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A Political Thread pt. 2

The thing that is really frustrating is it seems like a lot of the good work the left have done post war is being undone.

In my opinion the greatest sucess of the left over the last half century or so is to actually pull conservatives away from the far right. We've made them denounce homophobia and racism much like in the same way science has made the church change and become more in line with western values but now it seems we're regressing. Progression is never one steady line increasing over time, there’s always going to be dips until the inevitable progression gets back on track again but it does seem like we (the west) are in danger of fully regressing on a lot of the things we’ve won the battle of ideas on.
 
Welsh Exile said:
The thing that is really frustrating is it seems like a lot of the good work the left have done post war is being undone.

In my opinion the greatest sucess of the left over the last half century or so is to actually pull conservatives away from the far right. We've made them denounce homophobia and racism much like in the same way science has made the church change and become more in line with western values but now it seems we're regressing. Progression is never one steady line increasing over time, there's always going to be dips until the inevitable progression gets back on track again but it does seem like we (the west) are in danger of fully regressing on a lot of the things we've won the battle of ideas on.
Click to expand...

Why do you think this is is?
 
dirty harry said:
Why do you think this is is?
Click to expand...
Short answer is I don't know. I'd imagine, like with any macro issue like this it is a multi faceted thing.

Social media and misinformation in general is a big one. As I said the other day, economy is another factor for sure. UK specific but Brexit was clearly a bit of a turning point but then the 2 points above feed into that as well.

It's not all one sided, though, populists and wanna be dictators will play off genuine fears people have and either lie or overplay those things to stoke division. For example, there may be some issues we really need to face about immigration but that doesn't mean to say we need to stat rounding people up and deporting them and dehumanising people.
 
Becca said:
That's pretty scary, to be honest.
And a waste of Police time.
Click to expand...
Depends on what she said. I'm sure it wasn't anything worth police time and the police saying they 'lost' the complaint is pathetic. All they needed to do was confirm which post and then we can judge properly. If she said, "I'd stab you irl", then maybe there is something there. Problem is we don't know.
 
Welsh Exile said:
Short answer is I don't know. I'd imagine, like with any macro issue like this it is a multi faceted thing.

Social media and misinformation in general is a big one. As I said the other day, economy is another factor for sure. UK specific but Brexit was clearly a bit of a turning point but then the 2 points above feed into that as well.

It's not all one sided, though, populists and wanna be dictators will play off genuine fears people have and either lie or overplay those things to stoke division. For example, there may be some issues we really need to face about immigration but that doesn't mean to say we need to stat rounding people up and deporting them dehumanising people.
Click to expand...

100%. I think the rhetoricnhas gone way too far, its not a hate crime to say all immigrants are not refugees, or doctors and engineers, its not a hate crime to say thousands of adult men influx an area will be detrimental to the area, and it isnt a bleeding heart argument to empathise with these individuals, acknowledge we would do the same as they have if we were in their circumstances...

But none of that is politically convenient.

I would add, we keep hearing the Internet is the problem, and I agree to a degree, but I think access and usage are more problematic.

Mobile phones allow 24/7 wherever whenever access to social media, which utilises the algorithm to keep you engaged with it, using human psychology against us! Id suggest mobile phone social media use will become a bigger addiction than alcohol or smoking very soon.
 
Welsh Exile said:
Short answer is I don't know. I'd imagine, like with any macro issue like this it is a multi faceted thing.

Social media and misinformation in general is a big one. As I said the other day, economy is another factor for sure. UK specific but Brexit was clearly a bit of a turning point but then the 2 points above feed into that as well.

It's not all one sided, though, populists and wanna be dictators will play off genuine fears people have and either lie or overplay those things to stoke division. For example, there may be some issues we really need to face about immigration but that doesn't mean to say we need to stat rounding people up and deporting them and dehumanising people.
Click to expand...
Do you think a lot of this is just a backlash to the whole political correctness/cancel culture stuff from the 00s?
 
