Boks RWC 2019 Squad

[User1245]

Springboks' World Cup squad:

Forwards – Schalk Brits, Lood de Jager, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Eben Etzebeth, Steven Kitshoff, Vincent Koch, Siya Kolisi, Francois Louw, Frans Malherbe, Malcolm Marx, Bongi Mbonambi, Tendai Mtawarira, Franco Mostert, Trevor Nyakane, Kwagga Smith, RG Snyman, Duane Vermeulen.

Backs – Lukhanyo Am, Damian de Allende, Faf de Klerk, Warrick Gelant, Elton Jantjies, Herschel Jantjies, Cheslin Kolbe, Jesse Kriel, Makazole Mapimpi, Sbu Nkosi, Willie le Roux, Handre Pollard, Cobus Reinach, Frans Steyn.

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/its-official-gelant-smith-in-bok-rwc-squad/

Really good squad. As most people expected, no real surprises.

I love the dude but Mapimpi makes me nervous. Questionable defense and not great in the air.

Kwagga is lucky to be in the squad. Really hasn't done much in a Bok jersey. Great work ethic and we all know that he is a gun but he needs to figure out how to translate that into Test rugby.

Biggest risk we have is if Pollard gets injured.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Best possible team we could pick when taking injuries into consideration. I think it's the first time since 2007 that we have a team with so little doubts about who was chosen.

But with that said, I think we still have a few tricks up our sleeves with regard to how we are going to play. For one, I think Kolbe will move to the 11 spot with Nkosi staying at 14 and Mapimpi the back-up winger as well as Kriel and Willie.

What will be interesting is the composition of our bench, where I think we will have guys that can cover more that 1 position. I noticed yesterday at the unveiling of the players a guy like Franco Mostert was selected as "utility forward" and not just as a lock like Etzebeth, Lood and Snyman. Which makes me think that Mostert might be there to cover both lock and loose forward.

This is actually a squad that can win the world cup.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/its-official-gelant-smith-in-bok-rwc-squad/

Really good squad. As most people expected, no real surprises.

I love the dude but Mapimpi makes me nervous. Questionable defense and not great in the air.

Kwagga is lucky to be in the squad. Really hasn't done much in a Bok jersey. Great work ethic and we all know that he is a gun but he needs to figure out how to translate that into Test rugby.

Biggest risk we have is if Pollard gets injured.

This. Those are also my only 3 concerns at this stage everything considered and I believe those 3 concerns are all only factors in hypothetical situations: Pollard getting injured and the other two actually being first choice (which I doubt will be the case).

Quietly optimistic.

 

[TRF_heineken]

This. Those are also my only 3 concerns at this stage everything considered and I believe those 3 concerns are all only factors in hypothetical situations: Pollard getting injured and the other two actually being first choice (which I doubt will be the case).

Quietly optimistic.

I'm not worried about Kwagga though. I'm more worried about Kolisi. Yes he had a good showing returning from injury against Argentina, at least in that first 20 minutes. But Kolisi tends to fade a bit in tight games. He faded in the second half, but that was understandable because of his time out of action.

Don't get me wrong, I've become a big fan Siya, and the way he and Rassie have managed to get cohesion in the squad is something truly amazing. I actually spent yesterday afternoon watching videos of their preparation and photoshoots, and just day-to-day stuff. Have to say I haven't seen that in a very long time in the Bok camp.

Kwagga, I think is a guy that might be an underdog going to the World Cup, but I think he's the type of player that can put in match-winning performances. There's a reason why he got nearly half of Radio Raps' Varkhart awards during the Super Rugby season...

Pollard is the my biggest worry. If he gets injured, we're screwed.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Strong list!
How crazy would it be (or had been) to take say, Bosch instead of Jantijes?

Never ceases to amaze me the depth you have at some positions. How many teams would pay to have RJvR and Serfontein as first choice centers.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Strong list!
How crazy would it be (or had been) to take say, Bosch instead of Jantijes?

Never ceases to amaze me the depth you have at some positions. How many teams would pay to have RJvR and Serfontein as first choice centers.

Bosch didn't have a great start to his international career, and bombed out in both the games he played. Some guys just can't make that step up.

Jan Serfontein is injured and not available.

RJvR shouldn't have left when he did, but you can't blame him after the ordeal he had at home. He'll get a chance though.

The guys I think will be on the backup list:

Wilco Louw
Thomas Du Toit
Scarra Ntubeni
Marvin Orie
Rynardt Elstadt
Marco van Staden
Embrose Papier
Damian Willemse
Andre Esterhuizen
Dillyn Leyds

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I'm not worried about Kwagga though. I'm more worried about Kolisi. Yes he had a good showing returning from injury against Argentina, at least in that first 20 minutes. But Kolisi tends to fade a bit in tight games. He faded in the second half, but that was understandable because of his time out of action.

