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A great big Munster thread

Maybe better to respond to the doping debate here rather than sidetrack the Ireland thread.




Can understand both your points of view. The media storm has come out of nowhere and seems like a witch hunt.

Looking at it coldly, Gerbrandt Grobler has served his ban for a stupid mistake and should be allowed rehabilitate his career. As stated in July, I bear no ill will towards him and if he plays, I hope he performs well.

My issue is the message it sends. Here's a young player who has cheated to increase him muscle mass. Despite being banned for two years, he's still benefitting by maintaining that illegally obtained muscle mass today. Is that right? Should the IRFU condone this because, in essence, that's what they did by ratifying the signature.

@Groundhog's point that he wouldn't have come on the radar had Leinster signed him rings partially true. Nobody noticed when Racing Metro signed him. Look at the reaction towards Maria Sharapova, another convicted cheat. She's cheered wherever she goes. Nobody cares about the multiple dopers in the NFL and MLB. A lot of people say they despise doping yet turn a blind eye when it helps whoever they support.

My feeling is that Munster won't pick him due to the media sh*tstorm. If he's offered a contract elsewhere, he may be allowed go with immediate effect. If he plays for Munster, it'll only be during the 6 Nations window when rugby media interests are elsewhere.
You're making points I agree with fully. It should not be condoned by the IRFU, and its not a trend I'd like to see continued, especially given the indications that steroids leave a residual effect on athletes, but I simply feel that the coverage attacking Munster is the lowest of low hanging fruit, because I feel Grobler is far from an outlier and it doesn't actually focus on the avenue of doping in the sport and just turns into a Munster story. If they wanted to focus on active doping and do some actual journalism, that would be commendable. For instance, Jonny Holland did an outstanding AMA on Boards today, and one of the biggest things that stood out to me was him saying he was never tested for doping even during his injury (when many players, including Grobler feel the need to pack on weight), and that he rarely knew non internationals to get tested at all. He also stated that if you were doping at international level, it was too late. For me, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, because the relatively lax doping measures in rugby mean that there's certainly dopers within Irish rugby. I don't fall on the Kimmage line of it being systemic, but a guy who's served his ban as injury cover is just distracting from the point these journalists are trying to tiptoe around.
 
You're making points I agree with fully. It should not be condoned by the IRFU, and its not a trend I'd like to see continued, especially given the indications that steroids leave a residual effect on athletes, but I simply feel that the coverage attacking Munster is the lowest of low hanging fruit, because I feel Grobler is far from an outlier and it doesn't actually focus on the avenue of doping in the sport and just turns into a Munster story. If they wanted to focus on active doping and do some actual journalism, that would be commendable. For instance, Jonny Holland did an outstanding AMA on Boards today, and one of the biggest things that stood out to me was him saying he was never tested for doping even during his injury (when many players, including Grobler feel the need to pack on weight), and that he rarely knew non internationals to get tested at all. He also stated that if you were doping at international level, it was too late. For me, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, because the relatively lax doping measures in rugby mean that there's certainly dopers within Irish rugby. I don't fall on the Kimmage line of it being systemic, but a guy who's served his ban as injury cover is just distracting from the point these journalists are trying to tiptoe around.

You just copied the bit I pointed out to you.
 
Anybody read Donncha O'Callaghan's piece in the Times today? Can't link to it because it's behind a paywall. Can get the gist of it from RugbyLad but don't want to link to that site! It's a well thought out and reasoned opinion on the Gerbrandt Grobler story. I like it because it's pretty much what I think!
 
Anybody read Donncha O'Callaghan's piece in the Times today? Can't link to it because it's behind a paywall. Can get the gist of it from RugbyLad but don't want to link to that site! It's a well thought out and reasoned opinion on the Gerbrandt Grobler story. I like it because it's pretty much what I think!
Had a read today. It's very fair and honest. It's very well debated constructed and fairly put. It was a pity the original attack wasn't like that and in 1 way the reporter and style became the news more than topic
 
I don't mind the likes of Off The Ball making an issue of it as they've always been strongly anti-doping and have gone on about it at length before when it's come up in other sports but for the likes of Kimmage to sanctimoniously lecture on about it is the height of hypocrisy.

On the other hand, it likely won't happen again so you could argue that the whole media furore was justified and served its purpose. It did become a game if oneupmanship at the end though as everyone trued to show that they were more disgusted than the last person.
 
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Munster Rugby and the IRFU can confirm that Sammy Arnold, Darren O'Shea, Conor Oliver and Dan Goggin have signed two-year contracts that will see them remain with the province until June 2020.

https://munsterrugby.ie/2018/02/02/player-contract-update-2/
 
They're four good players to tie down. Goggin and O'Shea are useful depth. Arnold and Oliver can contend for a full strength 23 man squad.
 
Andrew Conway has sealed his 2 year deal with us. And Stephen Fitzgearld signing extension too
 
Cloete out for the season. Big loss or replaceable with TOD back?
Not the end of the world, but there's an obvious step down from that 5"9 brick shithouse to our other options. Will give Oliver a bit more time too. He's undersized but yet to have a bad game for us to my memory.
 
Farrell reportedly has done his ACL, gutted for him after his career performance. The big winners of the 6n look to be the French clubs and Sarries so far!
 
Cloete is a massive loss. Of all the disruptions and changes this year, bringing Cloete into our back row was yielding the most results. He's a great jackal over the ball and made every breakdown dangerous for the opposition. I'm a fan of TOD, but he doesn't bring that same ability. I was expecting him to start slotting in at 6 as cover for POM later this year, as that might be a more natural position for him at the moment. I rate Conor Oliver very highly, I think he's got a massive future ahead of him. With Cloete out, I'd like to see him start some of our big upcoming games, to try and prove himself.

Farrell being gone is a downer too. He had a rocky start to the season, and now that he's started to catch a run of form, suddenly his season might be over. It's rough. I'm not sure what Taute's status is, but it would be great if we could get him back soon to plug that gap at centre. He was one of our best players last year and a real defensive linchpin. We could really do with some positive news on the injury front right now. If we lose any more big names, I can't see us going any further in the Champions Cup. Another Pro14 final wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility, but I can't see Munster winning the whole thing without our best players getting some game time together first.
 
Jack Taute may be on track to be fit for Toulon game but more realistic target is South Africa tour but Sammy Arnold has never let us down to be fair either. Leicester game was big part down to him
 
Massive loss but TOD has the experience to cause damage and Oliver could be a gem too.
Cloete is massive loss but needs rest he has played non stop since Dec 2016


Will we see Gavin Coombes before the end of the season?
 
Munster need to get Jack O'Sullivan a lot of game time next season at 8. He's been outstanding for the u20s. Nothing against Jack O'Donoghue but O'Sullivan looks to have a higher ceiling.
 
Munster need to get Jack O'Sullivan a lot of game time next season at 8. He's been outstanding for the u20s. Nothing against Jack O'Donoghue but O'Sullivan looks to have a higher ceiling.
Both will get plenty of time. Especially given Copeland going and CJ obviously on IRFU welfare. Jacko is really improved but has covered 6. 2 very different types though
 
O'Donoghue seems like more of a bruiser in the CJ Stander mould. O'Sullivan is more of a footballer like Jamie Heaslip. Great to have such options.
 

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