All Blacks vs Springboks, July 10th 2010

[Feicarsinn]

His answer to the Steyn-question is completely ridiculous

The question itself is fairly ridiculous mind. The 'journalist' is clearly just having a go at PdV and if I were coaching the Springboks I would have told him "it's my team, bugger off."

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

If he would be a man he would give an explanation. It's completely normal that people are wondering where Francois Steyn is. If he would have said:"Well, it's too much for a player that is active in Europe to also play in the Tri-Nations at this moment" it would have been enough but now he comes with stories that keep everyone in the dark

 

[Seaton]

Indeed, that last answer puts my own speculation into doubt.

My new speculation is that PDV does training in English, and because Steyn cannot grasp the concept of English, he does things wrong in training and matches, and PDV told him to improve his English, at which point Steyn got so upset and to prove a point he moved to France

I think I could be a journalist

 

[SavageLez]

The SA side has a large Stormers and Bull component. Stormers won all their games in NZ in this years S14. This was a first for any SA team in Super rugby history.
It should be a very good game but SA are without 3 key players in Francois Steyn (coach issues), Fourie Du Preez (injured) and Bismark Du Plessis (injured). That along with SA having a tough draw in this years Tri Nations having to play 3 x games away on the trot makes me lean towards NZ.

Carter has regained his form and it is the first time since 2008 that he starts with McCaw against SA. NZ's back three are also stronger than SA's so if the weather is good and NZ run the ball NZ should win.

Prediction: Narrow victory to NZ - 32/26

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

You mean Super14?

 

[Amobokoboko]

The SA side has a large Stormers and Bull component. Stormers won all their games in NZ in this years S14. This was a first for any SA team in Super rugby history.
It should be a very good game but SA are without 3 key players in Francois Steyn (coach issues), Fourie Du Preez (injured) and Bismark Du Plessis (injured). That along with SA having a tough draw in this years Tri Nations having to play 3 x games away on the trot makes me lean towards NZ.

Carter has regained his form and it is the first time since 2008 that he starts with McCaw against SA. NZ's back three are also stronger than SA's so if the weather is good and NZ run the ball NZ should win.

Prediction: Narrow victory to NZ - 32/26

You make a really good point there, but despite 3 key players missing SA still has lots of talent in their squad.

 

[waikatocheif]

i believe that it will be a very tight game and as much as it hurts me to say(me being a kiwi) i think southafrica will just pip us by say 3 points...... carter is returning to form but isnt quite their, steyn is playing fantastically and is a machine at goal kicking and broke carters record for points in a season in super14..

i believe that henry has gotten it all wrong and the boks will have an upper hand on us this year aswell but i believe the all blacks have a brighter future...... as the game is going back to its roots now and more running is becoming invovled the kicking days are slowly fading. with the spring boks the master's of the kicking game and line outs they could lose their key aspect..

where as the all blacks have more running skill and with raw talent like rene ranger,lelia masaga,hosea gear,cory jane we have great depth in our back three as most know.. but there are many great players in newzealand who arent really invovled with the all blacks (masaga,gear) soon newzealand will have the edge on south africa and the world just like 04-06 and we will just be able to run around or through those tiny springbok backs...... but mainly around their forwards

 

[RoosTah]

As an Australian all I can say is I hope this inevitably bruising and intense encounter will serve to deplete both sides of enough top line players for long enough for the wallabies to have some shot at winning more than one match this year :S . It should be a fantastic match, South Africa are finally making use of their massive player depth in a way that is frightening, but that still doesn't guarantee them victory. The All Blacks will grow in size at the prospect of beating such a brilliant bok squad and will want to seize the opportunity to cause doubt among the South Africans. I can't wait!

 

[SpanishBob]

Tight game, I agree, but even if I i would like to see the All Blacks winning the game by speed I think that the Springbols are so strong phisically right now, and tehy will make prevail their strength.

I think the absence of Du Preez won't be that determinant. Probably Springboks will loose one of the two matches in New Zealand, but they will win the trophy anyway.

 

[Amobokoboko]

As long as both sides play with the same passion/ aggression and fines it should be an awesome game and that way the result is less important.
I just wanna have a good game.

 

[rugbywriter]

It's deffinitely gonna be an awesome game, but the Boks will come away with it. Having two South African teams in the Super14 final really shows what a good place SA Rugby is in at the moment. I'll be disapointed if we see an all-Shark front row, considering how useless the Sharks were this season and fullback will either be Pienaar or Kirchner so I'm not very excited about that. Still, the Bok's line-out, breakdown superiority and Morne's boot will help the Boks to a close victory. It just seems like lately Carter doesn't make anything that isn't right in front.

