[2024 Six Nations] England vs Ireland - 09/03/24

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Feels like a positive sign - we actually have attacking moves - which will be a first under Borthwick.
I wonder if the rest of the backs know what they are, or if it's just the FHs

Saving those moves for the world cup maaaaate, don't want to show out hand to early maaaate.

You just don't get footie maaaate.

 

[ageingback23]

People were saying this last 6N tbf

I'm still really sceptical on this 18months to learn how to do a blitz defence thing - did it take the Boks that long because they had to completely change their system? Cause England had a blitz before Jones, half the clubs in England use a blitz, the Lions used a blitz etc.

I'm just going off what the defence coach said in a statement. Apparently it took him 14 games to get SA up the right level with his blitz defence system and they lost half of those.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Article in the Times showing Ford and M Smith with attacking call details literally written on the back of their hands to help in training.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm just going off what the defence coach said in a statement. Apparently it took him 14 games to get SA up the right level with his blitz defence system and they lost half of those.

It was the Boks head coach that said it, and I just can't work out why - only thing I can think of is that the players had not worked under a blitz before so needed to get used to that, which isn't an issue with the English players

 

[ageingback23]

The last sentence is why people are broadly unhappy. I can't see any facet of our game that has improved under SB. SB said himself that under EJ we weren't particularly good at anything. The same can be said now
Nobody is seeing any incremental improvements. Very good players continue to play at a level significantly below their best

Personally I think there had been improvement game on game with the defence. Yes we lost to Scotland, but not because they manage to effectively breach our defence, but because we gave them the ball 22 times! When they had control of the ball they couldn't do anything with it. Compare that to the first game where the Italians were carving holes for fun for much of the game.
The attack is bloody dire though, and sadly I can't see that changing under SB. He's just not the man to lead the kind of talent we have on the pitch. He's clearly shackles them, and knocks their confidence to play instinctively.

But I do understand that with all England resources, depth, etc. we should be looking a lot more settled by now. Personally I'm willing to give SB until the end of the AIs to pull it all together. If it isn't working come then; he needs to be replaced.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Neinaber said the same about Leinster, 12-14 games, and has since said he wished he didn't put a number on it because it takes longer with guys coming in and out of the squad on international duty. It took Farrell about 14-15 games with Ireland too before a marked improvement could be seen. There's no quick fix in international rugby but Borthwick is coming towards the end of his grace period.

 

[Saintjay]

Personally I think there had been improvement game on game with the defence. Yes we lost to Scotland, but not because they manage to effectively breach our defence, but because we gave them the ball 22 times! When they had control of the ball they couldn't do anything with it. Compare that to the first game where the Italians were carving holes for fun for much of the game.
The attack is bloody dire though, and sadly I can't see that changing under SB. He's just not the man to lead the kind of talent we have on the pitch. He's clearly shackles them, and knocks their confidence to play instinctively.

But I do understand that with all England resources, depth, etc. we should be looking a lot more settled by now. Personally I'm willing to give SB until the end of the AIs to pull it all together. If it isn't working come then; he needs to be replaced.

Between now and the end of the AI's we could be looking at one win against Japan. That leaves the next six nations to judge where we are at. If it's same old then we really do have a problem. Two years out from a RWC and a new manager with the same excuses as SB. New squad, we are building, two years isn't long enough yada yada.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Feels like a positive sign - we actually have attacking moves - which will be a first under Borthwick.
I wonder if the rest of the backs know what they are, or if it's just the FHs

There were about 6 of them. If I read them right they were:

Kick high
Kick long
Kick high and long
Kick high and long and chase
Kick short and stall momentum and
Kick aimlessly

Eyesight's not what it was though.

There was a number attached to each - 6, 7 or 8 which apparently represents the number in the attacking line out from which the move would be run.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

You'd hope so. England get away with far too much from referees.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

England get away with far too much from referees.

 

[Saintjay]

You'd hope so. England get away with far too much from referees.

So Wales have Squidge Rugby, Ireland now have slightly more qualified pound shop squidge rugby.

 

[TommiG88]

England need Ireland to 'go down to 14 or 13'

Ireland must be reduced to "14 or 13 players" in order for England to win Saturday's Six Nations game says ex-Irish number eight Jamie Heaslip.

www.bbc.co.uk

I didn't realise Heaslip was English

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

View attachment 19267

Anyone know how to gut an Olyyfish?

So Wales have Squidge Rugby, Ireland now have slightly more qualified pound shop squidge rugby.

Igoe posts a lot of good clips and shows how teams create mismatches to break down defences and stuff like that, but he's never pointed out the precise angle that Robbie Henshaw entered a ruck against Italy and explained why that catapulted Ireland to world number 1 last year so I wouldn't put him at the same level as Squidge.

 

[Wasps92]

If we get hammered and it's another nail in Borthwick's coffin then it's a price worth paying.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Full attendance at training today for us. Keenan and Ringrose back in the mix.

 

[Smurfy]

Full attendance at training today for us. Keenan and Ringrose back in the mix.

Keenan would be a huge boost, but his availability would probably mean Ringrose losing out to Frawley on the bench if Farrell goes 6/2. We've really come a long way if Ringrose can't make the 23.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Keenan would be a huge boost, but his availability would probably mean Ringrose losing out to Frawley on the bench if Farrell goes 6/2. We've really come a long way if Ringrose can't make the 23.

It's a nice place to be. I think Ringrose starting with either a 5/3 or 6/2 is the way to go and try to figure out who between Henshaw, Baird and Conan can be left out. But any way you look at it a top international standard player is being left out, world class if it's either centre.

 

[Smurfy]

I'm not sure he'll drop Henshaw who seems to be on the best run of form since the Lions in 2021. I think Ringrose has the better defensive brain but Henshaw has the edge in attack in his current form, especially with his physicality. I have no doubt Farrell will make the right choice for the team.

 

[Saintjay]

Ireland all fit and firing. Steve Borthwick hold my beer.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So that's at least Mitchell and the Smiths (heaven knows they must be miserable now….) all ruled out of matches through training injuries. What's going on? Others?

Underhill, Lawrence, probably Martin and M Smith will all have come direct into the side (or 23) at various times after injury without any meaningful rugby too.