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A look ahead: the 2014 Six Nations

A look ahead: the 2014 Six Nations

Interesting article, summarizing the situation well:
No clear winner ahead of Six Nations

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3820_9053707,00.html



Now that the EOYT is definitively over, who've you got for the 2014 6N and why ?

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same usual twaddle about the french team. You could copy paste that article and change the dates at the start of every season. And no Guitoune wont save the french team. Theres nothing about where each team currently stands based on FORM.
i see Eng & Wales they are strong favourites this year again. I can see Italy doing a number on Fra this year in Paris, its coming...
Ireland could also spoil the party and beat one of the big 3.
 
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France is likely putting a big total on Italy this year. Italy ain't playing like they did last year in Rome. In fact, they possibly NEVER played like that in their history, at very least not in 6N history that's for sure. Not like that, and not for 80. And France will be on the rise this year. Last year we weren't nearly awful for 80, but had awful results ultimately. Italy are in for quite a trip to Paris, no doubt.
Plus, we actually have decent preparation time this time.
You're quite a typical French fan, ehm...FrenchFan.. ! Pessimism almighty is the modus operandi (man, what a rhyme....). Yeh and you can take that predicted Italian win in Paris of yours and...well, just put it in a drawer.

England won't win I think, they're always "good but good isn't enough" is the formula I'd attribute to them.
I think it's Wales and possibly France that have the upper hand, with Ireland in for a ***le nobody saw coming possibly.
 
Hell no im definitely not your typical french fan. Im neither pessimistic nor optimistic. Im in between, leaning on the realist side. Thats what i was saying in my post. The article makes no attempt to assess the french team on its current form. Im looking at where the team is now, not where you would like to see it. And right now, they have only beaten Tonga and Scotland this season.

Italy are the most improved side in the 6N. You're a historian of the game. Good for you. Weve never lost 2 games in Rome in a row ever before. Theyre improving, were not. They could very well run us close in Paris and maybe win it. Eng have a good record in Paris. I personally thing Eng will win in Paris.

just exactly how much rugby are you playing or watching in Qatar??
 
and about the recent clubs vs federation agreement you mentioned in another thread. Its the tree that hides the forest. It does NOT satisfy anyone, neither SA (Saint Andre) nor the clubs. You should read what the Toulon president thinks of it. In an interview in l'Equipe he has threatened not to relase his french internationals in the future. Its not just provocation. We're talking about a rehash of some mickey mouse agreement btw people with vastly different agendas who speak a different language (in sport & business terms I mean). If anything the gulf has been widening btw clubs and Federation. How this is supposed to have a positive impact on the french team, well, your guess is as good as mine, because its essentially an agreement that validates the current stalemate btw the 2 parties. It doesn't move anything forward.
 
lol why the angry tone ?! :lol:

OF COURSE Italy are the most improved side in the 6N globally, there's no way but up for them, and I don't know how much Rugby you watch in.....wherever, but despite beating France and Ireland to start the year, they haven't exactly been a side on the rise recently or been impressive in any sort of possible measure.

I'm not a historian of the game, I'm just telling you Italy will suffer in Paris this year, maybe I'm wrong, we'll see. They've been playing like utter caca as of.....the past 6 months, complete crap, like, totally undeserving of the Tier 1 label, and France will be a lot more focused and a bit more prepared this year. Plus Italy suck on the road, and France has a revenge to take on their "little brothers". What in the world makes you think they'll get that form from last year back in Paris this year ? I think they're in for some punishment personally.

We've struggled almost this whole post-RWC period, nobody doubts that, but we're solidifying our core and faces are finally starting to reoccur in a stable fashion. As for the new ones, Slimani is a nice prospect to play front row right while Guitoune is as fantastic in a Bleus shirt as he is in an USAP one.

At 9, Parra is down, but we've got Machenaud who's meh and Doussain who's very solid and will only develop, if not Pélissié who is, huh, talk about promising.

Throughout, the rest of the squad is world class with no exception, and we've got depth like a Tyrannosaurus Rex's vagina.

