A Political Thread pt. 2

[Ragey Erasmus]

Jezza's new party getting on well.

Corbyn and Sultana clash over new party membership

MP Zarah Sultana says she is a victim of a "sexist boys' club" in row over setting up new left wing party.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Which Tyler]

It's no suprise that far right groups in Europe always had Putin's backing and now it would seem the current American administration

As in "it's no surprise that far right groups in Europe have the current American adminstration's backing"
or "The current American administration has Putin's backing"?

Obviously, two things can both be true

 

[dirty harry]

I wouldn't say controlling. Influencing or disrupting would be more accurate.

But for what reason, to create a right wing nationalist patriotic government in each?

Or are you talking about the feminisation of men, eradication of race, family and religion in an attempt to demoralise?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

UK preparing to recognise Palestinian state as early as Friday

Move comes after Israel fails to meet UK conditions that would have postponed step

www.theguardian.com

 

[Welsh Exile]

But for what reason, to create a right wing nationalist patriotic government in each?

Or are you talking about the feminisation of men, eradication of race, family and religion in an attempt to demoralise?

For the very reasons I’ve already alluded to, to disrupt and influence western societies. Create division and get as many as you can to undermine and lose faith in their own institutions. Undermine the very trust in democracy by promoting election conspiracy theories. The greater western countries are divided both internally and among other western countries the better.

 

[dirty harry]

For the very reasons I've already alluded to, to disrupt and influence western societies. Create division and get as many as you can to undermine and lose faith in their own institutions. Undermine the very trust in democracy by promoting election conspiracy theories. The greater western countries are divided both internally and among other western countries the better.

But the result of thisnin your words is right wing nationalism spreading throughout the west. I cant imagine this being Putins goal tbh.

I would have thought Putin would have favoured a Biden style softly softly approach, US army trying to recruit little girls with lesbian mothers who has different types of strengths than masculinity, than a **** talking maverick nationalist hell bent on US domination in Trump?

It feels like Putin and Russia is a convenient bogey man currently.

 

[Welsh Exile]

But the result of thisnin your words is right wing nationalism spreading throughout the west. I cant imagine this being Putins goal tbh.

I would have thought Putin would have favoured a Biden style softly softly approach, US army trying to recruit little girls with lesbian mothers who has different types of strengths than masculinity, than a **** talking maverick nationalist hell bent on US domination in Trump?

It feels like Putin and Russia is a convenient bogey man currently.

Not necessarily, as I say the aim is to create division. But even if what you say is inevitable that’s still a better outcome for Russia and China than a strong democratic, western alliance.

Let’s say we no longer became a democracy and was ruled by Fararge in an authoritarian dictatorship, how do you think the conversation plays out between him and Putin when Putin says he wants Ukraine, or China and Taiwan?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

But the result of thisnin your words is right wing nationalism spreading throughout the west. I cant imagine this being Putins goal tbh.

I would have thought Putin would have favoured a Biden style softly softly approach, US army trying to recruit little girls with lesbian mothers who has different types of strengths than masculinity, than a **** talking maverick nationalist hell bent on US domination in Trump?

It feels like Putin and Russia is a convenient bogey man currently.

The biggest threat to Russia has been a united west. Nationalists in various countries are far more destabilising and desire to get at traditional allies than those on the left do. Look at Trump, look at Brexit, the destabilising of the west and the fracturing of NATO unity is being driven by nationalists.

The softly softly Biden approach was never going to blow up NATO. Those same softly softly people are the ones who are uniting NATO now whilst Trump has tried to torpedo it.

Russia has also positioned itself as the defender of the white race and strong masculinity and there is a lot of support among the nationalists for Russia off the back of this propaganda.

 

[McTallshort]

Not necessarily, as I say the aim is to create division. But even if what you say is inevitable that's still a better outcome for Russia and China than a strong democratic, western alliance.

Let's say we no longer became a democracy and was ruled by Fararge in an authoritarian dictatorship, how do you think the conversation plays out between him and Putin when Putin says he wants Ukraine, or China and Taiwan?

