• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

[2024 Six Nations] Wales vs Italy - 16/03/24

So. Deserved wooden spoon, and honestly, but for a few decent 20min. spells in a few games, we could have easily been smashed in every game. We barely deserved a point v Italy, let alone making the scoreboard look close at the end.

It was obvious that Gats didn't trust most of his bench, so why pick them then? The game was over as a contest before the front row and Costelow got subbed!

Gats was the right choice to take over from Pivac at short notice before the WC. Is he the right choice to take us forward? Not imo. His CV since ending his first stint (if you can call his long reign a stint) with Wales has been bloody terrible. The Lions played a similar slow paced, one dimensional gameplan v SA under him, and he can't blame inexperience there. Chiefs couldn't win a game with him in charge. 2 terrible 6N campaigns. But he beat the worst Aus side in living memory and was prob lucky to beat Fiji, so he's still the messia? Nah.

Bin him and most of the coaches, except the WRU prob can't afford to after handing him a long contract!

I accept that we are lacking quality players as well, and it can't all be pinned on Gats to be fair. But his selections and substitutions are baffling, and we look so rudderless and lacking in shape - and for me that's on Gats and the rest of the coaches.

Enough from me. I'll let @Welsh Exile post his multi-paragraph rant he promised us all!
I think your partly right but also harsh...

Gats is the most successful Welsh coach ever, but also most successful lions coach.

Bringing him back to settle the sinking ship made sense, but sadly he has had to deal with his own periodisation from 2019. Pivac made a mess of things, and was desperate so didnt blood enough younger players.

Gats since returning is having to use sub standard players, and is 100% right that the regions arent professional enough.

Last season Gats had no choice but to use the likes of Biggar, William's and co... but the loss of players cant really be faulted to Gats.

Think of the players that arent available...

Francis - first choice TH
Owen's- out/retired
Lake - injured
Carre - over weight
Hill - attacked a womans house ffs
AWJ - retired
Carter - injured
Ball - went to Aus
Tipuric - retired
Tsiunza - injured
Morgan - injured
Falatau - injured
Biggar - retired
Anscombe - left Wales
Patchell - left Wales
Evan's- left Wales
Sheedy - cap rule
Hawkins - cap rule
Llewellyn - left Wales
LRZ - left rugby
Halfpenny - left Wales
Williams - left Wales

That's 22 first team players of the top of my head Gats lost in the last 12 months.. crazy list!!!
 
So. Deserved wooden spoon, and honestly, but for a few decent 20min. spells in a few games, we could have easily been smashed in every game. We barely deserved a point v Italy, let alone making the scoreboard look close at the end.

It was obvious that Gats didn't trust most of his bench, so why pick them then? The game was over as a contest before the front row and Costelow got subbed!

Gats was the right choice to take over from Pivac at short notice before the WC. Is he the right choice to take us forward? Not imo. His CV since ending his first stint (if you can call his long reign a stint) with Wales has been bloody terrible. The Lions played a similar slow paced, one dimensional gameplan v SA under him, and he can't blame inexperience there. Chiefs couldn't win a game with him in charge. 2 terrible 6N campaigns. But he beat the worst Aus side in living memory and was prob lucky to beat Fiji, so he's still the messia? Nah.

Bin him and most of the coaches, except the WRU prob can't afford to after handing him a long contract!

I accept that we are lacking quality players as well, and it can't all be pinned on Gats to be fair. But his selections and substitutions are baffling, and we look so rudderless and lacking in shape - and for me that's on Gats and the rest of the coaches.

Enough from me. I'll let @Welsh Exile post his multi-paragraph rant he promised us all!
Haven't got the energy for it yet but Gatland apparently offered to resign after the game (not a good sign) and the CEO said that's the last thing I want (also not a good sign)
 
I think your partly right but also harsh...

Gats is the most successful Welsh coach ever, but also most successful lions coach.

Bringing him back to settle the sinking ship made sense, but sadly he has had to deal with his own periodisation from 2019. Pivac made a mess of things, and was desperate so didnt blood enough younger players.

Gats since returning is having to use sub standard players, and is 100% right that the regions arent professional enough.

Last season Gats had no choice but to use the likes of Biggar, William's and co... but the loss of players cant really be faulted to Gats.

Think of the players that arent available...

Francis - first choice TH
Owen's- out/retired
Lake - injured
Carre - over weight would still have had more impact than the looseheads he picked this 6N + would have ensured Carre had 25 caps before moving back to Sarries!
Hill - attacked a womans house ffs we have options at lock inc. Rowlands that Gats has chosen to mostly ingnore this 6N.
AWJ - retired
Carter - injured not good enough anyway. Never kicked on after some promising early signs. Likes of Rhys Davies are better which Gats has all but ignored too.
Ball - went to Aus
Tipuric - retired we do miss Tipuric, especially in the lineout. He would have made even Elias look competent. Still, we have options at 7. How about Young who's a real quality player?
Tsiunza - injured
Morgan - injured
Falatau - injured
Biggar - retired
Anscombe - left Wales
Patchell - left Wales
Evan's- left Wales due to being ignored! He's a far batter player than Costelow and Lloyd, and is ******* available to be picked still! However, I think he picked up an injury before the 6N anyway.
Sheedy - cap rule not true, he's available for selection. Think injury has been an issue though
Hawkins - cap rule
Llewellyn - left Wales available for selection though.
LRZ - left rugby
Halfpenny - left Wales
Williams - left Wales

That's 22 first team players of the top of my head Gats lost in the last 12 months.. crazy list!!!
Few corrections.