The Tonga game was meh but we've got to be happy with 4 tries and 40 points, while the NZ game was very very good and the SA wasn't too bad, especially considering how little we had going on on attack and still managed 10-19. No cohesion, and our guys one by one would try to play hero-ball each time...

So I think the fact that we've got familiar faces, have improved in some aspects, have consistently shown excellent defense this whole year...I think we can now expect for our guys to build good chemistry, and with more time on our hands, surely we can go back to scoring some good team tries.
I don't see France being as saturated offensively this coming 2014 year as they've been this past year. With the back-line and power up front we've got, tries are bound to fall eventually.
I'm just very curious to see if more time together pays immediate dividends...hopefully, sit back and find out ! :cool:

P.S.: the FFR-LNR agreement, I don't know if it "doesn't move anything forward" but obviously it poses a number of problems and isn't viable for all eternity. But whatever the future "final" agreement to come, we clearly, clearly need both more time for our guys to mesh AND need them to be fresh, at least as fresh as other European and SH national sides.
And Boudjelal can engulf upon my penis.
 
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no anger here. You are reading too much into my thread.

i watch and coach rugby (youth team) in France, what about you? u didn't answer my question

you say that Italy have not been on the rise or impressive. Have France been either? they have not. Italy may lose in Paris, they may not win the 6N, granted, but in my view, they remain the most improved team in the 6N. We have been going backwards since the last WC.

the scoreline agst SA was very flattering for us. 2 SA tries were denied dont forget. One of them is perfectly valid, even my 8,5 yo could see it (he plays rugby, I still dont know if you do). We were out muscled in the scrum and in 90% of rucks.And Parra gifted them with the first try. We've only beaten Tonga this autumn. What the AI showed was that we are not at the same level as NZ & SA. Sorry it is what it is.

the rest of the french squad is not world class. We dont have 15 world class tacklers like SA & NZ for starters. Our jeu au pied is seriously lacking. The 2 AB tries were scored after 2 poor kicks back to them. Typical. Again, it is what is...

im not sure what your 'more time together' refers to. They are not spending enough time together to build the squad thats necessary to have a right go at the next WC. Its a selection not a team. Ive played in both, and its not the same thing.

we need more Presidents like Boudjelal, did you see what Toulon was like before he arrived? I bet you didnt. Have you been to La Rade and asked the Toulon diehards of today how many would want to go back to what Toulon was like before the president arrived. You dont need to answer that one :)))
 
FrenchFan said:
no anger here. You are reading too much into my thread.
OK
i watch and coach rugby (youth team) in France, what about you? u didn't answer my question
I sit my butt on my couch and read, watch and discuss Rugby online and occasionally in real life.

you say that Italy have not been on the rise or impressive. Have France been either? they have not. Italy may lose in Paris, they may not win the 6N, granted, but in my view, they remain the most improved team in the 6N. We have been going backwards since the last WC.
yeah but wait a second here, let's not make this confusing.
In all clarity: France hasn't been impressive last year, yeah, but France has taken the eventually invincible All-Blacks to 3 out of 4 very competitive tests, 2 of which were absolutely within reach for a win, more recently played a competitive game against South Africa.
Italy's best game recently is a 37-31 won over a 12-man Fiji team at home; a 50-point pounding by AUS and another home loss to a struggling Argie side that lost by 20 in Twickers and 30 in Cardiff.

the scoreline agst SA was very flattering for us. 2 SA tries were denied dont forget. One of them is perfectly valid, even my 8,5 yo could see it (he plays rugby, I still dont know if you do). We were out muscled in the scrum and in 90% of rucks.And Parra gifted them with the first try. We've only beaten Tonga this autumn. What the AI showed was that we are not at the same level as NZ & SA. Sorry it is what it is.
Never played, nope. Played basketball all my adolescance. Well all the same about the SA test, we could mention Huget beating the whole defense and getting the most unlucky bounce of his career, and the one try we DID score , though off broken play, was well managed. The only valid try they got was off Parra's ridiculous mistake after all.
We definitely got out-muscled, and didn't want to waste energy in the rucks as some players said before the match and would rather just go back on defense in stead. We had a 7 kg difference per forward...smart choice.
And of course we're not at their level, but what I'm saying is given the current situation, how we're rebuilding, our year wasn't actually as bad as the media and fans say. And this was much better than the 42-17 thrashing we took the last time in SA.
I'm saying: we're not established yet, and our results still aren't catastrophic. Not bad, and I'm very hopeful for what's to come.