Having a Europe full of Orbans is better for Russia than a Europe full of Tusks

 

[McTallshort]

It feels like Putin and Russia is a convenient bogey man currently.

Ok Harry, take another win

 

[dirty harry]

Not necessarily, as I say the aim is to create division. But even if what you say is inevitable that's still a better outcome for Russia and China than a strong democratic, western alliance.

Let's say we no longer became a democracy and was ruled by Fararge in an authoritarian dictatorship, how do you think the conversation plays out between him and Putin when Putin says he wants Ukraine, or China and Taiwan?

I mean, you've taken a pretty big leap from Putin wants division to Farage offering Taiwan and Ukraine as tribute lol.

Im on board with Putin wanting division, Xi also, and I would get why Brexit would help empower Russia, but are we seriously considering Russia a credible threat? They have nukes, but realistically theyre barely a threat regional militarily, let alone globally.

I just dont see what Putin benefits from a nationalistic, patriotic right wing population in the west, even the argument that Trump sowes division, butnhes increased defence spending from NATO members.

I could imagine the Pro Palestine movement having Russian roots, but why arent the Russian bot farms pumping pro Russian ideas throughout thebwest currently?

 

[dirty harry]

The biggest threat to Russia has been a united west. Nationalists in various countries are far more destabilising and desire to get at traditional allies than those on the left do. Look at Trump, look at Brexit, the destabilising of the west and the fracturing of NATO unity is being driven by nationalists.

The softly softly Biden approach was never going to blow up NATO. Those same softly softly people are the ones who are uniting NATO now whilst Trump has tried to torpedo it.

Russia has also positioned itself as the defender of the white race and strong masculinity and there is a lot of support among the nationalists for Russia off the back of this propaganda.

I dont think the west are less united right now, for all the villification and internal political anti trump talk, not one leader has stood opposite him, they've all fallen in line. In fact there is an argument to be made NATO is more unified, with more responsibility on Europe than its been for a while.

Highlighted is a valid point, id probably argue that Poland has risen higher in this stance, but the question is why is Russia finding a small amount of support? If Russia has the ability to coerce the US into voting Trump, UK into brexit, Italy into voting Meloni etc, why is it vilified so much for the Ukraine war?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I dont think the west are less united right now, for all the villification and internal political anti trump talk, not one leader has stood opposite him, they've all fallen in line. In fact there is an argument to be made NATO is more unified, with more responsibility on Europe than its been for a while.

Highlighted is a valid point, id probably argue that Poland has risen higher in this stance, but the question is why is Russia finding a small amount of support? If Russia has the ability to coerce the US into voting Trump, UK into brexit, Italy into voting Meloni etc, why is it vilified so much for the Ukraine war?

Don't confuse unity with damage limitation. Trump has actively been trying to blow up relations with America's allies. The fact they pander to him to avoid further damage is not a sign of unity.

 

[dirty harry]

Don't confuse unity with damage limitation. Trump has actively been trying to blow up relations with America's allies. The fact they pander to him to avoid further damage is not a sign of unity.

NATO have increased spending, signalling stronger toward Russia, and have set harder targets going forward that would arguably strengthen its future further though.

Im not giving thay credit to Trump specifically, but he has been a catalyst to nations taking more responsibility.

Ostracising Putin hasn't worked, sanctions have become a joke, and banning them from running and singing competitions havnt seem to have had them waving the white flag.

I just dont see Russian bot farms dictating global decisions, if Russia became that much of a threat American politicans wouldnt be **** throwing at each other about who's more pro Putin

 

[Welsh Exile]

I mean, you've taken a pretty big leap from Putin wants division to Farage offering Taiwan and Ukraine as tribute lol.

Im on board with Putin wanting division, Xi also, and I would get why Brexit would help empower Russia, but are we seriously considering Russia a credible threat? They have nukes, but realistically theyre barely a threat regional militarily, let alone globally.

I just dont see what Putin benefits from a nationalistic, patriotic right wing population in the west, even the argument that Trump sowes division, butnhes increased defence spending from NATO members.

