Are Munster "worthy" champions?

[stevemagoo]

Really enjoyed that thread! Methinks Sean43 should just stick to watching sevens as intense forward play and wars of attrition are totally boring and shouldn't be watched! I've never seen someone be proved so completely wrong with one match!! hahaa!
I can just see him there sitting on his couch watching the game on Sunday going....."f%$k"
Brilliant!

 

[sean43]

lol aww I bet you loved coming on this thread after that. Im not going to be too picky about the tries, Munster were superb - but im still not convinced that their basic style of play is anything other than negative.

Im hoping for a Cardiff v Munster final now, we are going about it nicely. Then I think you would be put under pressure.

 

[durbutter]

Cardiff and Leinster played pretty negative rugby the last day there buddy!!

Admit it you rarely watch Munster and have no idea what you are on about.

You are so full of **** its literally unbelieveable. Unless of course you're trying to rise gullible Munster fans.
If the latter is the case congrats!

 

[sean43]

Cardiff played the most negative of rugby I have seen from them all season - at least we are getting somewhere in that you accept there is such a thing.

lol I have found the Munster "army" quite easy to rile, ive had this same argument with some of my Munster friends who are very much involved in Munster rugby - you all need to calm down a bit sometimes. Ill admit because of my friends involvement and passion for them and mine for Cardiff, they are my pet hate team (but I still dont like the way they play).

As for me being so full of shi*, I still absolutely stand by the fact Munster thrive on playing negative rugby.

 

[MunsterMan]

Define Negative rugby? Munster have an excellent balance between expansive and tight rugby. You can call it negative if you like, but it's f***ing good to watch when it goes right, as it has 6 times in the HEC this year as well as many times in the ML.

Munster Play the most attractive brand of rugby out of all the teams left in the competition, you can say that maybe the likes of Bath and Toulouse play better stuff to watch at least, but hey, maybe that is why they got knocked out.

 

[sean43]

They dont play the most attractive rugby out of the teams left at all! Cardiff have for years tried to play an expansive free flowing game, and they still do most of the time.

Cardiff v Gloucester was probably the best game of the HC this season for its expansiveness and running rugby. No way do Munster play the most attractive, effective yes - not particularly attractive.

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sean43 @ Apr 15 2009, 02:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

They dont play the most attractive rugby out of the teams left at all! Cardiff have for years tried to play an expansive free flowing game, and they still do most of the time.

Cardiff v Gloucester was probably the best game of the HC this season for its expansiveness and running rugby. No way do Munster play the most attractive, effective yes - not particularly attractive.[/b]

If you call two teams defending very poorly entertaining then sure. Why not.
I don't get how you can still argue this negative rugby thing when O'Gara didn't kick (outside of penalties and place kicks) untill....what was it, the 37th minute?

And of course it's easy to rile us qhen you've gone and created a thread, people have answered fairly unanimously and then you just go and be obstanant. By the way, Munster scored more points against the Ospreys than the combined total of the other three winning quarter final teams.

They've also scored 15 tries in their last three Heineken cup matches. Keith Earls has scored 5 tries in the his 5 matches. But yeah, negative forward and territorial based rugby is still their thing.



P.s Can Speedy do me a face palm? Or anyother facepalmers who are available.

 

[sean43]

Two teams defending poorly? Yet you go on to highlight Munsters brilliance and the amount of tries and points they scored against a team showing one of the worst defensive displays this season. (face palm please)

We can go through each try and see that most of them come from close range, a back may happen to score but it has come through pick and go's etc.

 

[MunsterMan]

Cardiff and Leinster are the most Negative teams left Sean, saying anything else is just stupid. Both teams may have played expansively in he past, but that has no relevance to how they play now.

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sean43 @ Apr 15 2009, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Two teams defending poorly? Yet you go on to highlight Munsters brilliance and the amount of tries and points they scored against a team showing one of the worst defensive displays this season. (face palm please)

We can go through each try and see that most of them come from close range, a back may happen to score but it has come through pick and go's etc.[/b]

Does it shock you to consider that pick and go is a practical way of drawing in players to make more room?

And as much as I appreciate that backs can score at the end of pick and goes I don't think any Munster backs have done that in recent matches so again more proof that you seem to be watching fictional ones.

Secondly, the reverse of your point, forwards can also score in a free flowing game. Something that we failed to point out warlier when you were talking about the amount of tries that Munster's forward score is that a large amount of these come from David Wallace and Niall Ronan scored tries that many back would be proud of. Notice O'Connell's try at the weekend came by means of excellent work by the backs.

And lol to your point about the Ospreys defence because if you go check the Magners League table as psiplayed in the magners league section of this lovely forum you'll see their the only team to have conceded less than 200 points in the league this season. So yeah, maybe you'd have seen that if your face wasn't in your palm?

 

[dullonien]

This entire thread is pointless. Sean, please stop classing Munster as the same team they were 2 or 3 seasons ago. Face it, Munster play a perfect balance of tight and open rugby, why wouldn't they when they have the likes of Mafi, Howlett, Earls? They were willing to throw the ball about against a team renowned for the counter attacking prowess (the Ospreys). The more sensible gameplan might have been to keep it tight, and make sure the likes of Hook and Shane didn't get the ball. They managed to do that, but play an expansive, enjoyable style of rugby at the same time.

Munster and the Blues are the two teams left in the tourny that will consistently play expansive rugby (the Blues were sensible on Sat and kept it tight against the kings of open rugby, Tolouse), but they'll open up against Leicester.

