Calum Clark "incident" with Rob Hawkins - Arm Break

[munstermuffin]

Must say it is a fair call and ok the off season helps Clark but look he still doing time and it's in his record.
Saints know now that he done for season and can plan for his absence and well hope Clark learns from this because it was a blatant act of thuggery and he's let his club down big time.

 

[gingergenius]

you've gotta love EFS at times (and not just when he's playing football). Comedy gold.

Ban deserved, thought he should have 52 weeks but this one looks like he'll be back just in time for the AIs, which means nothing since he'll have no form, no game time and doesn't look good enough at the moment anyway. Hopefully this'll make him learn his lesson.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It also means that we'll see a new backrow brought in to the EPS.
Will probably just be Saull/Waldrom/Narraway/A.N.Other from the Saxons, but would love to see someone like Gibson, Kvesic, Seymour or Wallace brought in to the squad.

 

[Teh Mite]

Wood will get reinstated.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

They were both in the EPS though, so it still leaves one spot - though wasn't Narraway, and then Waldrom, called up to replace Wood?
Will presumably be one of those two again.

 

[Peat]

They were both in the EPS though, so it still leaves one spot - though wasn't Narraway, and then Waldrom, called up to replace Wood?
Will presumably be one of those two again.

Hopefully he'll go with someone younger - I'm a big Narraway fan, and admit to a grudging respect for Waldrom, but if Lancaster is a) serious about building for 2015 and b) taking Dowson, then we've got enough experience around and need to be introducing players like Gibson and Wallace.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I would like to ask something, and I would like everyone's honest opinion, especially you Olyy.

I've seen the footage, and I agree with the suspension. And I've seen some comments and have to agree with a lot of guys saying they saw a lot worse on a rugby pitch.

I for one have seen it numerous times, that a smaller guy goes for the "Chris Benoit ankle lock" with great success and not get punished. In Clark's case, I thought it was malicious intent and got what he deserved, and with that said, here is my Question:

Everyone agrees that Clark should get a very long ban, some even said it's not long enough, and I don't want to take the focus away from Clark. but how is this different from as Olyy might say, the continuous unrugby-like conduct from other players like for example, Bakkies Botha and others?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm not sure I understand your question?
I've not seen Botha break a mans arm (whether on purpose, or bending it almost to braeking, so a player moving off of a ruck will put the added pressure through it to snap).

Bakkies has a reputation for playing most of his career on the line/over it - Clarke doesn't have that (yet?) but is certainly losing the respect of the rugby public for this, and he's also shown his temper(/stupidity) for the U20s where he was redcarded for headbutting.
I don't like Botha because he's a consistent thug - Clarke is still young so hopefully he can get over his stupid streak - if not then he can go to hell in a handbasket, frankly.

 

[Teh Mite]

They were both in the EPS though, so it still leaves one spot - though wasn't Narraway, and then Waldrom, called up to replace Wood?
Will presumably be one of those two again.

I was under the impression Wood was dropped because of his injury.

 

[Peat]

There is a difference between the cheap shot merchants who deliberately attempt to hurt players in an attempt to illegally gain an advantage while in play, and an attempt to deliberate injure a player with no regards to the ball or play; I have only really Botha and most of his ilk do the former, Clark's actions looked like the latter.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I thought that too, but apparently he was:
http://www.therugbyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?26224-England-Six-Nations-Squad-2012

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'm not sure I understand your question?
I've not seen Botha break a mans arm (whether on purpose, or bending it almost to braeking, so a player moving off of a ruck will put the added pressure through it to snap).

Bakkies has a reputation for playing most of his career on the line/over it - Clarke doesn't have that (yet?) but is certainly losing the respect of the rugby public for this, and he's also shown his temper(/stupidity) for the U20s where he was redcarded for headbutting.
I don't like Botha because he's a consistent thug - Clarke is still young so hopefully he can get over his stupid streak - if not then he can go to hell in a handbasket, frankly.

Well you sort of answered my question, but on numerous other posts you have spoken about Bakkies must be banned for life, where he hasn't done anything remotely as bad as this situation, yet you come with the excuse that Clark is young and would learn from this, blah blah... Bakkies is as hard as nails, and some of his suspensions was very questionable (the B&I Lions cleanout comes to mind), but that being said, he didn't go to injure a player on purpose and whenever he did do something wrong, was quick to admit it...

Clearly Clark and Bakkies are not on the same bandwagon?

