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Can pirating games be justified sometimes?

Can pirating be Justified in special circumstances?

  • Yes, in cases like EA anything is justified

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, it's immoral regardless

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
S

sanzar

Guest
I just posted this rant in another thread on league unlimited and wondered how many people would agreed with me here:

I agree that pirating should be totally shunned and not accepted... except for special circumstances... special circumstances being EA spending buckets of money to gain exclusive rights over the NFL lisence simply because they couldn't deal with the fact that Madden was made to look ordinary but ESPN 2k5! Now I hate NFL with a passion, but even I would go out and purposely support the pirating of all future EA Madden titles simply because if EA feel justified in taking money and business away from another company simply because their product can no longer compete with others, then why should we as consumers feel inclined to pay for their product, when it was that company's cowardly action that stemmed the flow of competition to that particular genre???

Thoughts?

I stated in numerous other threads that I really have little respect for NFL, but NFL fans have a right to see some competition for their loyalty in the gaming market and EA's effective monopolising of the genre will likely see the games get slack...

Note: Just to be double clear for people who may misunderstand this: I don't support pirating, my point is that a massive company like EA buying exclusive lisence to a gaming genre like the NFL has an effect on other less finacially powerfull company's far more crippling than piracy...
 
S

sanzar

Guest
Here's something someone else posted from another website in regard to EA's treatment of there own employee's:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
My significant other works for Electronic Arts, and I'm what you might call a disgruntled spouse.

EA's bright and shiny new corporate trademark is "Challenge Everything." Where this applies is not exactly clear. Churning out one licensed football game after another doesn't sound like challenging much of anything to me; it sounds like a money farm. To any EA executive that happens to read this, I have a good challenge for you: how about safe and sane labor practices for the people on whose backs you walk for your millions?

I am retaining some anonymity here because I have no illusions about what the consequences would be for my family if I was explicit. However, I also feel no impetus to shy away from sharing our story, because I know that it is too common to stick out among those of the thousands of engineers, artists, and designers that EA employs.

Our adventures with Electronic Arts began less than a year ago. The small game studio that my partner worked for collapsed as a result of foul play on the part of a big publisher -- another common story. Electronic Arts offered a job, the salary was right and the benefits were good, so my SO took it. I remember that they asked him in one of the interviews: "how do you feel about working long hours?" It's just a part of the game industry -- few studios can avoid a crunch as deadlines loom, so we thought nothing of it. When asked for specifics about what "working long hours" meant, the interviewers coughed and glossed on to the next question; now we know why.

Within weeks production had accelerated into a 'mild' crunch: eight hours six days a week. Not bad. Months remained until any real crunch would start, and the team was told that this "pre-crunch" was to prevent a big crunch toward the end; at this point any other need for a crunch seemed unlikely, as the project was dead on schedule. I don't know how many of the developers bought EA's explanation for the extended hours; we were new and naive so we did. The producers even set a deadline; they gave a specific date for the end of the crunch, which was still months away from the title's shipping date, so it seemed safe. That date came and went. And went, and went. When the next news came it was not about a reprieve; it was another acceleration: twelve hours six days a week, 9am to 10pm.

Weeks passed. Again the producers had given a termination date on this crunch that again they failed. Throughout this period the project remained on schedule. The long hours started to take its toll on the team; people grew irritable and some started to get ill. People dropped out in droves for a couple of days at a time, but then the team seemed to reach equilibrium again and they plowed ahead. The managers stopped even talking about a day when the hours would go back to normal.

Now, it seems, is the "real" crunch, the one that the producers of this title so wisely prepared their team for by running them into the ground ahead of time. The current mandatory hours are 9am to 10pm -- seven days a week -- with the occasional Saturday evening off for good behavior (at 6:30pm). This averages out to an eighty-five hour work week. Complaints that these once more extended hours combined with the team's existing fatigue would result in a greater number of mistakes made and an even greater amount of wasted energy were ignored.

