All Blacks final World Cup squad?

[Canuck]

So after the Bledisloe Cup and Rugby Championship I think we have a general idea of the 31 the ABs will send to the World Cup. Thoughts, opinions, disagreements?

Dane Coles
Kevin Mealamu
Codie Taylor (I think he has showed enough to solidify himself of a place ahead of Hika Elliot)

Tony Woodcock
Owen Franks
Wyatt Crockett
Nepo Laulala
Ben Franks

Brodie Rettalick
Sam Whitelock
Luke Romano (Yes I think the ABs go with just 3 specialist locks for the WC!)

Richie McCaw
Keiran Read
Jerome Kaino
Sam Cane
Victor Vito
Liam Messam

Aaron Smith
TJ Perenara
Tawera Kerr-Barlow (even though he hasn't played lately I reckon his international form would still be better than Ellis)

Dan Carter
Beauden Barrett
Lima Sopoaga

Ma'a Nonu
Conrad Smith
Malakai Fekitoa
Sonny Bill Williams

Julian Savea
Nehe Milne-Skudder (earned himself a spot with his last few performances)
Ben Smith
Israel Dagg (I could still see Piutau grabbing this spot but I think Dagg's experience and big boot give him the edge here)

 

[Mcfadden]

Can't think of much wrong with that. It is late where I am mind you. Only thing I can see is I'd rather have Thrush over Romano (yes, even though he hasn't really got on the field). I think Luke goes in too upright, and Thrush has some pretty awesome tackling statistics if you look at his Super rugby form. Not totally sure on Codie Taylor. He's a great player, and I love him. But they might opt for the maturity and strong running game of Elliot. Then again, I thought I read Taylor was the most accurate thrower in NZ. And in finals footy, I think that's what you want. Possession will be golden and you want a guy who can get the set piece right.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I expect Slade and Piutau to be in there ahead of Sopoaga and Dagg. Otherwise exactly what I expect!

 

[Kiwi_]

I expect Slade and Piutau to be in there ahead of Sopoaga and Dagg. Otherwise exactly what I expect!

Slades solid and a "utility player", although I love Lima and really back his selection, I think going with Slade is the best option, given his experience and versatility. It's only fair he's awarded a spot over Lima because of what he's given and what he has still yet to give, he fills a very important role for us that sometimes gets overlooked.

SBW and Dagg should not go, period. I can't express enough how little these two offer, especially in the big games when going gets tough. Nonu last night again proved how valuable he is and how little SBW does. He doesn't run at the line, he shys away from contact, he goes into tackles simply looking to draw the defender and offload it, not to burst the line and make metres, he's a passengers and a p*ssy.

We don't need specialized locks, Vito and Kaino can fill that role fine and it really improves our breakdown when either Whitelock or Retallick aren't playing. The only specialized lock I'd take other than those 2 would be Patrick Tuipulotu, but he's injured.

Our wings is a real migraine, it's such an unbelievable headache of a selection between Skudder, Piutau and Naholo. Naholo has been injured so I think that rules him out, especially considering how awesome Nehe has been. What a revelation he is, but I'm not surprised given all his qualities.

The only blemish on last night performance was Woodcock. Goodes and Crockett would be the best options here, but I think he views Goodes like he does Broadhurst, Super 15 level and not test match quality, which is sad, because Tony is completely out off depth now.

 

[Shaggy]

I expect Slade and Piutau to be in there ahead of Sopoaga and Dagg. Otherwise exactly what I expect!

Pretty much agree, except that they haven't given the third halfback much game time, so they might only take the two; they might then take Sopoaga or a fourth specialist lock.

 

[nzlizard]

These are the certainties for me, based on how I think the selectors will want a mix of players in the team and the spots they want covered.

The rest is what mix of specialist vs utility plays do we want in the backs and how they see the rotation of forwards to keep the starting 23 fresh and ready for the knock out games.

The starting 23 for a WC semi or final will be the bolded players below, with the exception of lock cover/loose forward and a utility back still needed imo.

Dane Coles
Kevin Mealamu

Tony Woodcock
Owen Franks
Wyatt Crockett
Nepo Laulala
Ben Franks

Brodie Rettalick
Sam Whitelock

Richie McCaw
Keiran Read
Jerome Kaino
Sam Cane

Aaron Smith
TJ Perenara

Dan Carter
Beauden Barrett

Ma'a Nonu
Conrad Smith
Malakai Fekitoa


Julian Savea
Nehe Milne-Skudder (earned himself a spot with his last few performances)
Ben Smith

 

[austingtir]

I think we need to make room for Osbourne, Lima and Victor Vito. Dropping one half back out of three is not a big deal to me. If we take Savea and he's a dead weight out on that wing it will be a huge mistake imo.

I think between Jane, NMS and Naholo we dont loose much between all three only Jane is injury prone so the other two are better picks. I think Naholo should maybe be put on ice for next year and build him up for the Lions series.

Anyway somebodys going to get injured during the course of the WC for sure so its likely most of the above will be there at some stage.

 

[Kiwi_]

I think we need to make room for Osbourne, Lima and Victor Vito. Dropping one half back out of three is not a big deal to me. If we take Savea and he's a dead weight out on that wing it will be a huge mistake imo.

I think between Jane, NMS and Naholo we dont loose much between all three only Jane is injury prone so the other two are better picks. I think Naholo should maybe be put on ice for next year and build him up for the Lions series.

Anyway somebodys going to get injured during the course of the WC for sure so its likely most of the above will be there at some stage.

