have been worse to have this sort of set up with Wales or England. Murphy will be fine, and will be guided by those leaders around him in the back row.

 

[Peat]

Well yeah, agree with both of those statements.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Who has the best pack in the 6 nations if everyone is fit ? I would go Ireland when you have
1.Healy 2.Best 3.Moore 4.Toner 5.O'Connell 6.POM 7.SOB 8.Heaslip
That is a pack that can win a world cup with Schmidt in charge. Even Italy with their legendary status with packs can't compete and I think Ireland will win by 15 in Rome.

 

[big ginger 8]

I ****ing love this guy! Well my boy, seeing you is like getting my first armpit hair all over again.

That's a big week for you then!

This was named a while ago.

15. Andrea Masi
14. Leonardo Sarto
13. Michele Campagnaro
12. Luca Morisi
11. Luke McLean
10. Kelly Haimona
9. Edoardo Gori
1. Matias Aguero
2. Leonardo Ghiraldini
3. Martin Castrogiovanni
4. Josh Furno
5. George Biagi
6. Alessandro Zanni
7. Francesco Minto
8. Sergio Parisse (c)
Replacements:
16. Andrea Manici
17. Alberto De Marchi
18. Dario Chistolini
19. Marco Fuser
20. Robert Barbini
21. Guglielmo Palazzani
22. Tommaso Allan
23. Giovanbattista Venditti

For those who don't know Italy may have actually found an alright outhalf who's also listed as 107kg.

 

[ruggabee]

What's the point in having Boss in the 23?

 

[Every Time Ref]

Who has the best pack in the 6 nations if everyone is fit ? I would go Ireland when you have
1.Healy 2.Best 3.Moore 4.Toner 5.O'Connell 6.POM 7.SOB 8.Heaslip
That is a pack that can win a world cup with Schmidt in charge. Even Italy with their legendary status with packs can't compete and I think Ireland will win by 15 in Rome.

I agree with that. I think we have the best tight five, but that back row absolutely creams ours.

What's the view on Toner in Ireland? He's never really impressed me much when I've seen him, although I admit that isn't much.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I agree with that. I think we have the best tight five, but that back row absolutely creams ours.

What's the view on Toner in Ireland? He's never really impressed me much when I've seen him, although I admit that isn't much.

He's been fantastic the last 15 months, himself and O'Connell are a very strong partnership.

 

[munstermuffin]

I agree with that. I think we have the best tight five, but that back row absolutely creams ours.

What's the view on Toner in Ireland? He's never really impressed me much when I've seen him, although I admit that isn't much.

As a man that was 1 of his biggest critics I'd second what Cmac said. And add he's 1 of them he breezes through games and you wonder does he do anything but then you see stats and realise he does do a lot. Also he's a vital weapon in line out but if you watch closely he is a great asset when opposition 9 wants to box kick and he does get his hand out there to partially block a few

 

[SharksFan86]

Italy give a good game now and are tough but still massively lack quality, Ireland will no doubt win easily but try not to burn too much energy up or pick up injuries at same time.

 

[munstermuffin]

What's the point in having Boss in the 23?

I'm guessing it's.
Murray starts.
Reddan failed fitness test.
Marmion was poor last week and blew his shot.
Boss is a Schmidt away guy in that he's a physical player and type of guy Schmidt likes in these away games.
Luke McGrath I'd have hoped would have progressed more in his career by now.

 

[Hap]

That's a big week for you then!

This was named a while ago.

15. Andrea Masi
14. Leonardo Sarto
13. Michele Campagnaro
12. Luca Morisi
11. Luke McLean
10. Kelly Haimona
9. Edoardo Gori
1. Matias Aguero
2. Leonardo Ghiraldini
3. Martin Castrogiovanni
4. Josh Furno
5. George Biagi
6. Alessandro Zanni
7. Francesco Minto
8. Sergio Parisse (c)
Replacements:
16. Andrea Manici
17. Alberto De Marchi
18. Dario Chistolini
19. Marco Fuser
20. Robert Barbini
21. Guglielmo Palazzani
22. Tommaso Allan
23. Giovanbattista Venditti

For those who don't know Italy may have actually found an alright outhalf who's also listed as 107kg.

Haimona is still a huge (as you said, 107 Kg) question mark to me. He did very well in the November Tests but, since then, he didn't really impress with Zebre.
I hope he'll switch on Saturday afternoon.

 

[Every Time Ref]

As a man that was 1 of his biggest critics I'd second what Cmac said. And add he's 1 of them he breezes through games and you wonder does he do anything but then you see stats and realise he does do a lot. Also he's a vital weapon in line out but if you watch closely he is a great asset when opposition 9 wants to box kick and he does get his hand out there to partially block a few

OK I get that. Like I said, I haven't seen him in more than a handful of games and I don't tend to look at stats a lot so his "unsung hero" work could easily pass me by a bit. However, I do have the impression he has a high error count, someone who has moments of stupidity ... is this fair?

