A Political Thread pt. 2

[Ragey Erasmus]

Where is what? The division, the disruption? Look at the assassinations, election interference and growing extreme views (including Russian propaganda) making its way into the British public.

Give up, he's just straight up gaslighting now.

 

[dirty harry]

They don't seem to be able to push much further. Who knows how it'll end up, let's hope they get it back.

Ukraine won't take another yard in return without boots on the ground, we both know that!

 

[Welsh Exile]

Ukraine won't take another yard in return without boots on the ground, we both know that!

And Russia isn’t taking much ground either from my understanding. Seems like a bit of a stalemate at the moment.

 

[dirty harry]

Where is what? The division, the disruption? Look at the assassinations, election interference and growing extreme views (including Russian propaganda) making its way into the British public.

The division of NATO? You mean the extra funding, the extra responsibility from europe, the stronger signalling towaard Russia?

Ill never understand the idea, that NATO needs to rely on Trump, while simultaneously hating on trump, surely a stronger NATO that leans away from an American daddy is better for all of us?

 

[Welsh Exile]

The division of NATO? You mean the extra funding, the extra responsibility from europe, the stronger signalling towaard Russia?

Ill never understand the idea, that NATO needs to rely on Trump, while simultaneously hating on trump, surely a stronger NATO that leans away from an American daddy is better for all of us?

Europe needs to pull its finger out but it also needs a strong, not unhinged, America.

 

[dirty harry]

Europe needs to pull its finger out but it also needs a strong, not unhinged, America.

So daddy Trump?

I cant agree with that, i think Trumps done us a favour, when we all contribute 5% the US won't be team America world police

 

[Welsh Exile]

So daddy Trump?

I cant agree with that, i think Trumps done us a favour, when we all contribute 5% the US won't be team America world police

America is, was, and always will be, far greater than Trump. He’ll be gone in a few years and America will carry on.

I agree it’s good Europe is doing more. We should do more.

 

[dirty harry]

Give up, he's just straight up gaslighting now.

Staying facts isnt gaslighting, only those who see themselves as victims deem it as gaslighting...

 

[dirty harry]

America is, was, and always will be, far greater than Trump. He'll be gone in a few years and America will carry on.

I agree it's good Europe is doing more. We should do more.

This is exactly my point, NATOs spending has increased, europe has taken more responsibility, has signalled stronger toward Putin, and as a result has moved away from reliance on whoever the US president is...

So where is the argument that NATO is weaker?!?!

 

[Welsh Exile]

This is exactly my point, NATOs spending has increased, europe has taken more responsibility, has signalled stronger toward Putin, and as a result has moved away from reliance on whoever the US president is...

So where is the argument that NATO is weaker?!?!

I didn’t make that argument.

 

[dirty harry]

I didn't make that argument.

@Ragey Erasmus made that argument
..

Are you disagreeing with him?

 

[dirty harry]

NATO now are definitely in a weaker position because, despite spending increases, NATO capability has dropped because people can no longer trust the USA to help. Also spending targets are a stupid way to determine NATO military capability, you should spend as much as you need to hit a target capability, not spend to a set level.

Multiple people have explained why that is, including me. You are one again arguing in bad faith and I can't be arsed to go around in circles with you sealioning again. Either you start discussing in good faith or I'm just not going to

@Welsh Exile so you disagree with this, and therefore acknowledge im not 'sealioning' whatever the **** that means?

 

[Welsh Exile]

@Welsh Exile so you disagree with this, and therefore acknowledge im not 'sealioning' whatever the **** that means?

No, I largely agree with it but I haven’t really been talking about NATO.

 

[dirty harry]

No, I largely agree with it but I haven't really been talking about NATO.

So you havnt been making the argument NATO is weaker, but agree that NATO is weaker despite its increased funding, stronger signalling, and increased responsibility and cohesiveness of europe?

 

[Welsh Exile]

So you havnt been making the argument NATO is weaker, but agree that NATO is weaker despite its increased funding, stronger signalling, and increased responsibility and cohesiveness of europe?

I think, and I think this will be true for a lot of matters while Trump is in the hot seat, that there will be uncertainty around NATO which isn’t good in general. You could say that makes it weaker even if funding has increased but then again you would have to have a nuanced discussion around something so complex.

 

[dirty harry]

I think, and I think this will be true for a lot of matters while Trump is in the hot seat, that there will be uncertainty around NATO which isn't good in general. You could say that makes it weaker even if funding has increased but then again you would have to have a nuanced discussion around something so complex.

And that discussion would be about relieving the US from their team America world police role no.

If NATO are better funded, more emboldened in their signaling and less reliant on the US, then its in a better state? How could you make the argument against that without being pro trump?

 

[Welsh Exile]

And that discussion would be about relieving the US from their team America world police role no.

If NATO are better funded, more emboldened in their signaling and less reliant on the US, then it’s in a better state? How could you make the argument against that without being pro trump?

NATO needs America. The world needs America. I have no interest to see the West further divided and letting China and Russia having a crack at world police.

 

[dirty harry]

NATO needs America. The world needs America. I have no interest to see the West further divided and letting China and Russia having a crack at world police.

Then why would you and ragey make the argument that despite increased funding, NATO is weaker, I mean if it was dependant on America, then its strength relies on America....

 

[Welsh Exile]

Then why would you and ragey make the argument that despite increased funding, NATO is weaker, I mean if it was dependant on America, then its strength relies on America....

Our real strength lies with our unity.

 

[Ddanno]

Stop ******* indulging him!