How can we make room for Osbourne? As much as I like him, Piutau, Skudder and Naholo are all better and Savea isn't going to get dropped.

 

[austingtir]

How can we make room for Osbourne? As much as I like him, Piutau, Skudder and Naholo are all better and Savea isn't going to get dropped.

Id be fine with Piutau replacing him I just prefer an out an out winger in the 11 I think the 14 doesnt matter. Last WC we were lumped with non specialist players out of position on the outside and imo we are doing it again in tight games defensively a guy like Piutau is great but im not so sure about the attack.

We are constricted by the squad size so it is what it is.

 

[Kiwi_]

Piutau is great on attack, breaks tackles and runs hard at the line and has a wicked step, good under high ball as well, not much more you can ask for to be honest. Paddy is just all round solid and isn't exceptional in any area, just really good.

 

[William18]

Piutau was probably the best player for the AB's in the last game he played! If he doesn't go to the World Cup it will be because he is leaving next season and because they want Dagg's boot. No way is Osbourne going.

 

[Kiwi_]

I'd start with Piutau on one wing, Skudder on the other, both are all round better players than Savea.

 

[William18]

Savea was one of the best players in the world last year! Then he had a good Super Rugby season. Now he has had two indifferent test matches. Surely the lesson we should have gleamed from last night is not to be so reactionary?

 

[Kiwi_]

Julian to me has a great strength in his running game, but that's it, it stops there, he's got no other qualities. He's Jonah Lomuesque and once teams learn how to defend against him, he's rendered nearly useless. We have guys that can do a similar job and do other areas a lot better now. Sorry, but that's professional sport.

Also he let himself slip from being one of the best by not looking after himself and keeping on a strict professional life style, no sympathy, especially in a RWC year and only a few months out.

 

[Mcfadden]

I don't really think Osbourne is anywhere near All Blacks material, although he's a very solid player. I've been surprised by the amount of whispers there have been this year about how he should be included in the ABs. I don't see any aspect to his game that would baffle or really make international teams struggle. He's a big dude who has done some pretty cool things with an awesome pack in front of him. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[Kiwi_]

I don't really think Osbourne is anywhere near All Blacks material, although he's a very solid player. I've been surprised by the amount of whispers there have been this year about how he should be included in the ABs. I don't see any aspect to his game that would baffle or really make international teams struggle. He's a big dude who has done some pretty cool things with an awesome pack in front of him. Nothing more nothing less.

Yeah, my thoughts.

 

[austingtir]

Savea was one of the best players in the world last year! Then he had a good Super Rugby season. Now he has had two indifferent test matches. Surely the lesson we should have gleamed from last night is not to be so reactionary?

I would add the super rugby final to that one of the biggest matches of his career and he was a total dudd. Piutau at a minimum should be replacing him imo.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't really think Osbourne is anywhere near All Blacks material, although he's a very solid player. I've been surprised by the amount of whispers there have been this year about how he should be included in the ABs. I don't see any aspect to his game that would baffle or really make international teams struggle. He's a big dude who has done some pretty cool things with an awesome pack in front of him. Nothing more nothing less.

Your missing the point about Osbourne, but you've pointed out basically all that Savea does at the same time..... Ironic huh?

What im getting at with Osbourne is he should of been played in one match in the lead up to remind Savea directly that his position is up for grabs if he doesnt pull finger. For mine he clearly is not pulling finger.

Osbourne if given a chance "could" be better than Savea but we wont know that unless we play him.

Savea if he plays to his potential probably wouldnt have any trouble keeping Osbourne out of the team.... fact is he's not.

I never liked Jonah for the same reasons I will probably never really like Savea. Very one dimensional players and useless against any organised commited defence.

 

[Kiwi_]

A good example was the Skudder kick, great vision and instinct. I can see Piutau and Naholo both doing this, I could not see Savea doing this. He's got tunnel vision. He's definitely our 4th best winger now.

 

[nickdnz]

Savea was one of the best players in the world last year! Then he had a good Super Rugby season. Now he has had two indifferent test matches. Surely the lesson we should have gleamed from last night is not to be so reactionary?

Nope. The lesson from last week is to ignore the fickle ramblings of half our kiwi members. Funny how Conrad Smith hasn't been congratulated after this match..

 

[Mcfadden]

Your missing the point about Osbourne, but you've pointed out basically all that Savea does at the same time..... Ironic huh?

What im getting at with Osbourne is he should of been played in one match in the lead up to remind Savea directly that his position is up for grabs if he doesnt pull finger. For mine he clearly is not pulling finger.

Osbourne if given a chance "could" be better than Savea but we wont know that unless we play him.

Savea if he plays to his potential probably wouldnt have any trouble keeping Osbourne out of the team.... fact is he's not.

I never liked Jonah for the same reasons I will probably never really like Savea. Very one dimensional players and useless against any organised commited defence.

Savea has a proven ability and it wasn't that long ago he was the best winger in the world. It's not like he's been bad these last couple of matches, he's just been less dominant. I see no reason to abandon that, which I guess is what I was getting at. I just haven't been that amazed by Osbourne, and I don't see how he is any better than Savea judging on current form. He's done some great things, but I've also seen him do some pretty dumb things and get stopped pretty easily.

But I can understand the sentiment of giving Savea some break time and letting someone else fight for that position. We don't want guys getting too comfortable after all. I'm just not sure if Paddy would be my choice to do that. Once the World Cup is over with, have as much fun as you want. But it's an important year and I'd be careful about who I'm tossing around the starting 15.