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Haimona is still a huge (as you said, 107 Kg) question mark to me. He did very well in the November Tests but, since then, he didn't really impress with Zebre.
I hope he'll switch on Saturday afternoon.

but wouldn't that be because he's play's 12 at zebre ? or is it since the November tests he has started playing more games at 10

 

[Hap]

Hi Scotty.
I've seen him both at 12 and 10 and he did best at 12.
In my opinion he's much more effective at 12 but what we need, as Italy, is at least a decent 10 and that's why he's there.

 

[big ginger 8]

OK I get that. Like I said, I haven't seen him in more than a handful of games and I don't tend to look at stats a lot so his "unsung hero" work could easily pass me by a bit. However, I do have the impression he has a high error count, someone who has moments of stupidity ... is this fair?

I'd say his error count is actually quite low.

He's guranteed lineout ball, can steal ball without jumping, is excellent at setting the maul, has the hands that people are always going on about the NZ forwards having and has an excellent workrate. Where he is now compared to about 2 years ago is incredible. He's probably our most underrated player. Although he's probably not helped by his frame in terms of people's perception. His height can still negatively effect him in the scrum and when rucking at times though.

 

[collace]

While I have come to appreciate the qualities of Toner over the last year I do think that by the time the World Cup comes around Henderson will have displaced him in the second row. Henderson just brings an element of physicality which I don't think Toner possesses - I would say him breakdown work, tackling and carrying are superior to what I have seen from Toner although Toner does offer more around the set piece.

Ideally I would be seeing Henderson at 6 but I think he's earmarked for the second row due to the limited options there.

 

[munstermuffin]

While I have come to appreciate the qualities of Toner over the last year I do think that by the time the World Cup comes around Henderson will have displaced him in the second row. Henderson just brings an element of physicality which I don't think Toner possesses - I would say him breakdown work, tackling and carrying are superior to what I have seen from Toner although Toner does offer more around the set piece.

Ideally I would be seeing Henderson at 6 but I think he's earmarked for the second row due to the limited options there.

I think the more natural thing that will start to happen is you'll see Paulie replaced during games and the gradual transition. Donnacha Ryan will be back soon too and that battle will be huge for 2nd row too.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I'd say his error count is actually quite low.

He's guranteed lineout ball, can steal ball without jumping, is excellent at setting the maul, has the hands that people are always going on about the NZ forwards having and has an excellent workrate. Where he is now compared to about 2 years ago is incredible. He's probably our most underrated player. Although he's probably not helped by his frame in terms of people's perception. His height can still negatively effect him in the scrum and when rucking at times though.

I agree with that, it did occur to me that his mistakes stand out a bit more just because he looks so ****ing ungainly. Somehow a missed tackle looks worse from a gangly daddy long legs, you know?

All the same, somehow he just doesn't look international class to me.

 

[Peat]

I used to think someone would have replaced Toner by now a year ago but now I see him being a fixture until he retires, close enough.

 

[ruggabee]

I'm guessing it's.
Murray starts.
Reddan failed fitness test.
Marmion was poor last week and blew his shot.
Boss is a Schmidt away guy in that he's a physical player and type of guy Schmidt likes in these away games.
Luke McGrath I'd have hoped would have progressed more in his career by now.

Mm. But for someone as young as Marmion with the season he has had I would've liked him to get some more game time off the bench.

 

[munstermuffin]

Mm. But for someone as young as Marmion with the season he has had I would've liked him to get some more game time off the bench.

While I agree with you. It was pointed out to me that Marmion has had a good few chances in front of Schmidt in camp and in Irish games and not done well at all. Add this with the fact Murray has been injured and I can understand Schmidt making that call. I agree Marmion has been exceptional for Connacht and no doubt will be an international star. I just think when you consider all other factors you can see why Boss was selected. We have a novice at 8 and at 10. A centre pairing that are new and still not gelled as partnership. And our best 9 is only back so I'm presuming all these played a part.

 

[Peat]

Would love to hear Schmidt's thoughts on Marmion sometime but there's no doubt he's just not that impressed by him. Not sure my money's on him turning that around tbh, guess Schmidt might run out of choices but...

 

[ruggabee]

While I agree with you. It was pointed out to me that Marmion has had a good few chances in front of Schmidt in camp and in Irish games and not done well at all. Add this with the fact Murray has been injured and I can understand Schmidt making that call. I agree Marmion has been exceptional for Connacht and no doubt will be an international star. I just think when you consider all other factors you can see why Boss was selected. We have a novice at 8 and at 10. A centre pairing that are new and still not gelled as partnership. And our best 9 is only back so I'm presuming all these played a part.

Yeah I can see where Schmidt is going considering the lack of experience. However sometimes I find that the experience card gets used with too much significance, for example, I'm not sure where Boss puts his experience into action. Either way, we should win, and it won't be long till Boss and Reddan will decline further or retire. Hopefully by then Marmion is producing what Schmidt believes he's missing. Or even better, we produce another world class 9.

 

[bw245]

Just under 3 hours to go. Getting excited. It's not often I want Italy to lose as I speak Italian and Italy is like my second home, but today is an exception. COYBIG