the rest of the french squad is not world class. We dont have 15 world class tacklers like SA & NZ for starters. Our jeu au pied is seriously lacking. The 2 AB tries were scored after 2 poor kicks back to them. Typical. Again, it is what is...
Yes our kicking game was clearly the object of much criticism this past Autumn, aimless, untimely, inaccurate...we'll get better at that. But you say we don't have world class players at every position, let's have a look at a typical, possible French XV:
1-Domingo
2-Kayser
3-Mas
4-Vahaamahina
5-Papé
6-Dusautoir
7-Lauret
8-Picamoles
9-Parra
10-Talès
11-Huget
12-Fofana
13-Fritz
14-Guitoune
15-Dulin


im not sure what your 'more time together' refers to. They are not spending enough time together to build the squad thats necessary to have a right go at the next WC. Its a selection not a team. Ive played in both, and its not the same thing.
You haven't heard about it ? Our players get some 13 days or so this time compared to under a week last year before the start of the 6N. Not perfect, but encouraging.

we need more Presidents like Boudjelal, did you see what Toulon was like before he arrived? I bet you didnt. Have you been to La Rade and asked the Toulon diehards of today how many would want to go back to what Toulon was like before the president arrived. You dont need to answer that one :)))
well he's bought every possible international player in sight. Toulon has a superstar at every position, and great pieces sitting on the bench...RCT is almighty and has won its first ever H C last year, what the hell do you think people in Toulon will tell me about Boudjelal ?! :lol:
Click to expand...

Answered the points in bold in there...more practical.
 
France often seems to me what Germany is when it comes to soccer - no matter how ****ty their game seems to be, they can shape it up and can deliver - not all the way but they have kicked some butts and I'm sure they will improve till the RWC. There's so much hype about Wales also a lot of people are convinced of the Irish - actually I think that March 15 will be decisive - Stade de France - France vs Ireland. I would be surprised if a team remains unbeaten, I just don't see it.
Another thing, just of pure interest - do you think French Top 14 can continue like this in terms of financing - I mean look at their budgets - to me, seems a rather dangerous bubble, Stade Toulousain probably a real exception.
 
HornetsCoach said:
France often seems to me what Germany is when it comes to soccer - no matter how ****ty their game seems to be, they can shape it up and can deliver - not all the way but they have kicked some butts and I'm sure they will improve till the RWC. There's so much hype about Wales also a lot of people are convinced of the Irish - actually I think that March 15 will be decisive - Stade de France - France vs Ireland. I would be surprised if a team remains unbeaten, I just don't see it.
Another thing, just of pure interest - do you think French Top 14 can continue like this in terms of financing - I mean look at their budgets - to me, seems a rather dangerous bubble, Stade Toulousain probably a real exception.
Click to expand...

awww gee...errr thanks...
But I know exactly what you mean though. You're right about that.

Well yes I mean there isn't a doubt on my mind we'll improve...ppl just look at the negatives for France because we've had all the losses, but they don't look at the margins of loss each time and the good elements in each one of those matches.
Yes it will be a very competitive tournament this year, and I don't think we'll see a GS winner...although how cool would it be for France to get that one. Our toughest game is Cardiff...we definitely *can* win that one and it wouldn't be a miracle or anything, but nobody knows what Rugby France will produce, the first couple of games will be very telling against England and Italy at home.

About your Top 14 question, sorry, not very interested in the whole financial aspect of sports (or anything in life in general). All I can tell you is the LNR (Top 14) will perceive compensation from the FFR (National). Something about 3million euros...compensation for players playing only 30 matches per season as a limit, the new agreement..
Surely this isn't final. The terms will change in the near future at some point...
 