I could imagine the Pro Palestine movement having Russian roots, but why arent the Russian bot farms pumping pro Russian ideas throughout thebwest currently?

I was just playing out a worst case scenario in what you thought would be the most likely outcome.

I consider them a threat, sure. It doesn't have to be a military threat (though I wouldn't completely rule out anything these days) Just the fact they want to interfere and disrupt, by definition, means they're a threat.

I think he clearly benefits from those things but as I said that isn't necessarily the desired outcome.

They are pumping out pro Russian ideas. Narratives around how Russia is justified in its war with Ukraine and making them out to be a victim is rife on the internet.

 

[AlRums]

Forget about Jiffy "numbers" Davies. Get Biggar involved and Mike Philips as Social Media and culture minister and we'll have some good times ahead of us.

Can you image me Biggar's whinging if he was in government, he'd be constantly whining to the King it was unfair.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

NATO have increased spending, signalling stronger toward Russia, and have set harder targets going forward that would arguably strengthen its future further though.

Im not giving thay credit to Trump specifically, but he has been a catalyst to nations taking more responsibility.

Ostracising Putin hasn't worked, sanctions have become a joke, and banning them from running and singing competitions havnt seem to have had them waving the white flag.

I just dont see Russian bot farms dictating global decisions, if Russia became that much of a threat American politicans wouldnt be **** throwing at each other about who's more pro Putin

Again mixing up unity with damage limitation. NATO have upped spending precisely because the lack of unity and the fact the USA is no longer deemed a reliable partner. The rest of NATO are now trying to fill the void the USA has suddenly created in their defensive capabilities.

Also just because things may be happening in a way Russia doesn't like, that doesn't mean Russia didn't want to push it this way and it has not gone to plan. In terms of cutting off the USA from it's allies, it could hardly have gone better. Trump has dedicated more time attacking Americas allies than he has attacking Russia. Every little perceived insult from any ally and he's raging, Russia repeatedly slaps him in the face and he does nothing. You don't find that odd? Where are these huge repercussions he has promised multiple times? They haven't materialised. Meanwhile he has undermined NATO, slapped tariffs on most of the world, accused the EU of being a foe all for no reason. In what world are his actions unifying?

It's well known that Russian bot farms and Russian disinformation campaigns are overwhelmingly targeted at promoting nationalism. If they don't want to see that, why are they actively enabling it? Nationalism is their best tool to destroy the cooperation between NATO states. Russia could have wanted everything Trump did but not anticipated that other NATO nations would close ranks rather than fall into disunity.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Israel threatens national film awards after Palestinian story wins top prize

The Sea follows a boy from the occupied West Bank who wants to visit Tel Aviv to see the sea for the first time.

www.bbc.co.uk

I really feel like they need a government minister in charge of the films they produce, they should have strong messages that the public can't misconstrue. Isreal, so close to what they need.

 

[Reiser99]

Not necessarily, as I say the aim is to create division. But even if what you say is inevitable that's still a better outcome for Russia and China than a strong democratic, western alliance.

Let's say we no longer became a democracy and was ruled by Fararge in an authoritarian dictatorship, how do you think the conversation plays out between him and Putin when Putin says he wants Ukraine, or China and Taiwan?

Doesn't even have to be a dictatorship. Just a nationalist leader who is happy to ignore the rest of the world unless there is something to gain.

 

[dirty harry]

I was just playing out a worst case scenario in what you thought would be the most likely outcome.

I consider them a threat, sure. It doesn't have to be a military threat (though I wouldn't completely rule out anything these days) Just the fact they want to interfere and disrupt, by definition, means they're a threat.

I think he clearly benefits from those things but as I said that isn't necessarily the desired outcome.

They are pumping out pro Russian ideas. Narratives around how Russia is justified in its war with Ukraine and making them out to be a victim is rife on the internet.

Im not sure its rife, Ukraine flags and thoughts and prayers are still posted on social media, people have just been told its not as important as Gaza now.

Sonic not denying a cover security threat, but whats their endgame to creating a right wing nationalistic Europe?