The stress is taking its toll. After a certain number of hours spent working the eyes start to lose focus; after a certain number of weeks with only one day off fatigue starts to accrue and accumulate exponentially. There is a reason why there are two days in a weekend -- bad things happen to one's physical, emotional, and mental health if these days are cut short. The team is rapidly beginning to introduce as many flaws as they are removing.

And the kicker: for the honor of this treatment EA salaried employees receive a) no overtime; B) no compensation time! ('comp' time is the equalization of time off for overtime -- any hours spent during a crunch accrue into days off after the product has shipped); c) no additional sick or vacation leave. The time just goes away. Additionally, EA recently announced that, although in the past they have offered essentially a type of comp time in the form of a few weeks off at the end of a project, they no longer wish to do this, and employees shouldn't expect it. Further, since the production of various games is scattered, there was a concern on the part of the employees that developers would leave one crunch only to join another. EA's response was that they would attempt to minimize this, but would make no guarantees. This is unthinkable; they are pushing the team to individual physical health limits, and literally giving them nothing for it. Comp time is a staple in this industry, but EA as a corporation wishes to "minimize" this reprieve. One would think that the proper way to minimize comp time is to avoid crunch, but this brutal crunch has been on for months, and nary a whisper about any compensation leave, nor indeed of any end of this treatment.

This crunch also differs from crunch time in a smaller studio in that it was not an emergency effort to save a project from failure. Every step of the way, the project remained on schedule. Crunching neither accelerated this nor slowed it down; its effect on the actual product was not measurable. The extended hours were deliberate and planned; the management knew what they were doing as they did it. The love of my life comes home late at night complaining of a headache that will not go away and a chronically upset stomach, and my happy supportive smile is running out.

No one works in the game industry unless they love what they do. No one on that team is interested in producing an inferior product. My heart bleeds for this team precisely BECAUSE they are brilliant, talented individuals out to create something great. They are and were more than willing to work hard for the success of the title. But that good will has only been met with abuse. Amazingly, Electronic Arts was listed #91 on Fortune magazine's "100 Best Companies to Work For" in 2003.

EA's attitude toward this -- which is actually a part of company policy, it now appears -- has been (in an anonymous quotation that I've heard repeated by multiple managers), "If they don't like it, they can work someplace else." Put up or shut up and leave: this is the core of EA's Human Resources policy. The concept of ethics or compassion or even intelligence with regard to getting the most out of one's workforce never enters the equation: if they don't want to sacrifice their lives and their health and their talent so that a multibillion dollar corporation can continue its Godzilla-stomp through the game industry, they can work someplace else.

But can they?

The EA Mambo, paired with other giants such as Vivendi, Sony, and Microsoft, is rapidly either crushing or absorbing the vast majority of the business in game development. A few standalone studios that made their fortunes in previous eras -- Blizzard, Bioware, and Id come to mind -- manage to still survive, but 2004 saw the collapse of dozens of small game studios, no longer able to acquire contracts in the face of rapid and massive consolidation of game publishing companies. This is an epidemic hardly unfamiliar to anyone working in the industry. Though, of course, it is always the option of talent to go outside the industry, perhaps venturing into the booming commercial software development arena. (Read my tired attempt at sarcasm.)

To put some of this in perspective, I myself consider some figures. If EA truly believes that it needs to push its employees this hard -- I actually believe that they don't, and that it is a skewed operations perspective alone that results in the severity of their crunching, coupled with a certain expected amount of the inefficiency involved in running an enterprise as large as theirs -- the solution therefore should be to hire more engineers, or artists, or designers, as the case may be. Never should it be an option to punish one's workforce with ninety hour weeks; in any other industry the company in question would find itself sued out of business so fast its stock wouldn't even have time to tank. In its first weekend, Madden 2005 grossed $65 million. EA's annual revenue is approximately $2.5 billion. This company is not strapped for cash; their labor practices are inexcusable.