Still doesn't mean I like Munster, nobody likes teams who dominate their sport

 

[Sir Speedy]

As requested.

At this thread.

 

[Thingimubob]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sean43 @ Apr 15 2009, 02:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

They dont play the most attractive rugby out of the teams left at all! Cardiff have for years tried to play an expansive free flowing game, and they still do most of the time.

Cardiff v Gloucester was probably the best game of the HC this season for its expansiveness and running rugby. No way do Munster play the most attractive, effective yes - not particularly attractive.[/b]

do we? :huh: I've always thought of an on form Cardiff as playing a balance between running and forward-based rugby. I mean Roberts and Shanklin aren't exactly the most free-flowing classy backs around - they like the hard graft up the middle (though they can show a lot more flair than people give them credit for.) And Cardiff proved they have what it takes for a Munster-esque streak of grinding a game out against Toulouse (which was exactly the right game plan in my opinion - very much like Munster did in the final last year.) I;m not saying that Munster play only like that, they have some fantastic backs who can really chuck the ball about, so tbh, they have the perfect mix imo. So it's very harsh to slate them for something they don;t do most of teh time anymore.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Apr 15 2009, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Cardiff and Leinster are the most Negative teams left Sean, saying anything else is just stupid. Both teams may have played expansively in he past, but that has no relevance to how they play now.[/b]

Cardiff aren't really that negative, Saturday was the most ''negative'' I;ve seen them. Munster have done it before, and I'm sure they'll do it again. There's nothing wrong with that, because it's one way of winning a game and it works very well. The only time I've seen Munster cock it up was a league game against Cardiff last year where they just ground the clock down (after what had been a very good match, with quite a few tries) by pick and drives in their own 22. Warwick then had a chance to put the game at rest with a penalty punt to touch, but mucked it up and Cardiff scored a try at the death. I;m sure Munster learnt a lesson from that match and others like it, that it doesn't work all the time.

 

[Sir Speedy]

Don't see Munsterman's problem with Cardiff's 'negative' style against Toulouse. Munster did it in the final last year, in one of the worst spectacles I've ever witnessed. And at the end of the day, I don't give a **** if one of my home country's teams starts to win 3 - 0 snorefests. Winning is all that matters. The whole 'exciting rugby' rubbish is what made Gareth Jenkins's regime such a failure - well, that and the fact he's a crap coach.

I also don't see the problem with playing 'negative' rugby. I love watching teams kill their opposition by being tactically smarter than them.
What I hate is when sides win by ridiculous margins... In my opinion, that's worse to watch than a close game being played by two 'boring' sides.

 

[MunsterMan]

I don't have any problem with they way Cardiff beat Toulouse Speedy.

Thingimubob, I don't think you are taking the strength of the wind in the Arms Park that day in to account, kicking was just not an option, as it would have given Cardiff a lineout within 30 metres of our tryline or the ball withing 40 metres of our tryline for a counter. I thought our pack did very well to win a penalty, 99/100 that would have gone into touch but perhaps it served us right.

 

[Thingimubob]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Apr 15 2009, 04:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I don't have any problem with they way Cardiff beat Toulouse Speedy.

Thingimubob, I don't think you are taking the strength of the wind in the Arms Park that day in to account, kicking was just not an option, as it would have given Cardiff a lineout within 30 metres of our tryline or the ball withing 40 metres of our tryline for a counter. I thought our pack did very well to win a penalty, 99/100 that would have gone into touch but perhaps it served us right.[/b]

ah the stand I was in was quite protected so I didn't feel so much of it, and my memory's crap . Wasn't putting Munster down or anything, just using it as an example of how that tactic doesn't always work. They played expansive rugby for most of the game, scored 3 tries if I remember correctly.

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thingimubob @ Apr 16 2009, 03:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sean43 @ Apr 15 2009, 02:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They dont play the most attractive rugby out of the teams left at all! Cardiff have for years tried to play an expansive free flowing game, and they still do most of the time.

Cardiff v Gloucester was probably the best game of the HC this season for its expansiveness and running rugby. No way do Munster play the most attractive, effective yes - not particularly attractive.[/b]

do we? :huh: I've always thought of an on form Cardiff as playing a balance between running and forward-based rugby.[/b][/quote]
Exactly.

What more could you want from a team? You can have total full on 100% "I'm going to burst if I don't score a famous try" rugby. And that's ... great. But you want to win. And then dominate and keep on winning. For that you need Ze Total Rugby - rhythm and balance.

Plenty of evidence for that in Cardiff's pool games. All the hype is about Munster, but if the Blues hit the sweet spot they're a good bet for the cup.

Except Munster are only warming up. Bless.

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Apr 15 2009, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Cardiff and Leinster are the most Negative teams left Sean, saying anything else is just stupid. Both teams may have played expansively in he past, but that has no relevance to how they play now.[/b]

Bog off will you! Its not as if we won our last game 5-4 or anything! Jees

 

[MunsterMan]

And It is great to see, I was supporting Leinster on Sunday. Doesn't change the fact that you don't play the most attractive rugby, but who gives a f*** you are in a HEC semi-final.

 

[Thingimubob]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Apr 15 2009, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

And It is great to see, I was supporting Leinster on Sunday. Doesn't change the fact that you don't play the most attractive rugby, but who gives a f*** you are in a HEC semi-final.[/b]

think that probably answers the question of the thread in itself :L who gives a f*** if people don't like the way Munster play, they're double HEC Champions.