What worries me is if Kirchner plays fullback with Dagg or Jane for New Zealand. Dagg and Jane are both outstanding players and rarely make handling errors. Kirchner does nothing but kick, and Jane and Dagg can catch a ball till the cows come home. Not to mention that Jane is one of the best counter-attackers in world rugby. So on that note, I do see New Zealand having a ton of attacking opportunities.

I think Januaries slowness at getting to the ruck will be costly. I also think his poor defence will open gates for an opportunist like Cowan.

But, like I said before, I think the Boks will come away with it. Apart from Richie McCaw, South Africa are far superior from numbers 4 through 8.

South Africa 28 - New Zealand 24

 

[nickdnz]

It's deffinitely gonna be an awesome game, but the Boks will come away with it. Having two South African teams in the Super14 final really shows what a good place SA Rugby is in at the moment. I'll be disapointed if we see an all-Shark front row, considering how useless the Sharks were this season and fullback will either be Pienaar or Kirchner so I'm not very excited about that. Still, the Bok's line-out, breakdown superiority and Morne's boot will help the Boks to a close victory. It just seems like lately Carter doesn't make anything that isn't right in front.

What worries me is if Kirchner plays fullback with Dagg or Jane for New Zealand. Dagg and Jane are both outstanding players and rarely make handling errors. Kirchner does nothing but kick, and Jane and Dagg can catch a ball till the cows come home. Not to mention that Jane is one of the best counter-attackers in world rugby. So on that note, I do see New Zealand having a ton of attacking opportunities.

I think Januaries slowness at getting to the ruck will be costly. I also think his poor defence will open gates for an opportunist like Cowan.

But, like I said before, I think the Boks will come away with it. Apart from Richie McCaw, South Africa are far superior from numbers 4 through 8.

South Africa 28 - New Zealand 24

Wow, Carter only makes things happen that is right in front of him...did you watch the game vs Ireland and Wales...like at all? He was a master class, I'm sure I wouldn't be alone when I say it was the best performance from a fly half this year.

I'd be interested in hearing how you rate Victor Vito, Brad Thorn, Sam Whitelock, Ma'a Nonu, (I know how you rate Conrad Smith) and Joe Rokocoko.

The Super 14 seems to have given South Africa huge confidence, but I think it has to be pointed out, the best talent from South Africa was arguably devided amongst two teams, the Bulls and the Stormers with a combined 20 springboks between them. New Zealand however has key All Blacks spread almost equally amongst four teams eg Blues, Crusaders, Hurricanes and Chiefs. Also players obviously step up much more for the All Blacks. I'm not saying we will defenitly win, however I think many South Africans are over confident.

Bekker and Matfield are class, and at the moment I'd say they are the best two locks in the world. However I rate Brad Thorn as a close third, over Bakkies. I think Sam Whitelock is obviously showing his class. Yes South Africa have the best line out, but I think the advantage will be slight, and NZ should win most of our ball. AB's have a better scrum, especially now Tialata is gone. Woodcock and Franks are awsome and Mealamu played a great game. In the loose forwards I don't think there is much between them at all, certainly not a big advantage. I rate Victor Vito as an outstanding blindside but prefer him at #8, and rest assured, Spies will have no speed or size advantage over Victor Vito, both being 110kgs and Speis only having half an inch on Vito. Speis does have more experience to be fair, but I think if Vito finds his feet in the international level, there will be no advantage at all. At openside, I'll take McCaw over Burger, as would most I think. Both are good players, but McCaw is the best. Jerome Kaino just came off his best form from S14 and will not have any real problems with physicality. That being said, I think Lowe is looking like class and may have a small advantage. If Ried is played at 8, then I'd rate him as one of the on form 8's in world rugby, and has been on great form for NZ lately, and that says alot considering I hated him when he started. Him being the only back up openside is a scary notion though. The strength in SA's loose forwards is depth, and with Messam as a back up blind side, there could well be some chances for SA to dominate if injuries come into it.

I think if NZ's backs are firing, than we'll win. The problem is, I think SA have a good enough defensive game to close down a lot of attack, it will take something special to break the line. If de Jongh is playing 12, I'll be interested to see how he will contain Ma'a Nonu. I think Carter has a better running game and I'd argue he is more creative than Steyn by a fair bit. Steyn has a very good kicking game and plays a much more structured role, which I think suits SA. I've already said I think Steyn vs Carter will be one of the greatest battles in rugby history.

Any way as I've said, I predict an AB win by 7 points, I'll go with 25-32. I could well be wrong, and am sure it will be a great two games.

 

[SavageLez]

All Blacks assistant coach Wayne Smith echoed McCaw's sentiments.

"We are rated No1 in the world but I don't think anyone in the squad actually believes we are No1 in the world after losing to the Boks last year," he said.

This was an interesting article - got to: http://www.supersport.com/rugby/springboks/news/100704/All_Blacks_want_revenge_McCaw.

