A look ahead: the 2014 Six Nations

[Big Ewis]

soooooooo...based on form of domestic teams - as little as it means, I know - Ireland seem like a feasible prospect for the 6N.

I'm still going to go with my current prognostic rankings, FRA-WAL-IRE-ENG-SCO-ITA, but I understand some would have serious doubts about them.

 

[Peat]

soooooooo...based on form of domestic teams - as little as it means, I know - Ireland seem like a feasible prospect for the 6N.

Nothing new. Not ruling them out, but the issue is whether Schmidt can transform potential into actuality, rather than how well they're doing in Europe.

A slight tipping point in their favour is a lot of strong performances in their problem positions.

 

[Tony Manx]

soooooooo...based on form of domestic teams - as little as it means, I know - Ireland seem like a feasible prospect for the 6N.

I'm still going to go with my current prognostic rankings, FRA-WAL-IRE-ENG-SCO-ITA, but I understand some would have serious doubts about them.

If the class of coaches such as Labit, Laporte, Galthie and Noves fail to get the french clubs to play an acceptable standard of rugby, what makes you think that those effing idiots PSA and the utterly distasteful Lagisquet can get a French team to out play an Irish team, that is basically Leinster, coached by Scmidt never mind England and wales!!!

 

[Big Ewis]

Well I still don't think PSA is an idiot, I dunno about Lagisquet being distasteful, but it sure helps Ireland they have a NZ coach now and an Aussie teaching their backs.

I think more time and the fact that we have so much talent on paper may pay dividends sooner than we all expect. And the fact that France is desperate for success now after a decimation in 2013.
Plus, besides their last match against NZ, Ireland haven't impressed this year. Quite the contrary. But I know, I know...injuries and all that...
And we have a favorable calendar for Feb and March this year.

And remember, no matter how crappy the results were this past year for France, they were still tight. Like I've been saying for the past....well, year - but a lot this past November especially - if France just click on attack, they're winning this tournament easily. All the rest is there, and in place. I think more time together will do us the greatest good and our backs will have less hesitation, will get their fundamentals working more fluidly, and we can at least play decently with some regularity throughout the thing.

 

[Tony Manx]

Well I still don't think PSA is an idiot, I dunno about Lagisquet being distasteful, .

Yet PSA still overlooks Trinh Duc and is wetting himself to get Michalak back despite the fact he cannot get a game, rightly, at Toulon............so much for his judgement!!

Lagisquet is distasteful only 'cos I cannot stand him as I blame him for the ills of BO in not realising times were changing in rugby and not getting the correct players or tactics for the changng conditions from back in 2005/6/7 to the present date!!

 

[Big Ewis]

well he's no master tactician (Lagisquet) but we'll have to see what France can manage with more time this next year. The 6N alone won't be enough, but let's give em some time.

As for PSA, the Michalak stubbornness was just strange, but given Michalak's emphatic return to NH Rugby, and the games he's had throughout 2012 for France and some good play in Toulon too, I can understand Saint-André was just waiting for him to find his form again but it just never came. He's looked good the last couple of times for France though, in limited time albeit.
And Fofana on the wing, etc...I know, everybody loves to hate PSA.

But then there are some of the good things he's done, and I'm not even paying that close attention, I'm just watching enough Rugby to keep me entertained:
- the idea of switching Huget to 15 during the last 6N. Worked brilliantly, well played.
- Picking Nyanga again for the 2012 EOYT, excellent.
- Lauret designated against the All-Blacks last November to slow NZ down in the rucks and counterball - did just that, and more. Brilliant and risky pick.
- Picking Forestier at loosehead in the absence of Thomas Domingo. Worked out fine for the most part, and he doesn't even start for his own club in Castres. Good find.
- Re-introducing Bastareaud as an impact player, and taking a chance on Debaty off the bench also.
- Discarding an unproductive Maxime Mermoz at center, a de facto pick before.
- Picking rookie Sofiane Guitoune this past tour, risky but fruitful choice yet again.
- Giving Pélissié a go, even though it didn't work as expected.

I like that despite the immense criticism these past 2 years, he still looks confident in his choices, and despite that strange tremolo he's got in his voice he never shies away from questions and facing the public. He's always extremely relaxed, too much even - and like I said, some gutsy, gutsy decisions at times when France Rugby was in total crisis.

I do admit he may have given TD more of a chance, yes, especially in that last trip to NZ for the 3 tests. But then again, Tales and Lopez were there...but surely in stead of Michalak, Trinh-Duc would have been a lot more productive...

 

[Tony Manx]

well he's no master tactician (Lagisquet) but we'll have to see what France can manage with more time this next year. The 6N alone won't be enough, but let's give em some time.

As for PSA, the Michalak stubbornness was just strange, but given Michalak's emphatic return to NH Rugby, and the games he's had throughout 2012 for France and some good play in Toulon too, I can understand Saint-André was just waiting for him to find his form again but it just never came. He's looked good the last couple of times for France though, in limited time albeit.
And Fofana on the wing, etc...I know, everybody loves to hate PSA.