You haven't heard about it ? Our players get some 13 days or so this time compared to under a week last year before the start of the 6N. Not perfect, but encouraging.

>>yes i have heard about the recent agreement. ITs an extra week theyre getting which will get diluted to 5 days with clubs putting pressure on their employees (the internationals) to miss some training sessions, not go to every team with imaginery injuries etc its already happening. Its a lame duck agreement because it doesnt satisfy both parties. SA still thinks he doesnt spend enough time with the internationals (cant disagree on that one!!) and on the other side, some club presidents such as Lorezenti & Boudjellal are unhappy and went public, no love lost btw them and the Federation. The current system is completely dysfunctional. if i was club president, i would not agree to release my french internationals under the present agreement. Imagine paying a french international 30K to 50K grand per MONTH and receiveing a pathetic compensation of 500 euros (yes five hundred) from the Federation for every international game your highly paid employee is risking his health & club season. This doesn't make any economic sense for a pro sport when u look at the budget of the top 5 clubs now. Problem is the Federation is run by retards out of touch with both the professional game AND grass-root rugby.
 
not really. french rugby is going the way of english soccer. A very average national team but a great domestic league with great clubs. I watched the Premiership regularly, I prefer it to the french or spanish or italian leagues.
The french national team will continue on its way down because it is poorely run by the federation i.e. a shower of clowns. This is NOT the clubs fault or problem. The future of the national team is NOT their priority, what would it be??
Yes french clubs will continue the way they are as long as they have the money. Not sure what u mean by bubble. If the owners have deep enough pockets, get the return on their investment and manage their finance well they will continue. I know its ******* off the other european nations but it is what it is. Please explain why the likes of Clermont Toulon Montpellier etc could not follow behind Toulouse if they have the finances and are well managed, why not?
 
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FrenchFan said:
>>yes i have heard about the recent agreement. ITs an extra week theyre getting which will get diluted to 5 days with clubs putting pressure on their employees (the internationals) to miss some training sessions, not go to every team with imaginery injuries etc its already happening. Its a lame duck agreement because it doesnt satisfy both parties. SA still thinks he doesnt spend enough time with the internationals (cant disagree on that one!!) and on the other side, some club presidents such as Lorezenti & Boudjellal are unhappy and went public, no love lost btw them and the Federation. The current system is completely dysfunctional. if i was club president, i would not agree to release my french internationals under the present agreement. Imagine paying a french international 30K to 50K grand per MONTH and receiveing a pathetic compensation of 500 euros (yes five hundred) from the Federation for every international game your highly paid employee is risking his health & club season. This doesn't make any economic sense for a pro sport when u look at the budget of the top 5 clubs now. Problem is the Federation is run by retards out of touch with both the professional game AND grass-root rugby.
Click to expand...

well yeah man, I know all that...you're right.
I'm just hopeful, like I said. I don't think we're progressively going to be worse though. I do think this whole situation from a legal/financial standpoint is pretty stupid and unsustainable for sure, but like I said there are those advantages it brings which is the reason why this happened in the first place.
We'll be less injured, and a little more prepared and used to each other in a Bleus jersey. That alone gives me something to hold onto.

I do like a lot that the LNR looked a bit powerless here. It sounds stubborn for me to say this, but all those years of domination over the FFR, and I've always said country first club second. It seemed the LNR wouldn't ever leave any breathing space at all just because they have way more money than the FFR. The Top 14 is filthy rich, and the FFR couldn't do anything up til this point now.

This is good to me because like I said it's shown resilience and strong retaliation from the FFR, so I at least know it to be possible and some times the big bucks and ppl holding them will shut the hell up - and clearly it's causing too much grief, injustice and a crazy amount of cacaphonic turmoil from all corners of the French Rugby world, and like you've said neither of the two sides are really happy with this; so necessarily something else will arise from this current situation, and the agreements will fine-tune until both sides are at least more or less satisfied.

This all raises the question: how the hell does England do it, really ??...what terms do they have, how do they get so much time together ??...
 