 

[Dizzy]

. AB's have a better scrum, especially now Tialata is gone. Woodcock and Franks are awsome and Mealamu played a great game. In the loose forwards I don't think there is much between them at all, certainly not a big advantage.

Bro, unfortunately He's back!!!

 

[nickdnz]

Bro, unfortunately He's back!!!

Are you sure, he wasn't included in the Tri Nations squad named.

 

[rugbywriter]

Wow, Carter only makes things happen that is right in front of him...did you watch the game vs Ireland and Wales...like at all? He was a master class, I'm sure I wouldn't be alone when I say it was the best performance from a fly half this year.

I'd be interested in hearing how you rate Victor Vito, Brad Thorn, Sam Whitelock, Ma'a Nonu, (I know how you rate Conrad Smith) and Joe Rokocoko.

The Super 14 seems to have given South Africa huge confidence, but I think it has to be pointed out, the best talent from South Africa was arguably devided amongst two teams, the Bulls and the Stormers with a combined 20 springboks between them. New Zealand however has key All Blacks spread almost equally amongst four teams eg Blues, Crusaders, Hurricanes and Chiefs. Also players obviously step up much more for the All Blacks. I'm not saying we will defenitly win, however I think many South Africans are over confident.

Bekker and Matfield are class, and at the moment I'd say they are the best two locks in the world. However I rate Brad Thorn as a close third, over Bakkies. I think Sam Whitelock is obviously showing his class. Yes South Africa have the best line out, but I think the advantage will be slight, and NZ should win most of our ball. AB's have a better scrum, especially now Tialata is gone. Woodcock and Franks are awsome and Mealamu played a great game. In the loose forwards I don't think there is much between them at all, certainly not a big advantage. I rate Victor Vito as an outstanding blindside but prefer him at #8, and rest assured, Spies will have no speed or size advantage over Victor Vito, both being 110kgs and Speis only having half an inch on Vito. Speis does have more experience to be fair, but I think if Vito finds his feet in the international level, there will be no advantage at all. At openside, I'll take McCaw over Burger, as would most I think. Both are good players, but McCaw is the best. Jerome Kaino just came off his best form from S14 and will not have any real problems with physicality. That being said, I think Lowe is looking like class and may have a small advantage. If Ried is played at 8, then I'd rate him as one of the on form 8's in world rugby, and has been on great form for NZ lately, and that says alot considering I hated him when he started. Him being the only back up openside is a scary notion though. The strength in SA's loose forwards is depth, and with Messam as a back up blind side, there could well be some chances for SA to dominate if injuries come into it.

I think if NZ's backs are firing, than we'll win. The problem is, I think SA have a good enough defensive game to close down a lot of attack, it will take something special to break the line. If de Jongh is playing 12, I'll be interested to see how he will contain Ma'a Nonu. I think Carter has a better running game and I'd argue he is more creative than Steyn by a fair bit. Steyn has a very good kicking game and plays a much more structured role, which I think suits SA. I've already said I think Steyn vs Carter will be one of the greatest battles in rugby history.

Any way as I've said, I predict an AB win by 7 points, I'll go with 25-32. I could well be wrong, and am sure it will be a great two games.

I know Carter's running game is second to none, but I mean his goal-kicking has been poor for a while. Seriously, I'd love to see his kicking stats that aren't in front of the poles. I'm also not saying he's a bad goal-kicker, it's just that he's not kicking as well as he used to - he went through a stage where he couldn't miss.

I also rate all of those guys you mentioned except Brad Thorn. He's a strong scrummager but that's where it ends. And rating him higher then Bakkies Botha is very, very disturbing. I think Bakkies has done more then enough to earn his rep, yet this guy has sucked for a good while and has only just hit a bit of form and all of a sudden he's better then Bakkies Botha? You even said so yourself, you hated Brad Thorn. Has anyone ever hated Bakkies Botha? Sure, we might get mad at him when he gives away penalties too often, but his general talent makes him a far better lock then Thorn can ever hope to be.

Also, if BJ Botha starts and Gurthro keeps up his very uncharactersistic good form, our scrum will be much better then last year. Although if over-rated Tendai starts then I do expect the Boks to get destroyed at scrum time.

New Zealand also would have greatly bennifited from Hosea Gear. He's the type of player South Africans battle against. A guy like Rockococo, despite being a good player, is a bit er......been there done that. He's like Lomu, a great player, but Lomu didn't ever score a try against the Boks.This is because us Saffas don't fear physicality, we fear electric speed. This is very obvious as it is normally the players with more speed that do damage to the Boks then the big strong guys - not that Joe is slow though.

