[2016 Rugby Championship] Argentina vs New Zealand (02/10/2016)

[nzlizard]

I reckon Lienert-Brown was outstanding in that game, surely he has to start again next week to see if he can back it up.

Great 1st half by the AB's, second was not so good, but they held on and played real well with 14 men.

If I was an Argentina fan I would be really embarrassed by the behavior of some of their players, eps Sanchez and that #19 at the end, any little hit they took they tried to milk it for everything, such pathetic actions from players. #19 took a tap from Dixon and fell over like a pathetic little school boy.

 

[RoosTah]

Great first half from the ABs but man that second half was hard to watch... lots of ref interruptions, poor handling and generally lacking fluidity.

 

[petite]

So Argentina win................................the second half.

at least this puts an end to the last 20 minutes patholgy

 

[KeyboardWorrier]

It's no myth, the ABs always perform better in the last twenty. What happened in this match isn't indicative of every other match... this was very unusual.

 

[squirrel]

Quite funny hearing that diego complaining about his testicles being grabbed by Savea, something i hadnt heard before in a live game.

 

[smartcooky]

Quite funny hearing that diego complaining about his testicles being grabbed by Savea, something i hadnt heard before in a live game.

Hah, thats funny coming from a poster with your username!!

at least this puts an end to the last 20 minutes patholgy

I agree, you just need to worry about the last 10 minutes of the first half now!

I reckon Lienert-Brown was outstanding in that game, surely he has to start again next week to see if he can back it up.

He was a good as Damien McKenzie was woeful.

McKenzie missed tackles (three that I saw) and was constantly out of position; on one occasion leading to Argentina's second try. Not impressed!

 

[bazwaz]

at least this puts an end to the last 20 minutes patholgy

...nine changes to the team and still a comfortable win regardless...that is the luxury of having such great depth... although rotating the squad may have impacted on the score board short term , long term we will be better off having rested some players and blooded others - you have to look at the big picture my friends...

 

[petite]

...nine changes to the team and still a comfortable win regardless...that is the luxury of having such great depth... although rotating the squad may have impacted on the score board short term , long term we will be better off having rested some players and blooded others - you have to look at the big picture my friends...

I was talking about the pumas last 20 not the abs.
rest players for what? the show is over.
I remember kiwis bragging about having to play to your selves to find real adversaries. now it's 9 changes...
we lost this game on our own stupidity. like that ball creepy gave away from the line out or that bad kick, the abs where bellow their standard tonight

- - - Updated - - -

It's no myth, the ABs always perform better in the last twenty. What happened in this match isn't indicative of every other match... this was very unusual.

I said pathology not myth and ment pumas last 20.. we always seem to choke on The last 20 and wasn't the case today. it was the best minutes of the team

 

[nzlizard]

we lost this game on our own stupidity. like that ball creepy gave away from the line out. the abs where bellow their standard tonight

I'm calling BS, sure you made a couple of mistakes but it was Reads vision that saw what was happening, I thought Argentina played well in the 1st half but that 15 minutes window where the AB"s stepped it up, you guys couldn't complete.

I said pathology not myth and ment pumas last 20.. we always seem to choke on The last 20 and wasn't the case today. it was the best minutes of the team

Argentina played average in that period where we had a man off for almost 20 minutes, in all honesty though they should have scored more points, all that scrum work for 1 try is pretty average at this level.

I don't think choke it he word either, its conditioning, as above 15 men on 14, Moody was binned at the 52nd min and Squire at the 65th, that is a long period of time yet you only scored 7 points in that period, pretty sure the last try came when the AB's had 15 men on the field.

 

[bazwaz]

...resting players injured or otherwise and blooding new players call it rotation or succession planning I don't care...don't all countries have succession planning or is it just us ...?
..and it's not all over we still have to play SA next week so one of the biggest games for us given our history against SA...

..what I have trouble understanding is how Argentina can play well one week and then in Super Rugby they are completely useless...people are saying it's them throwing games call it match fixing if you like...say it isn't so..

 

[TheOvalBall]

Quite funny hearing that diego complaining about his testicles being grabbed by Savea, something i hadnt heard before in a live game.

There was an incident like that involving Adriaan Strauss and a Samoa player a few years back, Boks vs Samoa match.