The interesting thing about this is an assumption that most of the employees seem to be operating under. Whenever the subject of hours come up, inevitably, it seems, someone mentions 'exemption'. They refer to a California law that supposedly exempts businesses from having to pay overtime to certain 'specialty' employees, including software programmers. This is Senate Bill 88. However, Senate Bill 88 specifically does not apply to the entertainment industry -- television, motion picture, and theater industries are specifically mentioned. Further, even in software, there is a pay minimum on the exemption: those exempt must be paid at least $90,000 annually. I can assure you that the majority of EA employees are in fact not in this pay bracket; ergo, these practices are not only unethical, they are illegal.

I look at our situation and I ask 'us': why do you stay? And the answer is that in all likelihood we won't; and in all likelihood if we had known that this would be the result of working for EA, we would have stayed far away in the first place. But all along the way there were deceptions, there were promises, there were assurances -- there was a big fancy office building with an expensive fish tank -- all of which in the end look like an elaborate scheme to keep a crop of employees on the project just long enough to get it shipped. And then if they need to, they hire in a new batch, fresh and ready to hear more promises that will not be kept; EA's turnover rate in engineering is approximately 50%. This is how EA works. So now we know, now we can move on, right? That seems to be what happens to everyone else. But it's not enough. Because in the end, regardless of what happens with our particular situation, this kind of "business" isn't right, and people need to know about it, which is why I write this today.

If I could get EA CEO Larry Probst on the phone, there are a few things I would ask him. "What's your salary?" would be merely a point of curiosity. The main thing I want to know is, Larry: you do realize what you're doing to your people, right? And you do realize that they ARE people, with physical limits, emotional lives, and families, right? Voices and talents and senses of humor and all that? That when you keep our husbands and wives and children in the office for ninety hours a week, sending them home exhausted and numb and frustrated with their lives, it's not just them you're hurting, but everyone around them, everyone who loves them? When you make your profit calculations and your cost analyses, you know that a great measure of that cost is being paid in raw human dignity, right?

Right?[/b]
Sorry, but after reading this, not only do I now condone the pirating of EA games, I would suggest that no one ever buys their product legitimately ever again...
 
P

pip

Guest
Where I'm from there is something called the employment act, known commonly everywhere as the "Labour Law". You all know what that is, so I'm not going to expand on that.

I am not allowed to work more than 45 hours a week (9 per day) without going into overtime. Overtime is paid at 1.5 my salary rate and if it's not specified in my contract that I have to work weekends/public holidays, any time worked during them is considered overtime. This is pretty much standard and cannot be changed.. Any job where a contract has been signed is bound by these basic rules.

If that happened to me I would have a field day with them at the commission of arbitration and I would walk out of there with quite a little nest egg.

Employers only try what their workers will let them get away with. So my sympathy for that person is rather limited.
 
S

sanzar

Guest
Originally posted by pip@Jan 15 2005, 05:08 PM
Where I'm from there is something called the employment act, known commonly everywhere as the "Labour Law". You all know what that is, so I'm not going to expand on that.

I am not allowed to work more than 45 hours a week (9 per day) without going into overtime. Overtime is paid at 1.5 my salary rate and if it's not specified in my contract that I have to work weekends/public holidays, any time worked during them is considered overtime. This is pretty much standard and cannot be changed.. Any job where a contract has been signed is bound by these basic rules.

If that happened to me I would have a field day with them at the commission of arbitration and I would walk out of there with quite a little nest egg.

Employers only try what their workers will let them get away with. So my sympathy for that person is rather limited.
They may make them enter a enterprize bargening agreement... in which case they could do whatever they want...
You also have to remember that the gaming industry is still a comparitively new one and that organised labour has been all but snuffed out in places like the US...
 