Edit, but I agree with your general point that he inherited some **** from Pivac, especially an ageing squad.
 
Few corrections
Agree re Carre...

However, Evan's is out. Sheedy renewed his contract for 1 year ruling him out. Llewellyn was capped before moving from Cardiff.

Hill was a starter before leaving. Rowlands head hasnt been in it after the baby incident tbf to him.

Carter was the next big thing before his injuries.

Agree with Thomas young 100%!!! Mann doesnt get a look in if Young or Botham is fit. Same with Belcher, probably Cardiffs best player this year, and started every game, Lloyd hasnt had a league start ffs.

Anyway my point is Gats has returned, and suffered 22 players leaving the squad, that would be devastating for anyone in the 6N.
 
However, Evan's is out. Sheedy renewed his contract for 1 year ruling him out. Llewellyn was capped before moving from Cardiff.
This isn't true. Sheedy is available for selection. If he extended for a year, then it was an optional year in his original contract (Bristol guys might be able to confirm).

Llewellyn's move to the Prem was announdec before his first cap. He is 100% still available to Wales.
 
Translation:

Gats - I can't be ****** with this ****

Abi Tierney: Are you ******* kidding, we can't afford that, Dai has just built a pool on his second villa in Spain.
Thank God for Abi, she truly is the big rugby experienced Welsh figure who can take the WRU into the future!!!!
 
This isn't true. Sheedy is available for selection. If he extended for a year, then it was an optional year in his original contract (Bristol guys might be able to confirm).

Llewellyn's move to the Prem was announdec before his first cap. He is 100% still available to Wales.
It was announced before the cap, but he was capped before starting his contract.

Sheedy has moved to Cardiff to become available again
 
It was announced before the cap, but he was capped before starting his contract.

Sheedy has moved to Cardiff to become available again
Doesn't matter, it's about when the contract was signed, Llewellyn is available. Hawkins tried to claim the same, but couldn't prove it.

Sheedy is moving to Cardiff to continue his eligibility, not re-start it.
 
I'm going to name a bunch of players that Gat's could have picked in the 6N squad, but chose not to:

Rhys Carre - already menioned that I think he'd have had a better impact than all 3 looseheads Gats selected. Perhaps there's more to it than just weight, but we could really do with all the physical ball carriers we can muster, and there's none better atm than Carre!

Nicky Smith - another player continuously overlooked by Gats. Regularly starts ahead of Gareth Thomas for Ospreys and would 100% be a better option than Mathias.

Sam Parry - another regular in the Ospreys side who can actually throw into a lineout.

Liam Belcher - the form hooker in Wales this season, completely overlooked for his Cardiff teammate who hasn't started a professional game! The mind boggles!

Bradley Roberts - despite a miserable season for the Dragons as a whole, I thought Roberts has been a real positive, especially early on. Another who can actually hit his targerts. Not the biggest, but carries with pace and conviction.

Rhys Davies - offers physicality that we've been lacking.

Morgan Morris - one of the form players for any region over the last few years. Surely warrants an opportunity? Once again, we lack ball carriers, and he's one of the best at regional level.

Thomas Young - openside was far from an issue this 6N with Reffell excellent throughout, but Young does offer something different with his pace and skill. Mann has potential, but Young is proven, and Reffell could have been shifted to 6 with Young at 7 as an alternative.

Kieran Williams - one mistake in a wc warmup appears to be all Gats can see when it comes to Williams. I'm not sure if Williams would be the answer at 12 because I think we need a kicking and distributing option there ideally, but he was more deserving of his spot than Waktin based on regional form over the last couple seasons. Watkin played well(ish) v France to be fair to him, but we should't forget he was garbage v Scotland first up either.

Ben Thomas - been playing really well of late at 12, and could be a kicking/distributing option I mentioned above.

Keelan Giles - Adams barely looked fit this 6N, really poor in most matches (aside from in the air v Italy today). Not sure Giles is quite back to his pre-injury form, but he's certainly been dangerous of late.

Angus O'Brien - in between injuries, he's impressed me for a couple of seasons. Siege gun boot that would be really uaeful from deep, and a good all round game. Can make mistakes so might come unstuck at international level, but we have to remember that Rogers was included in the initial squad who also has errors in his game.

Iestyn Hopkins - always plays well for Ospreys. Plenty still to learn, so probably is too soon for him, but Winnet was similarly inexperienced, yet has been a huge success overall.

Couple of mentions for Morgan Morse and Dan Edwards - not sure I wanted to see either in the squad quite yet as they need more regional appearances before being thrown into international rugby, but both have shown the ability to step up.