Don't get me wrong, I've become a big fan Siya, and the way he and Rassie have managed to get cohesion in the squad is something truly amazing. I actually spent yesterday afternoon watching videos of their preparation and photoshoots, and just day-to-day stuff. Have to say I haven't seen that in a very long time in the Bok camp.

Kwagga, I think is a guy that might be an underdog going to the World Cup, but I think he's the type of player that can put in match-winning performances. There's a reason why he got nearly half of Radio Raps' Varkhart awards during the Super Rugby season...

Pollard is the my biggest worry. If he gets injured, we're screwed.

Nah, Kolisi will go just fine. It might be my WP/Stormers bias but at the very least he's shown in the past that he can do on the big stage what he does (if not more so) at SR level. I also don't buy into talk of him being off the boil. Even this year he was playing stellar rugby. We can't expect him to recreate (or even need him to) his 2013 form. I have seen nothing from Kwagga to show he can translate SR impact to test level in 4 games.

But yeah. If Pollard gets injured our ***le hope gets a HUGE knock. Every other position we have 3/4 players at a similar enough level. Perhaps I'd say Vermeulen is the 2nd most difficult to replace but the gulf from him to say Louw isn't as great as from Polla to Jantjies.

Strong list!
How crazy would it be (or had been) to take say, Bosch instead of Jantijes?

Never ceases to amaze me the depth you have at some positions. How many teams would pay to have RJvR and Serfontein as first choice centers.

You will probably see Sharks fans say "Yes, add Bosch in ahead of Jantjies". Lions fans will call you crazy while us WP fans will probably say rather take Damian Willemse at 10 (I still see him as our 1st choice 10 even if the Bok management want him to play 15). I don't think it matters much. We have pollard and then there seems to be a huge gulf in class. Jantjies at least has some experience in his corner even if some of the younger guys get me more excited. Small margins of gains/losses beyond Pollard basically.

Cruz, I think Serfontein would probably be considered a favourite to be added to the squad if he were fit. RJvR didn't do himself any favors ITO Bok inclusion having left right after not really taking the few chances he got in dark green. At least Frans Steyn has some history with the Bokke and Esterhuizen was playing locally so was first in line to get a chance to shine.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Strong list!
How crazy would it be (or had been) to take say, Bosch instead of Jantijes?

Never ceases to amaze me the depth you have at some positions. How many teams would pay to have RJvR and Serfontein as first choice centers.

Both are better than de Allende, I think. De allende isn't bad, he's got a role in the team and it suits him, with plenty of playmakers around him, but rjvr could play that same role but better. Serfontein would offer something different, more. But he's injured.

 

[TheOvalBall]

Forwards look good, but the back's look thin.

 

[rugga658]

Gelant TBH is a bit of a quota pick

Average at Int'l level

If Willemse was fit I'd take him over Gelant

I don't know why more teams don't have a 18/13 split with Forwards & Backs

So I'd taken Gkobqua or Elstadt instead of Gelant

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Thx for the comments.
I'm aware of why those two centers were left out. I was just lamenting leaving such an amount of talent out of a world cup. I particularly like the idea of those two together playing together. I've mentioned it years ago. One open spaces and the other destroys you when you give him an inch. Offensively it'd be monstrous.


I understand Bosch doesn't have the experience Jantijes has, but it's not as if Jantijes experience under pressure is particularly good. And, at least Bosch brings something interesting offensively to the table. He is too small to make it as a fb and that is, as far as i understand, a bit of a requirement to make it to the springboks.

I know many will call me crazy but i don't think Bosch has much to envy from say, Damian McKenzie.

 

[TheOvalBall]

I don't rate Elton Jantjies at all. He isn't a very good player at International level.
And Andre Esterhuizen should've been there.

 

[User1245]

You will probably see Sharks fans say "Yes, add Bosch in ahead of Jantjies". Lions fans will call you crazy while us WP fans will probably say rather take Damian Willemse at 10 (I still see him as our 1st choice 10 even if the Bok management want him to play 15). I don't think it matters much. We have pollard and then there seems to be a huge gulf in class. Jantjies at least has some experience in his corner even if some of the younger guys get me more excited. Small margins of gains/losses beyond Pollard basically.

As a Sharks fan, Bosch is not ready. He's strikes me as the kind of player that can fold mentally if exposed to a high pressure situation too young. SA has a few examples of players who were 'damaged' like this. Conrad Jantjies and Derrick Hougaard are two that come to mind.

Gelant TBH is a bit of a quota pick

Average at Int'l level

If Willemse was fit I'd take him over Gelant

I don't know why more teams don't have a 18/13 split with Forwards & Backs

So I'd taken Gkobqua or Elstadt instead of Gelant

If you're going to call him a quota you have to provide an alternative player that is more deserving excluding Willemse.

It appears to be a tactical decision more than anything.

 

[TRF_heineken]

As a Sharks fan, Bosch is not ready. He's strikes me as the kind of player that can fold mentally if exposed to a high pressure situation too young. SA has a few examples of players who were 'damaged' like this. Conrad Jantjies and Derrick Hougaard are two that come to mind.