But then there are some of the good things he's done, and I'm not even paying that close attention, I'm just watching enough Rugby to keep me entertained:
- the idea of switching Huget to 15 during the last 6N. Worked brilliantly, well played.
- Picking Nyanga again for the 2012 EOYT, excellent.
- Lauret designated against the All-Blacks last November to slow NZ down in the rucks and counterball - did just that, and more. Brilliant and risky pick.
- Picking Forestier at loosehead in the absence of Thomas Domingo. Worked out fine for the most part, and he doesn't even start for his own club in Castres. Good find.
- Re-introducing Bastareaud as an impact player, and taking a chance on Debaty off the bench also.
- Discarding an unproductive Maxime Mermoz at center, a de facto pick before.
- Picking rookie Sofiane Guitoune this past tour, risky but fruitful choice yet again.
- Giving Pélissié a go, even though it didn't work as expected.

I like that despite the immense criticism these past 2 years, he still looks confident in his choices, and despite that strange tremolo he's got in his voice he never shies away from questions and facing the public. He's always extremely relaxed, too much even - and like I said, some gutsy, gutsy decisions at times when France Rugby was in total crisis.

I do admit he may have given TD more of a chance, yes, especially in that last trip to NZ for the 3 tests. But then again, Tales and Lopez were there...but surely in stead of Michalak, Trinh-Duc would have been a lot more productive...

Many good points but, to be honest, a lot of them were a given for any other coach based on form and circumstances!

I have no problems with PSA as a person or the way he conducts himself or, indeed, his confidence in his selection but there is obviously something missing and when you are wrong you shoud admit and it is long past that with FTD!

There also seems to be missing that je ne sais quoi to do with energising the players to play with heart and spirit and that comes down to the coach...........for instance, Rowntree for England seems to get the English scum to really gel as a unit and play with heart but I do not seem to see the same with the French team?!

But what do I know!!

 

[Feicarsinn]

Well, we could have a good 6 nations. We showed against New Zealand that we have it in us to compete with the best, but this is nothing new. It's consistency that has been this Ireland's fault since 2009. Hopefully with a coach that's more willing to play to our strengths we stand a better chance of achieving that.

With a more long term view, I'm incredibly optimistic regards Irish rugby. The game has revolutionized in this country in the last decade. The provinces are churning players out, and the positional problems of the past look likely to become less chronic. The outhalf and loosehead positions give testament to that. While it will always require an exceptional generation to compete with the best, I can't see us slipping down to the standards we hit during the 90's any time soon.

 

[The Jones Boy]

If Ireland bring that kind of intensity in all their matches during the 6nations they will win the grand slam.

... as an Englishman id take a game against Wales , Ireland or France over a game against any SH team .

How very cowardly.
Each to their own.

 

[Big Ewis]

There also seems to be missing that je ne sais quoi to do with energising the players to play with heart and spirit and that comes down to the coach...........for instance, Rowntree for England seems to get the English scum to really gel as a unit and play with heart but I do not seem to see the same with the French team?!

surely, you mean "English scrum" !
And heart hasn't lacked for the French XV, no...they've fought with a lot of energy this entire year. It's really the attack, the game plans. We couldn't say this 2013 edition France just wasn't playing with heart or weren't interested or anything like that, that's not the problem, at least not this year. Playing hard is nice, but you've got to play smart too. We've been outplayed by a number of teams this year, and what a waste considering the side on paper.

Feicarsinn:
yes this coming 6N will be a huge indication as to what we can expect from Ireland from now til around the 2015 WC. There's already been a change in Ireland in their tendencies since around 2011. It was highly atypical of them to beat a SANZAR side, and AUS specifically of all sides in a World Cup for Ireland given their history there; and ultimately finish first in the Pool.

For example, when I heard about our Pool for the 2015, at the time I thought we got a comfortable one with Ireland and Italy, but given the context now I'm a lot less confident.
But Ireland are coming off a fairly dark year themselves, despite positives, and they've shown what they can do when they're clicking but then there's all the rest too...so one couldn't have complete confidence in their future results.

Now back to France:
one thing that keeps me hopeful is that, first of all we're coming off a good EOYT this year despite the 1-2 record and some obvious problems with finishing off plays; but second, we keep talking about how bad France has been since the 2011 RWC and rightfully so but we had that 2012 summer-til-EOYT chapter when we got 4th place. My point is that happened during the PSA years right after a bad 6N and before a terrible Wooden Spoon 6N, so there are highs too in the mix, it hasn't been entirely bleak at all. A record 33-6 win over Australia and 4 straight.

Had this segment never existed, I'd be quite depressed about France because I'd get an impending feeling of suffocation looking into a bleak future with what-ifs and frustration, but the pieces are there and we've shown what we can do with this exact setup before (well with Parra+Talès now in stead of Machenaud+Michalak).

