A Political Thread pt. 2

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

So are we basically seeing what happened in Syria from a different perspective?

Syria - US and western backed 'rebels'
Ukraine - Russian backed 'rebels'

Mmmm Assad not really same as Zelenskyy tho

 

[Gavin]

Mmmm Assad not really same as Zelenskyy tho

Perhaps not in terms of personality but Assad anti-west, pro-Russia, Zelenskyy anti-Russia, pro-west

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Perhaps not in terms of personality but Assad anti-west, pro-Russia, Zelenskyy anti-Russia, pro-west

Idk maybe if you are cross eyed, intentionally making your eyes blurry as well as pouring bleach in them and getting a cat to try and claw your eyeballs out, then I can see how the two situations look vaguely similar, but in practice they are virtually nothing alike

 

[Reiser99]

Idk maybe if you are cross eyed, intentionally making your eyes blurry as well as pouring bleach in them and getting a cat to try and claw your eyeballs out, then I can see how the two situations look vaguely similar, but in practice they are virtually nothing alike

I think he is trying to say that in both situations a foreign country is supporting rebels against a sovereign nation and that it is a matter of perspective.

Personally it's definitely not as simple as that, but America certainly isn't innocent when it comes to violence in other countries.

 

[ncurd]

In possibly less exciting news Sopel and Maitlis are leaving the BBC for LBC and a podcast. Which is partially a worry as you'd expect either one to have been on the frontrunner to replace Laura K which means who has a backbone at the BBC? Marr and Neil are also gone.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

In possibly less exciting news Sopel and Maitlis are leaving the BBC for LBC and a podcast. Which is partially a worry as you'd expect either one to have been on the frontrunner to replace Laura K which means who has a backbone at the BBC? Marr and Neil are also gone.

That is a massive shame for BBC. But like when Peston left there will be others to step into their shoes. I personally don’t mind LK, not a huge fan, but don’t dislike her.

 

[ncurd]

That is a massive shame for BBC. But like when Peston left there will be others to step into their shoes. I personally don’t mind LK, not a huge fan, but don’t dislike her.

I was pretty much in fence but then she described the storming of the Capitol Building as a fracas, as it was happening and she hit a point I couldn't be dealing with her.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I was pretty much in fence but then she described the storming of the Capitol Building as a fracas, as it was happening and she hit a point I couldn't be dealing with her.

Yeh not on describing it as that. Not sure what she was thinking.

Supreme court rejects Trump’s request to block access to January 6 records

House panel investigating the attack is already combing through Trump White House documents related to the insurrection

www.theguardian.com

Well hopefully this goes someway to some direct consequence for Trump. But race against time before November mid terms.

 

[Deleted member 53362]

I think he is trying to say that in both situations a foreign country is supporting rebels against a sovereign nation and that it is a matter of perspective.

Personally it's definitely not as simple as that, but America certainly isn't innocent when it comes to violence in other countries.

Yes. Obama getting involved in Yemen, Syria and Libya has lost the west any form of moral high ground

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Yes. Obama getting involved in Yemen, Syria and Libya has lost the west any form of moral high ground

Because the regimes in place there and their actions were just the same as those in Ukraine and the USA has now attempted to permanently occupy them...?

In other news, analysis of videos released by the separatists show they were filmed well before the events they claimed they were about, ie they are fake.

 

[Deleted member 53362]

Because the regimes in place there and their actions were just the same as those in Ukraine and the USA has now attempted to permanently occupy them...?

In other news, analysis of videos released by the separatists show they were filmed well before the events they claimed they were about, ie they are fake.

Kind of irrelevant. Was the attack on Libya justified? No. Was the action in Syria justified? No. Was the support of the genocide in Yemen justified? No.

All moral high ground from the west is gone.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Kind of irrelevant. Was the attack on Libya justified? No. Was the action in Syria justified? No. Was the support of the genocide in Yemen justified? No.

All moral high ground from the west is gone.

