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All time greatest XV

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Jer Mac

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Myself and the brother had a conversation over lunch about this. here is the team we picked and you can see which ones we fought over:

15: Serge Blanco/JPR Williams
14: David Campese
13: Brian O Driscoll/Philip Sella
12: Tim Horan/Danie Gerber
11: Jona Lomu
10: Dan Carter
9: Gareth Edwards
8: Zinzan Brooks
7: Richie McCaw
6: Francois Pienar
5: John Eales/Colin Meads
4: Martin Johnson
3: Jason Leonard
2: Keith Wood/Sean Fitz.
1: Os DuRant


i know its abit crazy, but could be an interesting conversation to see peoples vies and their teams!!
 
Jack Kyle for 10.

This is ridiculous, I mean Kyle is regarded by many as the best 10 of all time, but I have never seen him play, how am I supposed to judge? Maybe if we restrict it to players you have seen play?
 
1. Os Du Randt
2. Keith Wood
3. Carl Hayman
4. Martin Johnson
5. John Eales
6. Richard Hill
7. Richie McCaw
8. Lawrence Dallaglio
9. Joost van der Westhuizen
10. Dan Carter
11. Jonah Lomu
12. Tim Horan
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Rupeni Caucaunibuca
15. Christian Cullen

16. Raphael Ibanez
17. Pieter de Villiers
18. Victor Matfield
19. Serge Betsen
20. Rob Howley
21. Jonathan Davies
22. Jason Robinson

of people I've seen (live or on tv)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Dec 10 2009, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Jack Kyle for 10.

This is ridiculous, I mean Kyle is regarded by many as the best Irish 10 of all time, but I have never seen him play, how am I supposed to judge? Maybe if we restrict it to players you have seen play?[/b]


Fix'd
 
Caucau..... totally forgot about him... god damit.... would he do more damage than campese??? highly likely!!! ya i suppose you can only judge on what you have seen.... would jeremy gusgott deserve notable mention!!!
i have heard people say jack kyle was incredible as was ollie campbell.... but were they better than barry john..who knows... All i know is dan carter is the complete package.. where the all blacks arent a world force without him... not many players carry that can and play like the way he does!!
 
I refuse to get tied in to these greatest all-time team debates. There are far too many variables to effectively decide who is better.

Amateur vs Pro
Technological advances


But by all means carry on
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Macado @ Dec 10 2009, 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Caucau..... totally forgot about him... god damit.... would he do more damage than campese??? highly likely!!! ya i suppose you can only judge on what you have seen.... would jeremy gusgott deserve notable mention!!!
i have heard people say jack kyle was incredible as was ollie campbell.... but were they better than barry john..who knows... All i know is dan carter is the complete package.. where the all blacks arent a world force without him... not many players carry that can and play like the way he does!![/b]

yep, there's a few for 13 like Guscott, Sella and Bateman who really deserve a shout because they were lovely footballers. For the same reason I'd think about Matt Giteau at 12. But O'Driscoll gets in there for being awesome in every category - he can score the wonderful solo tries, he makes try saving tackles and he hits rucks like an extra flanker.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Dec 10 2009, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
yep, there's a few for 13 like Guscott, Sella and Bateman[/b]
Would kinda dissagree with Bateman and Guscott. Good players and all but not in the same class as Sella or O'Driscoll (overall offensive and defensive games).

Totally agree with Hill, and van der Westhuizen but would question Wood (though I cant think of many off the top of my head) and Dayglo.

Final point. Billy Wizz HAS to get into that team somewhere. He was special, very very special. I'd put him in ahead of Rupeni Caucaunibuca. Both were rare rare talents, however one was a total pro, the other got fat and went missing a lot.

1,2,3 - Never have a clue about props.
4. Martin Johnson
5. John Eales
6. Richard Hill
7. Richie McCaw
8. Not sure. Maybe Zinzan?
9. Joost van der Westhuizen
10. Dan Carter
11. Jonah Lomu
12. Tim Horan
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Billy Wizz
15. Christian Cullen
 
I'll throw Umaga at 12. Think he ticked every box you can fill. Devastating tackler, prolific try scorer (more tries then John Kirwan. He scored 36 tries), very accurate passer, hard and fast runner, great leadership and vision. The only thing he lacked was an amazing kicking game, however I still think he is the greatest centre (though we'll put him at 12 not to upset the Irish who are hard over O'Driscol) in the professional era. I'd rate him above other quality centres such as Frank Bunce and Joe Stanley. That being said i realise that I could be bias, but from an honest point of view a World XV without Umaga seems flawed.

for me it would be (I swear I am trying not to be bias).

