Are there any NH players better than SH?

[seanie]

<div class='quotemain'>
How about Castrogiovanni as being the best loose-head???[/b]

Just as a note Martin Castrogiovanni was born in Argentina, he learnt how to and played the game in Argentina before moving to Italy when he was already 20 years old. [/b][/quote]



I was hoping no one was going to mention that :blush: :Forum58:

 

[O'Rothlain]

Brian O'Driscoll and Chabal
they combined are better than all of the southern hemisphere combined.

 

[shazbooger]

It still holds true though, the SH has more talented individuals. [/b]

But you see it doesnt. You guys have a lot of fairly average but seriously over-hyped individuals as well. No doubt there is talent there, but while the Quarter final results dont suddenly make great players average, they do show some of the good players to be frankly average.

Dont mistake hype for talent.

 

[Bullitt]

Isn't it true that you're only as good as your last performance?

Oops, shouldn't have said that, it'll **** the <strike>Tongans</strike> <strike>Samoans</strike> <strike>Fijians</strike> <strike>random islanders</strike> Kiwis and Convicts off.

 

[fcukernaut]

<div class='quotemain'> It still holds true though, the SH has more talented individuals. [/b]

But you see it doesnt. You guys have a lot of fairly average but seriously over-hyped individuals as well. No doubt there is talent there, but while the Quarter final results dont suddenly make great players average, they do show some of the good players to be frankly average.

Dont mistake hype for talent.

[/b][/quote]



One game doesn't make or break player. You can't base your opinion of a player soley on one game, whether it be a positive result or a negative result. You can only judge a player based on a string of performances. And for the past three seasons we've seen these players to be the best individual players on the planet. That isn't hype, that is fact. Statistics even prove that NZ were a better pack, and better backs yesterday. 64% possesion, 77% territory, forcing France to make over 120 more tackles. That's failing to mention the lineouts won against the head, and the domination at scrum time. The only stat that ruins it all, is the most important one: the scoreboard. The players for the All Blacks who were deemed the best in the world still played an outstanding game.



Tony Woodcock and Carl Hayman still completely dominated at the scrum. Ali Williams was the best player on the park and robbed 4 balls against the head at lineout. Jerry Collins played very well until he got hurt, McCaw was all over the place barring some lapse in judgement at the end, where the drop goal went missing. Carter was injured and still booted the ball a country mile, mind you not into touch. Rocokoco was outstanding. Even McCalister made a huge claim for the 12 spot in a world XV.

 

[feicarsinn]

lol am i the only one who has noticed now that NZ are out the kiwi members have stopped the SH arguement and are pretty much hurling insults at everyone? well anyways now this thing one reslut doesnt make up for 3 years of dominance....well actually it kind of does. this is what NZ and the aussies have been aiming for for the last for years. and i seem to remember that whenever a SH team lost a match over that time period it was always put down th building for the world cup.eg aus in ireland etc... fact of the matter is 2 of each in the semis personally i think theyre very even and may i say how shcocked i am that no one at all has talked about FREDDDY MICHALAK- king of outhalfs

oh and before i forget sure new zealand are the strongest fastest and most skillful team in the world but at the end of the day its going to be a long time before bill goes back the auckland as they have the mental fortitude of a grapefruit(and not an expensive on either) which is more important than any of the above abilities

 

[Prestwick]

Now now, not every NZ fan is doing that (I Bleed Black a prime example of NZ humility and modesty. I'd probably say that if he ever scored for the All Blacks, he'd refuse to acknolwedge that he scored and would try to say that a team mate scored instead!)

But, in terms of sheer physicality, don't count out the English or French forwards just yet! I think it is safe to say that if I were choosing a forward pack, chaps like Chabal, Easter and Sheridan would be at the very top of my list to partner with Smidt, McCaw and even Du Randt....considering that anyone holding anything remotely approaching authority go AWOL when the **** hits the fan for the All Blacks, I think they'd need someone like Smidt or Chabal or Easter to crack some heads together.


...man...I almost said "Os Du Randy" out loud. Is the man a rather popular lad about town with the Ladies in South Africa? :lol:

 

[O'Rothlain]

John Hayes

Raphael Ibanez

Phil Vickery
Three great front row men from the NH.

 

[esoj]

Isn't it true that you're only as good as your last performance?

Oops, shouldn't have said that, it'll **** the <strike>Tongans</strike> <strike>Samoans</strike> <strike>Fijians</strike> <strike>random islanders</strike> Kiwis and Convicts off. [/b]

isn't it also true form is tempoary but class is permanent oh crap shouldn't have said that would **** the english and bandwagon followers off.

 

[fcukernaut]

I'll give you Ibanez, he's outstanding, but hayes and vickery? lol you're absolutly out of your mind if you think they are are the best in the world.