Not saying these players would have made all the difference (and I'm clutching at some straws with a few, especially in the backs), but when Gatland is selecting players like Archie Griffin, Kemsley Mathias, Harri O'Connor, Evan Lloyd and Alex Mann (nothing againat Mann really, as I thought he did ok overall, but certainly lacked some physicality) over some of the above, then I'm not quite sure what Gats is smoking atm. Gotta remember that Dillon Lewis wasn't even in the original squad, with rookie Archie Griffin and perma-injured Leon Brown there ahead of him! I mean wtf?

Would be below team be worse than what we put out this 6N?

Carre, Belcher, Lewis
Rowlands, Jenkins
Wainwright, Reffel, Morris (or Reffel, Young, Wainwright)
T.Williams, Edwards,
K.Williams, North
Dyer, Winnett, Grady

Dee, Smith, Asseratti, R. Davies, Young/Morris, Hardy, B.Thomas, Giles
 
Last edited:
the in front of kicker in the 70th minute was the dumbest thing ive ever seen. Does he know there are ARs? Just lazy and ill disciplined.
 
I'm going to name a bunch of players that Gat's could have picked in the 6N squad, but chose not to:

Rhys Carre - already menioned that I think he'd have had a better impact than all 3 looseheads Gats selected. Perhaps there's more to it than just weight, but we could really do with all the physical ball carriers we can muster, and there's none better atm than Carre!

Nicky Smith - another player continuously overlooked by Gats. Regularly starts ahead of Gareth Thomas for Ospreys and would 100% be a better option than Mathias.

Sam Parry - another regular in the Ospreys side who can actually throw into a lineout.

Liam Belcher - the form hooker in Wales this season, completely overlooked for his Cardiff teammate who hasn't started a professional game! The mind boggles!

Bradley Roberts - despite a miserable season for the Dragons as a whole, I thought Roberts has been a real positive, especially early on. Another who can actually hit his targerts. Not the biggest, but carries with pace and conviction.

Rhys Davies - offers physicality that we've been lacking.

Morgan Morris - one of the form players for any region over the last few years. Surely warrants an opportunity? Once again, we lack ball carriers, and he's one of the best at regional level.

Thomas Young - openside was far from an issue this 6N with Reffell excellent throughout, but Young does offer something different with his pace and skill. Mann has potential, but Young is proven, and Reffell could have been shifted to 6 with Young at 7 as an alternative.

Kieran Williams - one mistake in a wc warmup appears to be all Gats can see when it comes to Williams. I'm not sure if Williams would be the answer at 12 because I think we need a kicking and distributing option there ideally, but he was more deserving of his spot than Waktin based on regional form over the last couple seasons. Watkin played well(ish) v France to be fair to him, but we should't forget he was garbage v Scotland first up either.

Ben Thomas - been playing really well of late at 12, and could be a kicking/distributing option I mentioned above.

Keelan Giles - Adams barely looked fit this 6N, really poor in most matches (aside from in the air v Italy today). Not sure Giles is quite back to his pre-injury form, but he's certainly been dangerous of late.

Angus O'Brien - in between injuries, he's impressed me for a couple of seasons. Siege gun boot that would be really uaeful from deep, and a good all round game. Can make mistakes so might come unstuck at international level, but we have to remember that Rogers was included in the initial squad who also has errors in his game.

Iestyn Hopkins - always plays well for Ospreys. Plenty still to learn, so probably is too soon for him, but Winnet was similarly inexperienced, yet has been a huge success overall.

Couple of mentions for Morgan Morse and Dan Edwards - not sure I wanted to see either in the squad quite yet as they need more regional appearances before being thrown into international rugby, but both have shown the ability to step up.

Not saying these players would have made all the difference (and I'm clutching at some straws with a few, especially in the backs), but when Gatland is selecting players like Archie Griffin, Kemsley Mathias, Harri O'Connor, Evan Lloyd and Alex Mann (nothing againat Mann really, as I thought he did ok overall, but certainly lacked some physicality) over some of the above, then I'm not quite sure what Gats is smoking atm. Gotta remember that Dillon Lewis wasn't even in the original squad, with rookie Archie Griffin and perma-injured Leon Brown there ahead of him! I mean wtf?

Would be below team be worse than what we put out this 6N?

Carre, Belcher, Lewis
Rowlands, Jenkins
Wainwright, Reffel, Morris (or Reffel, Young, Wainwright)
T.Williams, Edwards,
K.Williams, North
Dyer, Winnett, Grady

Dee, Smith, Asseratti, R. Davies, Young/Morris, Hardy, B.Thomas, Giles
You could probably select an alternative 15 that would compete with the first 15, even ignoring injuries...

Carre Belcher Francis
Hill Rowlands
Botham Moriarty Young
Bevan Sheedy
Hawkins Llewllyn/William's
Lane Thomas Giles

I reckon that alternative 15 would more than compete.
 
Contender for the tournament IMO, just a thing of beauty
IMO, it was nailed on for try of the tourney... before the French scored a couple of contenders a few hours later.

IMO, it still is personal brilliance - he absolutely floors one tackler, whilst escaping from another (whom he may not have been filly aware of) with just a shimmy of the hips.
 

Latest posts

Top