Yup. But in the same breath we see guys of the same age or younger that can make that step-up already. Maybe he needs some maturity to get over that mental hurdle.

If you're going to call him a quota you have to provide an alternative player that is more deserving excluding Willemse.

It appears to be a tactical decision more than anything.

Gelant has been one of the in form players in the Super Rugby and warrants his selection, but I do think that it was a toss up between him and Elstadt in the end. He's for sure low on the totem pole, but we need him in order to back up Willie in certain games. Rassie has already divulged his plans for the tournament and how he'll be splitting the teams for the games at the RWC.

 

[User1245]

Yup. But in the same breath we see guys of the same age or younger that can make that step-up already. Maybe he needs some maturity to get over that mental hurdle.

Yeah the Frans Steyn's, Handre Pollard's and Malcolm Marx's of the world can effortlessly step up. Really makes you appreciate the step up that is Test rugby.

I still remember the likes of a Schalk Burger being average during some Super Rugby seasons and he could just mysteriously lift his game for the Boks.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Gelant TBH is a bit of a quota pick

Average at Int'l level

If Willemse was fit I'd take him over Gelant

I don't know why more teams don't have a 18/13 split with Forwards & Backs

So I'd taken Gkobqua or Elstadt instead of Gelant

Bit unfair to say 'quota' if the player you are suggesting to replace him is also one of color AND unavailable in any case?

Thx for the comments.
I'm aware of why those two centers were left out. I was just lamenting leaving such an amount of talent out of a world cup. I particularly like the idea of those two together playing together. I've mentioned it years ago. One open spaces and the other destroys you when you give him an inch. Offensively it'd be monstrous.

I understand Bosch doesn't have the experience Jantijes has, but it's not as if Jantijes experience under pressure is particularly good. And, at least Bosch brings something interesting offensively to the table. He is too small to make it as a fb and that is, as far as i understand, a bit of a requirement to make it to the springboks.

I know many will call me crazy but i don't think Bosch has much to envy from say, Damian McKenzie.

Sorry, I didn't get that. I have to keep myself from lamenting Serfontein's unavailibilty every other post myself. If he were there at 13 and Marcel Coetzee in ahead of Kwagga Smith I'd feel that little bit more excited for our chances.

I don't rate Elton Jantjies at all. He isn't a very good player at International level.
And Andre Esterhuizen should've been there.

But who to replace Jantjies with? Rob du Preez? Bosch and Willemse are probably too green to frontline at this stage. Even if not Willemse is out and Bosch has a similar reputation to Jantjies ITO failing under pressure. Lambie doesn't play any more. Steyn or Goosen? I don't know what sort of form these players are in or if they are even available. I think there is something to be said for giving local players the benefit of the doubt where there is doubt. I don't see a 2nd choice flyhalf option for us that doesn't come with an asterisk of some sort next to his name.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Gelant TBH is a bit of a quota pick

Average at Int'l level

If Willemse was fit I'd take him over Gelant

I don't know why more teams don't have a 18/13 split with Forwards & Backs

So I'd taken Gkobqua or Elstadt instead of Gelant

Lots of players don't prove themselves but get given more time anyway. That includes white players. It's all too easy to see the black or coloured as just quota players when they fit in that category.

Regardless, quotas are the only way to address unconscious bias. sometimes it will mean undeserved players get picked, sometimes it will mean deserved players get picked when they wouldn't have otherwise.

I don't want to derail this thread, so I won't reply back here, happy to take it elsewhere.

I kinda agree re the 18/13 split, but I think other teams don't have as much luxury in terms of utility in the backs.

Pollard can play flyhalf, fullback and 12, Jantjies Too, kriel can play centre and wing, Herschel has come on at wing once I think, Frans can play midfield, flyhalf and fullback, Damian can probably play centre, Gelant at wing, ...

 

[TRF_heineken]

Pollard can play flyhalf, fullback and 12, Jantjies Too, kriel can play centre and wing, Herschel has come on at wing once I think, Frans can play midfield, flyhalf and fullback, Damian can probably play centre, Gelant at wing, ...

You're thinking of Papier. He came on as a wing.

Pollard, Jantjies, Kriel, Le Roux, Steyn, Kolbe, De Allende, Gelant & Faf can all play more than one position. I think Rassie has done an excellent job of picking guys that are specialists in a position, but can also be utilized in other positions without losing too much quality.

 

[WaterboySA]

But who to replace Jantjies with?

If Handre gets injured, I would send Jantjies home, keep Handre there as mascot and play Frans Steyn at 10.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

You're thinking of Papier. He came on as a wing.

Pollard, Jantjies, Kriel, Le Roux, Steyn, Kolbe, De Allende, Gelant & Faf can all play more than one position. I think Rassie has done an excellent job of picking guys that are specialists in a position, but can also be utilized in other positions without losing too much quality.

Ahh, yes, it was papier.