 

[The Jones Boy]

The Argentine chaps on here said that the agars have a different coach to the national team, and that makes a world of difference.
Look at England under Lancaster and England under Jones.

The AB's were below average against the Pumas, but how much of that was youth in the team, how much of that was the changes in the line up and how much of that was travelling?
I think the biggest factor was the Pumas, they are not to be trifled with and they are really starting to become a force at the top level.
They put a lot of pressure on and there is the key.
ANY team put under pressure will make mistakes and our beloved AB's are no different. The Pumas played some strong rugby.
Sure they have work to do but the signs are very good for them.

I feel sorry for young Mackenzie, he had a big hype on here before he got a run and if that is how he plays then you can send him back to the Waikato to stay there, forever please, he was woefully out of his league, it was ugly to watch.

 

[smartcooky]

I have to say I was very impressed with how Crotty and Lienert-Brown paired up in midfield. It was like they have played together for a few seasons.

Lienert-Brown

Attacking
Passes 13
Runs (Metres) 11 (54)
Clean Breaks 1
Defenders Beaten 1
Offloads 5
Tries Scored 1

Defending
Turnovers conceded 1
Tackles made (missed) 3 (1)


Crotty

Attacking
Passes 8
Runs (Metres) 4 (58)
Clean Breaks 2
Defenders Beaten 2
Offloads 0
Tries scored 1

Defending
Turnovers Concede 0
Tackles Made (missed) 5 (0)

That is a pretty good day at the office for a new midfield combination

 

[nzlizard]

Yeah was really impressed with that combo, saw a couple of things from Crotty that we haven't seen either, would like to see this combo again in SA.

 

[nik]

Julian Savea needs to learn how to fend. Bombed a try in the end with the ball in the wrong arm. Needs to learn from Corey Jane, he had pretty good fend that would allow him cleanly push away the opponent and score or at least keep the ball alive.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I worry about Lienert-Brown on defence against the Bokke.
He doesn't have the presence I would expect from a pocket battleship like Fekitoa or Moala.
It's a dangerous option when the unbroken run of victories record is on the line.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Well for any of those who say England are the ones to have a chance agains the ABs, we don't unless things change drastically for England. The ABs are firing on a level well above anyone else at the moment and this AB side will tear England apart just like everyone else. Hell they have practically broken the ranking system by getting no points in most of the games they play. Ultimately the longer teams ignore the lessons the ABs learn, the longer there will be no competition. Fast recycling, short popped passes just before contact, offloading and a drive in contact are what seperate the ABs from everyone else, nobody does all of those.

People look at British cycling as an example of dominance but there is the sense that that will at least end at some point, there isn't a sense that the AB dominance will end as other teams are just too far behind to even compete, let alone win.

 

[FNS]

Well again, Pumas are pumas worst enemy.

I was watching the game with someone that never watched Pumas and i told them we can be the best or the worst all in a 20 min frame.

 

[Larksea]

He was a good as Damien McKenzie was woeful.

McKenzie missed tackles (three that I saw) and was constantly out of position; on one occasion leading to Argentina's second try. Not impressed!

Harsh, a couple he missed at least he stopped the players momentum so others could easily clean up, worth noting that a LOT of all blacks missed tackles in that last 30min. He made some good tackles including one try saver and he should have had a nice try assist if Savea didn't butcher the finish.

Not bad considering the 30min he was on was probably the most pressure the All Blacks have been under since the finals game against SA at the World Cup and 20 of those minutes the All Blacks were down to 14 men. Not many players get an introduction to test football like that, all things considered he did fine.

The talking point has to be ALB again

one try and 3 assists? Some brilliant work around the park, that was some performance.

Some tough selection decisions to make now, I think ALB has done more with the couple of chances he has had than Fekitoa has done in the last 2 years. The ball has been dying with Fekitoa on attack, its amazing what a difference it makes having a player at 13 who makes good decisions, has a good skillset and genuine attacking talent. The one area Fekitoa has been good and shown improvement in is defense. But that is an area ALB will surely improve in its not like he has been weak in that area.

I thought Tuipulotu was superb, he added that physical edge to the defense that Kaino usually brings. I hope this performance clearly establishes him as our #3 lock again, he is a good option to have on the field when some extra physical presence is required.