McTallshort said:
Do you think a lot of this is just a backlash to the whole political correctness/cancel culture stuff from the 00s?
Click to expand...
Possibly but I dunno really.

I would look more from 2007 onwards personally as that was when things started to go to **** economically speaking. And while Wales went through a lovely little period winning grand slams it was the start of bad times for a lot of people. Throw in Brexit 8 or 9 years later and I think that’s more relevant.

I’m sure there’s some good sociological research and papers done on this subject which would know more than me.
 
Welsh Exile said:
Possibly but I dunno really.

I would look more from 2007 onwards personally as that was when things started to go to **** economically speaking. And while Wales went through a lovely little period winning grand slams it was the start of bad times for a lot of people. Throw in Brexit 8 or 9 years later and I think that's more relevant.

I'm sure there's some good sociological research and papers done on this subject which would know more than me.
Click to expand...

I think mctallshort is probably close, the economic reasons are established, but the cultural pressure against the masses seems to have hit a turning point. Whether that leads to reactionary politics, or is merely a bump in the progressive road who knows.

Interestingly, I was arguing with a Robinson supporter on another site who was making the claim there were well over 500k people and not the 150k reported, and we basically came to the conclusion to let Chat gpt count the crowd lol.

Chat gpt wasnt able to, but did give an estimate based on footage available, of approximately in the region of 200k people given the size, and space available etc...

Went down like a led balloon, chat gpt is apparently a lefty programmed establishment mouthpiece, and tbh I'm not against that stance, but why would it estimate higher than official reports, and why would official reports be lower?
 
dirty harry said:
I think mctallshort is probably close, the economic reasons are established, but the cultural pressure against the masses seems to have hit a turning point. Whether that leads to reactionary politics, or is merely a bump in the progressive road who knows.

Interestingly, I was arguing with a Robinson supporter on another site who was making the claim there were well over 500k people and not the 150k reported, and we basically came to the conclusion to let Chat gpt count the crowd lol.

Chat gpt wasnt able to, but did give an estimate based on footage available, of approximately in the region of 200k people given the size, and space available etc...

Went down like a led balloon, chat gpt is apparently a lefty programmed establishment mouthpiece, and tbh I'm not against that stance, but why would it estimate higher than official reports, and why would official reports be lower?
Click to expand...
Gives the vibes off Trumps first inauguration where is said it was the biggest ever, despite clear evidence showing it wasn't.
 
Welsh Exile said:
Possibly but I dunno really.

I would look more from 2007 onwards personally as that was when things started to go to **** economically speaking. And while Wales went through a lovely little period winning grand slams it was the start of bad times for a lot of people. Throw in Brexit 8 or 9 years later and I think that's more relevant.

I'm sure there's some good sociological research and papers done on this subject which would know more than me.
Click to expand...
I do think people are underestimating thr impact of bot farms etc in authoritarian regimes such as Russia that take advantage of our free social media to pump the internet with divisive view points. It's no suprise that far right groups in Europe always had Putin's backing and now it would seem the current American administration
 
McTallshort said:
I do think people are underestimating thr impact of bot farms etc in authoritarian regimes such as Russia that take advantage of our free social media to pump the internet with divisive view points. It's no suprise that far right groups in Europe always had Putin's backing and now it would seem the current American administration
Click to expand...
100%
 
dirty harry said:
I think mctallshort is probably close, the economic reasons are established, but the cultural pressure against the masses seems to have hit a turning point. Whether that leads to reactionary politics, or is merely a bump in the progressive road who knows.
Click to expand...
I would say foreign intervention into our democracies play a bigger role than people’s reaction to PC culture.

When you undermine our institutions, like people such as Fararge and Trump did and do, then you’re going to see people resort to more extremist views in my opinion.
 
Welsh Exile said:
I would say foreign intervention into our democracies play a bigger role than people's reaction to PC culture.

When you undermine our institutions, like people such as Fararge and Trump did and do, then you're going to see people resort to more extremist views in my opinion.
Click to expand...

So Russia is controlling the western world with their bot farms?
 

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