 

[diehardkiwi07]

i hope S.A take the world cup then you will find everyone had a loss and there can be only 1 winner, Its funny how Australia and NZ have 1 loss out of about a handful of wins and all of a sudden NH players are better pfffft!!! in there dreams

 

[Ripper]

John Hayes

Raphael Ibanez

Phil Vickery
Three great front row men from the NH.
[/b]

Three Great Man who have been molested in the scrums by Haymen and Woodcock for 4 years and picked off in the lineout by Ali Williams at will (He dominated the French Lineout in Lyon last year as well).

 

[KZNSharksFan]

Brian O'Driscoll and Chabal
they combined are better than all of the southern hemisphere combined.
[/b]

Consult your nearest psychiatrist

 

[Dmx#1]

Dont mistake hype for talent.

[/b]

Hmmmmm.......Chabal anyone?

 

[Brodizzle]

<div class='quotemain'>

Dont mistake hype for talent.

[/b]

Hmmmmm.......Chabal anyone?
[/b][/quote]
You'll pay for that foolish mortal....

 

[Prestwick]

Yeah, in my suggestions, I wasn't saying these guys are the best in the world. You'd have to be seriously arrogant if you think that to be the best of the world you'd have to be better than the elite in the Southern Hemisphere...

...especially when it comes to forwards.

But yeah, I don't really agree with people pushing Vickery, especially when chaps like Matt Stevens are far better.

It is more a case of taking vintage players from one nation and mixing them with others.

Has everyone forgotten about the Barbarians?! Isn't this what the Barbarians is meant to be about?! Making a dream team of world rugby?! Why aren't there more SH players in the Bar Bars? Why is that? Surely if the Bar Bars selectors had a free hand to choose whoever they wanted, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now!

 

[nam97]

SH team: NH team:

Woodcock NZ >>>>>>> Sheridan ENG
Smit SA >>>>>>> Szarzewski FRA
Hayman NZ >>>>>>>>> De Villiers FRA
Vickerman AUS >>>>>>>> O'Connell IRE
Matfield SA >>>>>>>>>>>> Thion FRA
Collins NZ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Betsen FRA
McCaw NZ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dusautoir FRA
Burger SA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Leamy IRE

Du Preez SA >>>>>>>> Peel WALES

Carter NZ >>>>>>>>>> f*** nows
Rokocoko NZ >>>>>>>>>>>> Heymans FRA
McAlister NZ < Jauzion FRA
Mortlock AUS < O'Driscoll IRE
Habana SA >>>>>>>>> Clerc FRA
Muliaina NZ >>>>>>>>> f*** nows

Just because Australia and NZ both lost in a one off (very very important) game does not change the fact that all round the SH has more talent than the NH individually. Bu as we know, individuality means squat when it comes to World Cup 1/4 final. Still doesn't change a bit in terms of talent.

Exceptions are; maybe O'Driscoll and Jauzion have the upper hand in their positions.
Also, these teams are just to be made an example of.

 

[HOMERJ]

This is a pretty pointless argument! How can you judge what are great players against one another! On any given day one might be better than the other.

 

[feicarsinn]

i seriously think everyone is forgetting how important mental attributes are. NZ players for all they are talented are losers (see all wcs since 07') while england and france seem to have a certain relisliance. well actually the french are just mad so they'll always be entertaining

 

[shtove]

One game doesn't make or break player. You can't base your opinion of a player soley on one game, whether it be a positive result or a negative result. You can only judge a player based on a string of performances. [/b]

Nah, the big games are what matter. That's when the "string of perfomances" gets distilled in to a moment of glory.

I'd say the one guy left with the biggest reputation on the line is Schalk Burger - and he was a leel beet shakey at #8 against Fiji.

And for the past three seasons we've seen these players to be the best individual players on the planet. That isn't hype, that is fact. Statistics even prove that NZ were a better pack, and better backs yesterday. 64% possesion, 77% territory, forcing France to make over 120 more tackles. That's failing to mention the lineouts won against the head, and the domination at scrum time. The only stat that ruins it all, is the most important one: the scoreboard. The players for the All Blacks who were deemed the best in the world still played an outstanding game.

Tony Woodcock and Carl Hayman still completely dominated at the scrum. Ali Williams was the best player on the park and robbed 4 balls against the head at lineout. Jerry Collins played very well until he got hurt, McCaw was all over the place barring some lapse in judgement at the end, where the drop goal went missing. Carter was injured and still booted the ball a country mile, mind you not into touch. Rocokoco was outstanding. Even McCalister made a huge claim for the 12 spot in a world XV.[/b]

This is so true. The ABs even improved their game in the "weak" areas - midfield and lineout. It is unbelievable that they lost.