And this agreement between the FFR and LNR could not have happened at a better time in view of le crunch in Paris against the English to hit off the run for a first ***le since 2010. Again, not sure it'll pay immediate dividends, but what good news just in general.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Well, we could have a good 6 nations. We showed against New Zealand that we have it in us to compete with the best, but this is nothing new. It's consistency that has been this Ireland's fault since 2009. Hopefully with a coach that's more willing to play to our strengths we stand a better chance of achieving that.

With a more long term view, I'm incredibly optimistic regards Irish rugby. The game has revolutionized in this country in the last decade. The provinces are churning players out, and the positional problems of the past look likely to become less chronic. The outhalf and loosehead positions give testament to that. While it will always require an exceptional generation to compete with the best, I can't see us slipping down to the standards we hit during the 90's any time soon.

Completely agree. Maybe not in time for the world cup, but in 4 or 5 years we could have a serious squad - especially our backline. Marmion, Sexton, Henshaw, Olding, Marshall, Payne, Kearney(x2), Farrell all to choose from, its looking good.

Edit: Don't know any young Munster players and Im sure they'll have some too!

 

[Feicarsinn]

Munster are producing their fair share. In terms of playing population they have a much smaller base, but they're doing okay. Peter O'Mahony and Conor Murray aren't going anywhere any time soon, while JJ is obviously a phenomenal talent. Big things are still expected of Paddy Butler and I still hold out real hopes for Dave Foley in the second row.

 

[Groundhog]

In the backs I reckon Ronan O'Mahony, JJ and Bohane all have bright futures. We're producing a lot of quality forward talent.
It's not like the Irish provinces have ever struggled in Europe. It's never before translated into international performances though.

 

[profitius]

For Munster JJ and Sweetnam are the backs to watch out for from an Ireland point of view. I've also high hopes for Rory Scannell.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Forgot about JJ!

Just like to add the Irish clubs won 140-29 this weekend

 

[Jbobo]

1. Wales
2. Ireland
3. England
4. France
5. Scotland
6. Italy

 

[Peat]

Munster are producing their fair share. In terms of playing population they have a much smaller base, but they're doing okay. Peter O'Mahony and Conor Murray aren't going anywhere any time soon, while JJ is obviously a phenomenal talent. Big things are still expected of Paddy Butler and I still hold out real hopes for Dave Foley in the second row.

Mildly trolling I guess, but rather overrated and needs to be far more complete for that to be true if you ask me - Ireland seem to produce another excellent back row every time I turn around. I think any of DOC v2.0, Ruddock and Henderson could overhaul him. Huge things expected of Dan Leavy too iirc with a fair bit of hype about a further half-dozen or so age grade back rowers. I think he'd have a bigger future at 7 or 8 but there seems to be no inclination to move him there.

Long term Ireland need to sort out Tighthead and Lock. Prospects are there but progress is slow. Everything else is there if a coach can bring it together.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Mildly trolling I guess, but rather overrated and needs to be far more complete for that to be true if you ask me - Ireland seem to produce another excellent back row every time I turn around. I think any of DOC v2.0, Ruddock and Henderson could overhaul him. Huge things expected of Dan Leavy too iirc with a fair bit of hype about a further half-dozen or so age grade back rowers. I think he'd have a bigger future at 7 or 8 but there seems to be no inclination to move him there.

Long term Ireland need to sort out Tighthead and Lock. Prospects are there but progress is slow. Everything else is there if a coach can bring it together.

Eh, not so sure, anyone I've talked to around school or whatever seem to really dislike him and think he's rather rubbish.

 

[Rich Taff]

Who's JJ? Haven't seen much Heineken cup this year or Amlin.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'm quite hopeful for Ireland in this 6nations, every team apart from Wales are in a transition phase and we've got a hugely talented player base to choose from, especially in the backs.

9. Murray, Marmion
10. Sexton, Madigan, Jackson
11-14. Zebo (will he be back?), Gilroy, Earls, Fitzgerald, McFadden, Kearney óg, Trimble???
12. D'Arcy, Marshall
13. O'Driscoll, Cave, Fitzgerald
15. Kearney, Henshaw (If he can replicate today in green)

As for the forwards though injury and lack of depth we're a bit skint on front 5 players, we've got 2 looseheads who are definitely up to international level but at hooker and tighthead through injury and lack of depth respectively we could struggle. The second row is funny, we have a world class operator in O'Connell but behind him we have a group of average to good players with Ryan leading the pack, along with scrumhalf I think when all our players are available second row is our weakest position.

Backrow is another question, we can stick with what we have, two world class backrows carrying one who's not quite up to international level, or we could try blood some of the players who could really make our backline feared come the next world cup and I think Tommy O'Donnell and Iain Henderson are our best bets, but then there's the question of turning Henderson into a second row as well.