 

[big ginger 8]

Well you sort of answered my question, but on numerous other posts you have spoken about Bakkies must be banned for life, where he hasn't done anything remotely as bad as this situation, yet you come with the excuse that Clark is young and would learn from this, blah blah... Bakkies is as hard as nails, and some of his suspensions was very questionable (the B&I Lions cleanout comes to mind), but that being said, he didn't go to injure a player on purpose and whenever he did do something wrong, was quick to admit it...

Clearly Clark and Bakkies are not on the same bandwagon?

That clearout was only legal if you were South African. Btw I do think Clark should have gotten at least a year.

 

[TRF_heineken]

That clearout was only legal if you were South African. Btw I do think Clark should have gotten at least a year.

Hehe, I said it was questionable, and every B&I Lions supporter will see it as malicious, dangerous and wrong!

 

[big ginger 8]

Very questionable in my mind means shouldn't have happened doesn't matter now anyway.

 

[smartcooky]

He started down this career path this with his deliberate head-butt in the JRWC Final of 2008 (for which he was RC)

He was the captain of the England U20 side at that time; not a very good example to set.

[TEXTAREA]CALUM CLARK, sent off playing for England in a World Cup final, holds the key to restoring Red Rose pride according to Neil Back.

Back, arguably England's greatest openside flanker, says it is essential his old shirt is worn by a specialist No.7 in the upcoming Six Nations campaign.

And with Tom Wood out he not only believes the uncapped 22-year-old is the best option available.

He is convinced Clark, red-carded for a head-butt in the 2008 Junior World Cup final, has put his hot-headed days behind him.[/TEXTAREA]

Neil Back might be reviewing that position after this disgrace.

IMO, Clark is well down the track of becoming the new Danny Grewcock, a dirty toe-rag who ought to have no place in the game!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Well you sort of answered my question, but on numerous other posts you have spoken about Bakkies must be banned for life, where he hasn't done anything remotely as bad as this situation, yet you come with the excuse that Clark is young and would learn from this, blah blah... Bakkies is as hard as nails, and some of his suspensions was very questionable (the B&I Lions cleanout comes to mind), but that being said, he didn't go to injure a player on purpose and whenever he did do something wrong, was quick to admit it...

Clearly Clark and Bakkies are not on the same bandwagon?

I think it's a bit of hyperbole on my part when I said Botha should be banned for life I do think that he's a scumbag though, but I now think the same of Clark. I know I won't look at him the same way when he's back from his ban, and I hope that he's not in the England squad again (and if he is it's after several years of 0 incidents/exemplary behaviour)

 

[reis]

I hope Saints don't appeal. Apparently he wasn't found to have done it with intent, which is why the ban wasn't as long as some may have expected but wehat he did was horriffic and any less would really discredit the RFU. I had hoped that my club would try to uphold the prestige of rugby, but judging by their statement it sounds like they are preparing an appeal, disappointed.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I hope Saints don't appeal. Apparently he wasn't found to have done it with intent, which is why the ban wasn't as long as some may have expected but wehat he did was horriffic and any less would really discredit the RFU. I had hoped that my club would try to uphold the prestige of rugby, but judging by their statement it sounds like they are preparing an appeal, disappointed.

I think I'd agree with the no direct intent thing. It's hard to measure, but after he'd done it he did sort of stop and stare at Hawkins who was clearly in immense pain at that point. I don't think that was his intention, but at the same time you have to ask, literally what the **** did you think was going to happen if you did that!? There was never ging to be any other outcome, really. Insofar as players are now severely punished for dangerous play, Clarke definitely was deserving of a long ban. I mean, it's impossible for citing panel's to know the intention behind tip-tackles, for example, but they still are punished very severely. So I think they've got it right in giving a sizeable ban, even without the sense that it was intentional.

 

[j'nuh]

I think it's a bit of hyperbole on my part when I said Botha should be banned for life I do think that he's a scumbag though, but I now think the same of Clark. I know I won't look at him the same way when he's back from his ban, and I hope that he's not in the England squad again (and if he is it's after several years of 0 incidents/exemplary behaviour)

Fortunately, Lancaster seems to not tolerate misbehaviour. Also, I reckon he doesn't have much of a future with England anyway. When Haskell returns, we'll have 3 talented specialist 6s - it would be the position we had the strongest depth in. Clark (and Dowson too, hopefully) will be surplus to requirements. Considering this, and that Robshaw/Haskell can injury-cover 8, I hope a specialist 7 gets a chance to join the EPS if Clark is struck off. Steffon Armitage in? I'd like to see England try to deal with him: he'll be selected for England if he looks for an English club when his contract at Toulon ends at the end of next season.