1. Os du Randt (no other legendary looseheads of the same status)
2. Keith Wood (over Fitz as a player)
3. Carl Hayman (greatest tight head I have ever seen play)
4. Ian Jones (Made locks what they are today in my opinion, athletic, mobile and great lineout jumpers in the modern system of lineouts)
5. Martin Johnson (Greatplayer an captain, heavy worker)
6. Richard Hill (the following name was added as to not start a debate, however Michael Jones and Jerry Collins diserve a mention as well as Francois Pienar)
7. Richie McCaw (Greatest openside flanker in history, maybe the first AB to reach 100 caps, unless Mils keeps on form)
8. Zinzan Brooke (Lawrence Dallaglio was also good).
9. Joost van der Westhuizen (Gregan was also amazing if not better in my opinion).
10. Daniel Carter (Wilkinson, Mehrtens, Larkham, Spencer all were good but Carter seems to be the total package)
11. Jonah Lomu (Most devistating player on his game the world has seen)
12. Tana Umaga (Because he can't be put in 13 as I'll be abused)
13. Brian O'Driscol (Because he is very good and rates all most as high as #12 on the list)
14. Rupeni Caucaunibuca (not really a 14, but he should be on the list. David Campese was very good, and was the greatest winger of the time, however Caucau seemed to be the most naturally talented.
15. Christian Cullen (Greatest try scorer in rugby in my opinion. Could run around anyone on a field)

16. Smit (Because it is bias me picking Fitzpatrick)
17. Jason Leonard (because it is bias me picking Olo Brown)
18. John Eales (Matfield was the other candidate)
18. Jerry Collins (that's right, I put him on the list! Michael Jones and Francois Pienar also were amazing players, but Collins is the hardest hitter I have ever seen, so I'll add him)
19. George Gregan (above Justin Marshall and Byron Kelleher, however those two I beleive unbiasly deserve mention)
20. Johnny Wilkinson (Because despite not having as a convincing career of consistant brilliance of that of Mehrtens, it would be bias to pick Mehrtens)
21. Tim Horan (Very good player, so I unbiasly pick him)
22. David Campese (because he was awsome, Jason Robinson, Doug Howlett, Rokocoko, Underwood, Jeff Wilson all could have been picked)

I didn't choose players pre professionalism because I find it too difficult to make a comparison between todays players who I've seen more of, however in order not to get into another argument about professionalism vs pre-professionalism players, I'll say that some could have been in the squad today.

As you can see by the consistant comments on the unbias nature of this post, it is clearly the ONLY team anyone could possibly pick and be correct, because despite what you may think, there is a right and wrong anwser, and this one is right.
 
Your bang on apart from your choices at 4 which made me chuckle (in a non-bias way of course), 14 (hes too fat) and 12 which was of course a joke but I just thought I'd clarify it before anyone missunderstood and thought you were being serious.

Mite was right about Robinson but at least he got better as he got older, "the fat bloke whos name I cant type" got worse.

And I'm not being bias but only two Irish players in the best 15 EVER! It appears I'm the only one who can look at this objectively.
 
I'm not bias but....

1. Peter Clohessy
2. Keith Wood
3. John Hayes
4. Mick Galwey
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Jim Williams
7. David Wallace
8. Anthony Foley

9. Peter Stringer
10. Daniel Carter
11. John Kelly
12. Trevor Halstead
13. Rua Tipoki
14. Doug Howlett
15. Christian Cullen
 
Serge Blanco, JPR Williams, Colin Meads, Gareth Edwards, Bennie Osler, JP Rives, Danie Gerber, Sella, Hugo Porta, Mike Gibson, Morne du Plessis, Danie Craven, Frank Cotton, Mervyn Davies ec etc these guys are all mythic and it is absolutely pointless to compare early rugby with modern rugby. Would Danie Grber have run roughshod through modern defences? Noone can say. BTW Frik du Preez is the best lock of all time without comparison. Also, it is quite hard to compare the Springboks who played during the Apartheid era and didn't compete against the rest of the world.