Ah all context and distinctions between events is irrelevant?

Seems reasonable

 

[Deleted member 53362]

Ah all context and distinctions between events is irrelevant?

Seems reasonable

The world isn't reasonable. What was the context for bombing in Syria and Yemen? How was that any more reasonable than what Putin is doing with Ukraine? What Putin is doing is wrong and destructive but America and much of Britain's foreign policies have also been wrong and destructive. Then you also have the complications of the current Tory government being very much in bed with Putin's regime.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Kind of irrelevant. Was the attack on Libya justified? No. Was the action in Syria justified? No. Was the support of the genocide in Yemen justified? No.

All moral high ground from the west is gone.

I mean it really isn't it is? Invading Germany in WW2 was not the same as us invading India when we were romping around the world colonising everywhere. The fact they are both invasions does not make those 2 events equivalent at all. Clearly not as extreme here but you cannot possibly try to say with a straight face that providing military support and a ground invasion to an uprising you helped foment in a democratic country you intentionally want to destabilise for your own gains is the same as providing military support to an uprising against a dictatorial regime in a country you otherwise had little interest in.

To claim the situation of both the government, rebels and action taken is irrelevant when deciding it was justified or not is, to put it bluntly, ******* ridiculous. Of course it is relevant.

You also seem to want to hold the west collectively responsible for the actions of the USA, which is likewise ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member 53362]

I mean it really isn't it is? Invading Germany in WW2 was not the same as us invading India when we were romping around the world colonising everywhere. The fact they are both invasions does not make those 2 events equivalent at all. Clearly not as extreme here but you cannot possibly try to say with a straight face that providing military support and a ground invasion to an uprising you helped foment in a democratic country you intentionally want to destabilise for your own gains is the same as providing military support to an uprising against a dictatorial regime in a country you otherwise had little interest in.

To claim the situation of both the government, rebels and action taken is irrelevant when deciding it was justified or not is, to put it bluntly, ******* ridiculous. Of course it is relevant.

You also seem to want to hold the west collectively responsible for the actions of the USA, which is likewise ridiculous.

The UK was part of the operations in Libya and Syria so we are just as responsible as the US. We are also allowing the Russians to rinse their money in London which actually makes the UK kind of responsible for the current situation in the Ukrainian. We have no moral high ground over Russia

 

[Reiser99]

Personally I would never say there are just wars. Certainly WW2 would come closest, but if you go back into the history of Germany at that time then you could quite probably apportion some blame to the WW1 allied forces that absolutely crippled Germany and created a situation for a demagogue and dictator for Hitler to gain power. Certainly at the signing of the Treaty of Versailles after WW1 in 1919 you had at least one allied general calling it a 20 year peace.

Definitely in the UK we have a history of ignoring if not out right deny our own past atrocities whilst trying to vigorously promote the idea that we were a beacon of civilisation, so to claim we have the moral high ground when the root of many conflicts can actually be traced back to European colonialism and the way maps were drawn back then us extremely debatable.

Ultimately it's often a matter of perspective. If America and Russia were allies, do you think America would be intervening in the same way? No. However, helping Ukraine helps America. There is just as much self interest in defending Ukraine as there is in doing the right thing if not more.

Finally two quotes, one man's rebel is another man's freedom fighter. Also .

Personally I will leave it to history to judge if a war is just. I don't agree with Russia invading Ukraine and it should be condemned. But also I'm not going to pretend the west is a benevolent force that only has Ukraine's best interests at heart.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Boris Johnson Refuses to Extend Russian Money ‘Clampdown’ to Conservative Donors

The Prime Minister accused his opponents of 'Russophobia' for asking about donations to the Conservative Party from individuals linked to Russia, reports Adam Bienkov

bylinetimes.com

Completely unrelated, I'm sure

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The S*n
Remainiacs
Corbyn


So close to bingo!

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

The S*n
Remainiacs
Corbyn


So close to bingo!

Remainiacs is a new one for me, up there with the best lol