Big Ewis said:
well yeah man, I know all that...you're right.
I'm just hopeful, like I said. I don't think we're progressively going to be worse though. I do think this whole situation from a legal/financial standpoint is pretty stupid and unsustainable for sure, but like I said there are those advantages it brings which is the reason why this happened in the first place.
We'll be less injured, and a little more prepared and used to each other in a Bleus jersey. That alone gives me something to hold onto.

I do like a lot that the LNR looked a bit powerless here. It sounds stubborn for me to say this, but all those years of domination over the FFR, and I've always said country first club second. It seemed the LNR wouldn't ever leave any breathing space at all just because they have way more money than the FFR. The Top 14 is filthy rich, and the FFR couldn't do anything up til this point now.

This is good to me because like I said it's shown resilience and strong retaliation from the FFR, so I at least know it to be possible and some times the big bucks and ppl holding them will shut the hell up - and clearly it's causing too much grief, injustice and a crazy amount of cacaphonic turmoil from all corners of the French Rugby world, and like you've said neither of the two sides are really happy with this; so necessarily something else will arise from this current situation, and the agreements will fine-tune until both sides are at least more or less satisfied.

>>but the FFR is responsible for the poor form showed by the national team. NOT the clubs. I read about the agreement. The compensation per international player has gone up from 500 euros to 1300 euros (before tax). It is still A JOKE when u look at the salaries the clubs are paying to the french internationals AND the risk that they are taking with their employee. Where is the risk for the Federation? there is no risk. All the work is donne by the clubs and the risk is all theirs.
The Toulouse President Bouscatel has just resigned from the LNR, so you cant talk about an agreement when key players walk away from a deal. They cant agree with the Federation because these people dont speak the same language. period. The Federation guys have their head up their arse. Im telling you that next time they meet there will be a big escalation btw both parties with top clubs like Toulon rescinding the agreement with a view of not releasing their french interationals.

This all raises the question: how the hell does England do it, really ??...what terms do they have, how do they get so much time together ??...
Click to expand...
>>who cares? a french solution to a french problem. The problem is not the clubs but the federation. Toulouse are the most successful clubs in europe and their models of signing big names AND developing players in their academy is the way to go. They have the trophies to back it up.
 
yes, I know I know...everything you say is right, unfortunately.
In retrospect though, was the Top 14 bound to fail ? Is this similar to the European Union concept in that we just went into too fast and it looked feasible and intelligent at a point but we never saw those issues coming ?
Are 14 teams just too many for a one-country league ??...
Where/when did it go wrong though ?

And I'm just curious, for the English fans on here (or whoever would answer), how does it work with Aviva Prem and the Elite England Player Squad ?
 
Oh yeah forgot I asked that question TWICE ALREADY WITH NO ANSWER IN SIGHT !!!
HEY POMS !!....someone explain to me ahh wtvr, some other time...

Yeah the news is: Fritz out for at least most of the 6N because of a ..................MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENT ?!!! FFSS !!!!!! YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING MEEEE !!!!
He and Fofana were the perfect pair at midfield on both ends of the field....ffffuuuuuuuuckkkkkkkkkk......
So Bastareaud to start...or Fickou. Some are calling for yet another Toulousain, Yann David.

I say Bastareaud as starter and Fickou off the bench. Basta has shown he can be more than just an impact player and give a good 50-60min effort on both ends, tackling with vigor and consistency while always resisting tackles on every impact with ball in hand. He'll definitely be one to immediately grab for the opposing defense. Plus he's on form these days, it's timely..

Fickou's going to be awesome, but right now he's too fresh...can't have him start, can we...we need stability and wins this tournament, enough with the damn experimenting and "potential"..
 
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The amount of double posts in this thread I'm surprised the admin hasn't blown up lol :p
 
well there should be a way to distinguish between double posts and just another post made by the same user some time later, besides having to carefully look at the date/time...
this was more of a bump really. I don't double post..I respect teh forumz.

Anyways, got anything to say about Fritz's sweet buns ?? ahh who cares, it's Saturday conversation's starting in some hours !
 

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