So considering only guys I think are comparable

15 Cullen (hated that guy; scored from nowhere)
14 Campese (class winger)
13 O'Driscoll (class center)
12 Umaga (pips Horan IMO and puts him on the bench)
11 Caucau (pity we only got glimpses of his physical genius)
10 Carter (just too damn good with Wilkinson on bech)
9 van der Westhuizen (him keeping Lomu from ever scoring against SA is probably why i don't rate Lomu as much as most people)(Gregan)
8 Brooke (but not by much)
7 Hill (Pienaar on bench)
6 McCaw (would probably make my absolute all-time team as well)
5 Eales (rate Matfield above Johnson but wouldn't work with Eales as first choice)
4 Johnson
3 Leonard (Hayman on the bench)
2 Wood (Smit as back-up)
1 du Randt (no-one comes close)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Dec 11 2009, 01:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I'm not bias but....[/b]
Well if your not being bias just post away. We trust you to be completely objective .........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stormer2010 @ Dec 11 2009, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
15 Cullen (hated that guy; scored from nowhere)
14 Campese (class winger)
13 O'Driscoll (class center)
12 Umaga (pips Horan IMO and puts him on the bench)
11 Caucau (pity we only got glimpses of his physical genius)
10 Carter (just too damn good with Wilkinson on bech)
9 van der Westhuizen (him keeping Lomu from ever scoring against SA is probably why i don't rate Lomu as much as most people)(Gregan)
8 Brooke (but not by much)
7 Hill (Pienaar on bench)
6 McCaw (would probably make my absolute all-time team as well)
5 Eales (rate Matfield above Johnson but wouldn't work with Eales as first choice)
4 Johnson
3 Leonard (Hayman on the bench)
2 Wood (Smit as back-up)
1 du Randt (no-one comes close)[/b]
This fine fellow has however decided to literally turn the topic upsidedown (damned Souther Hemispherical folks) by posting his team backwards. How am I meant to take him seriously when he has a fullback wearing 15 in at prop?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Dec 11 2009, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Dec 11 2009, 01:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not bias but....[/b]
Well if your not being bias just post away. We trust you to be completely objective .........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stormer2010 @ Dec 11 2009, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
15 Cullen (hated that guy; scored from nowhere)
14 Campese (class winger)
13 O'Driscoll (class center)
12 Umaga (pips Horan IMO and puts him on the bench)
11 Caucau (pity we only got glimpses of his physical genius)
10 Carter (just too damn good with Wilkinson on bech)
9 van der Westhuizen (him keeping Lomu from ever scoring against SA is probably why i don't rate Lomu as much as most people)(Gregan)
8 Brooke (but not by much)
7 Hill (Pienaar on bench)
6 McCaw (would probably make my absolute all-time team as well)
5 Eales (rate Matfield above Johnson but wouldn't work with Eales as first choice)
4 Johnson
3 Leonard (Hayman on the bench)
2 Wood (Smit as back-up)
1 du Randt (no-one comes close)[/b]
This fine fellow has however decided to literally turn the topic upsidedown (damned Souther Hemispherical folks) by posting his team backwards. How am I meant to take him seriously when he has a fullback wearing 15 in at prop?
[/b][/quote]

Just wanted to save the best for last.
 
Tana was quick, strong, huge in defence, a great center but he had no hands, can't be the greatest 12 of all time.
 
15: JPR Williams/Chris Cullien
14: Jonah Lomu
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Not really sure, but I'm tempted to go for Scott Gibbs. Purely because I'm not that familiar with many SH legends.
11: Ieun Evans/Shane Williams/Bryan Habana/Gerald Davis. Take your pick.

10: Barry John (Dan Carter can reside on the Bench)
9: Gareth Edwards

8: Lawrence Delgardo? I'm not really sure.
7: Richie McCaw (Martyn Williams as back-up. Two of the best ball-pinchers in World Rugby.)
6: Again, I'm tooooo youuung... Not sure. So insert your favorate Flanker here.
5: Victor Matfield
4: Martin Johnson
3: Os Du Randit
2: Keith Wood
1: Gethin Jenkins

Only three Welshies in, unless you count the odd 'Maybe'.
 
Im of the same believe that Tana wasnt that gifted with his hands.. great runner with ball in hand but so was tim horan and little tim could handle the shite out of it the basa!!!!!!!!!

must say Cyrill that i have heard barry john named as one of the greatest OH's the game has seen but Carter for me is untouchable at the moment!
 

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