Much more so than Squire who did ok but you have to say neither Squire or Dixon have done anything to help cement their position in the squad. I still think Ioane & Shields are banging the door down, Squire & Dixon dont have the luxury of taking their time to get up to speed at test footy. Ioane will surely make an impact in his first test and I think shields has grown to the point where he would just slot straight into test footy as well. Squire is still low on top level experience and Dixon is really there on the back of a blistering 2015 which set a standard hes struggled to maintain. Brad Shields has been building and improving his game constantly for 3 years or so to the point where hes just good every week...

Retalick has been phenomenal this year. Another massive game.

Moody, silly swinging arm. Not dangerous, Coles, Franks and now Moody as well have all been baited into doing silly crap now. They need to get on top of their discipline seriously now. Ive said it before many times, with the AB's being so strong opposition teams are going to do their best to bait us into giving away cards as a tactic to level the playing field. Discipline is critical.

Lastly I think Perenara is worthy of a mention, hes different to smith but he clearly looks like he can lead the AB backline out there the same way Smith does, not just be a backup guy. And wow some of his ball clearing was fast. Clearly an area TKB needs to work on he was seriously slow in comparison. He has an extra physical presence on the field around the rucks. And managed another critical strip off Creevy!

I kinda expected the 2nd half to go as it did. Argentina would have surely been given a serious grilling at half time. They weren't going to stand back and let the AB's keep running through them.

The game got really messy, the refereeing was very poor. I enjoy watching Argentina play but what I really hate is the constant Hollywooding. Playing injured, dramatic bull crap that you usually see on a football field. players down injured looking like they are screaming for a priest and reacting like they have something serious to the point a stretcher gets taken onto the field... then a few minutes later when they either have or haven't gotten the attention they were looking for from the ref and a big screen replay they are back in position and look fine. IMO that crap is not in the spirit of rugby, I feel like I'm watching a football match.

 

[nzlizard]

I enjoy watching Argentina play but what I really hate is the constant Hollywooding. Playing injured, dramatic bull crap that you usually see on a football field. players down injured looking like they are screaming for a priest and reacting like they have something serious to the point a stretcher gets taken onto the field... then a few minutes later when they either have or haven't gotten the attention they were looking for from the ref and a big screen replay they are back in position and look fine. IMO that crap is not in the spirit of rugby, I feel like I'm watching a football match.

Yeah I always enjoy watching Argentina play as well but that hollywood **** is just embarrassing, there fans must be gutted, gone from being hard men to acting like pussies on the field.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I think Argentina (and Jaguares) are obsessed by their perception that they get yellow cards for offences that other teams will at most give away a penalty. I think that is a major factor behind any playacting they do. Hopefully they put an end to it soon as it does them no favours and their obsession with equal treatment seems to break their concentration some times.

 

[smartcooky]

I'm not really concerned about the way the game stalled in the second half. We were on track to score more tries until we lost a player to the bin, and then another almost as soon as the first binned player came back on. We have clearly seen all year that the All Blacks game plan is go into defensive mode when they lose a player to the bin, keeping possession of the ball, sliding defence, extra support at the breakdown and less offloads in contact.

Since they were down to 14 players most of the last half of the second half, its not surprising it all got a bit static. Larksea is right about the discipline angle, they have to stop giving away those dumb and unnecessary penalties.

 

[Larksea]

From a development point of view it was good that a bunch of new guys like Taylor, ALB, MaK & Tuipulotu were in the thick of those last 30min. Got to expose them to the Brunt of how tough test footy can get, though we were never in any threat of losing the game in general the team still played like they weren't willing to give anything away. Its easy in those situations when you have a good advantage on the scoreboard just to slack off let a try in go back to halfway and try again. Ofa too, he came on for Franks right hard on defense and did pretty well.

 

[nik]

I hope the ABs continue to blood new players this year. The ABs need to make most of the low quality of opposition. There's no point beating the opposition by 50 points with a full strength team. The competition will definitely get better and the gap will close come next RWC in 2019. Most teams are working towards that as a goal. For the ABs, this 4 year cycle is different to the last one due to B&I tour. I am sure at the end of 2017 there will be some player movement. Big money is being offered by NH clubs so retaining some players post B&I will be a challenge for NZRU.