The AB's biggest strength is their backs, but the Springbok defence is looking resolute. All the backs barring Januarie and Kirchner are decent defenders - Morne Steyn has greatly improved his tackling. If Jean de Villiers and Jaques Fourie are the centre combo the ABs won't be given many line-breaks. The best shot would be for Cowan to take advantage of Januarie's slowness.

Mainly though, the kicking for goal will probably be the crucial factor, and this is why I think the Boks will win. Yes, I know what Carter has done before, but when he has a kick from the touchline, most people (and don't lie to yourself) are thinking "Nah I don't think he'll make it". If you don't believe me, you'll see what I mean. I paid huge attention to his kicking during the S14 and he almost missed everything that wasn't right infront. Like his conversion he missed in over-time which lost the Crusaders the game - I can't remember who it was against. And the kick was really not that hard.

Morne on the other hand has had his fair share of pressure-filled kicks. You normally expect him to make anything and he is much stronger mentally, as he can quickly put a bad kick behind him.

 

[Jer1cho]

Our arrogance is going to be our undoing... I'm feeling a whopping coming.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Seriously I fear the worst. Everybody thinks we will win this one arm tied behind the back but that's dangerously underestimating our opponent

 

[ranger]

I know Carter's running game is second to none, but I mean his goal-kicking has been poor for a while. Seriously, I'd love to see his kicking stats that aren't in front of the poles. I'm also not saying he's a bad goal-kicker, it's just that he's not kicking as well as he used to - he went through a stage where he couldn't miss.

I also rate all of those guys you mentioned except Brad Thorn. He's a strong scrummager but that's where it ends. And rating him higher then Bakkies Botha is very, very disturbing. I think Bakkies has done more then enough to earn his rep, yet this guy has sucked for a good while and has only just hit a bit of form and all of a sudden he's better then Bakkies Botha? You even said so yourself, you hated Brad Thorn. Has anyone ever hated Bakkies Botha? Sure, we might get mad at him when he gives away penalties too often, but his general talent makes him a far better lock then Thorn can ever hope to be.

Also, if BJ Botha starts and Gurthro keeps up his very uncharactersistic good form, our scrum will be much better then last year. Although if over-rated Tendai starts then I do expect the Boks to get destroyed at scrum time.

New Zealand also would have greatly bennifited from Hosea Gear. He's the type of player South Africans battle against. A guy like Rockococo, despite being a good player, is a bit er......been there done that. He's like Lomu, a great player, but Lomu didn't ever score a try against the Boks.This is because us Saffas don't fear physicality, we fear electric speed. This is very obvious as it is normally the players with more speed that do damage to the Boks then the big strong guys - not that Joe is slow though.

The AB's biggest strength is their backs, but the Springbok defence is looking resolute. All the backs barring Januarie and Kirchner are decent defenders - Morne Steyn has greatly improved his tackling. If Jean de Villiers and Jaques Fourie are the centre combo the ABs won't be given many line-breaks. The best shot would be for Cowan to take advantage of Januarie's slowness.

Mainly though, the kicking for goal will probably be the crucial factor, and this is why I think the Boks will win. Yes, I know what Carter has done before, but when he has a kick from the touchline, most people (and don't lie to yourself) are thinking "Nah I don't think he'll make it". If you don't believe me, you'll see what I mean. I paid huge attention to his kicking during the S14 and he almost missed everything that wasn't right infront. Like his conversion he missed in over-time which lost the Crusaders the game - I can't remember who it was against. And the kick was really not that hard.

Morne on the other hand has had his fair share of pressure-filled kicks. You normally expect him to make anything and he is much stronger mentally, as he can quickly put a bad kick behind him.

The stats from last years tests showed that Brad Thorn hit more rucks per game than any other All Black. He is the workhorse of the pack and is all ways there to clean out. McCaw steals the ball, Thorn protects it. His league background also means he is valuable as a runner and one-on-one tackler. He does all those things better than any other locks around.
His jumping isnt spectacular, but its not bad either. He normally jumps in the easy 2 spot and just catches everything thats thrown at him without being a real aeral threat to the opponent. That being said I think he is a better all round player than Bakkies at this point in time.

As for the whole "lomu never scored against us we aren't afraid of power because we are so tough" buisness,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYt1TOSni4E&feature=related at 0:35. Lomu ran all over the Springboks. When ever he got the ball they were so scared they commited 3-4 guys to him, stopping Lomu but leaving Wilson, Cullen etc with massive overlaps, Lomu might not have scored directly but his sheer presence on the field lead to his teammates scoring. NZ won more games against SA than they lost when Lomu was playing.

 

[Conal]

i love the springboks and admire the allblacks love how they play but i do feel a certain arrogance in the bok side i think their undeniable sucess may have got into them a bit mabey a heavy defeat by the all blacks could spur there very talented team on to a tri nations win they can beat the all blacks but i think their mind set isnt as good as the all blacks for this game