R

Ripper

Guest
Originally posted by sanzar@Jan 15 2005, 03:36 PM
Note: Just to be double clear for people who may misunderstand this: I don't support pirating, my point is that a massive company like EA buying exclusive lisence to a gaming genre like the NFL has an effect on other less finacially powerfull company's far more crippling than piracy...
Weve been through this before...

EA Won the Rights in a bidding process, meaning the NFL put up the rights to the Highest Bidder, meaning that EA werent the only one who went after the exclusive deal, no doubt ESPN too also put a bid in...
 
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sanzar

Guest
Originally posted by Ripper+Jan 15 2005, 06:34 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ripper @ Jan 15 2005, 06:34 PM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-sanzar
@Jan 15 2005, 03:36 PM
Note: Just to be double clear for people who may misunderstand this: I don't support pirating, my point is that a massive company like EA buying exclusive lisence to a gaming genre like the NFL has an effect on other less finacially powerfull company's far more crippling than piracy...
Weve been through this before...

EA Won the Rights in a bidding process, meaning the NFL put up the rights to the Highest Bidder, meaning that EA werent the only one who went after the exclusive deal, no doubt ESPN too also put a bid in... [/b]
I wasn't aware of that, however that only means that the NFL has equally as much to answer for... exclusivity will not help the genre in any way shape or form...
 
D

DawieDieKabouter

Guest
I'm a programmer that can relate to the EA-thing, this overwork they are talking about is not just getting tired, they are talking about huge physical pain. After doing one of these crunches, alot of my mucles tied up and made knots in my back and at the top of my neck where your head connects, the back mucles nerve pains extended and makes knots in your shoulders, then it extends to your chest between your ribs, eventially knots finds it's way to your lower ribs. All in all you find yourself at a stage where sitting in a chair for a few minutes makes you get beating pains in your chest, you get shortness of breath, and headaches from neckpains. These doen'st just go away, remember that you still have to work and that holidays are just to short to recover. When I first started with these pains, I once got a heart-attack scare, thus pain in the chest, irregular heartbeat, pain going threw the shoulder and extending threw my right arm, I ended up passed out because my blood circulation was messed. At the hospital I was hooked up to get an ECG-scan, and it was normal, the doctor checked me and told me that it was a panick-attack because of the over-work, blood circulation being cut-off because of the knots, my body saying enough is enough. So I was fine. The disturbing part is that he said that it was very common, alot of people goes threw it everyday. 1 and a half years on and I'm still not fine, at the moment I'm almost at that point again, but luckily my job will have me standing and moving around more this year. I've done physiotherapy and tried to keep on the excersizes they give you, but it is more than a relief than a fixing of the problem. The only way to prevent it is to sit 100% in the right position and take breaks every half hour. When installing a Microsoft keyboard or mouse they have a point where they tell you a bit about RSI, they are not joking when they warn you, they even say that RSI counts for 80% of the reason why people quit their job in the US. All this is not a joke, I'm still young and don't want to live with this disscomfort.

All the people reading that ain't working yet, take this advice, keep away from a all-day desk job, money aint worth the discomfort you could go threw.

Bugger EA, their games are crap anyway, now we know why.
 
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Serge

Guest
Originally posted by sanzar@Jan 15 2005, 04:36 PM
I just posted this rant in another thread on league unlimited and wondered how many people would agreed with me here:

I agree that pirating should be totally shunned and not accepted... except for special circumstances... special circumstances being EA spending buckets of money to gain exclusive rights over the NFL lisence simply because they couldn't deal with the fact that Madden was made to look ordinary but ESPN 2k5! Now I hate NFL with a passion, but even I would go out and purposely support the pirating of all future EA Madden titles simply because if EA feel justified in taking money and business away from another company simply because their product can no longer compete with others, then why should we as consumers feel inclined to pay for their product, when it was that company's cowardly action that stemmed the flow of competition to that particular genre???

Thoughts?

I stated in numerous other threads that I really have little respect for NFL, but NFL fans have a right to see some competition for their loyalty in the gaming market and EA's effective monopolising of the genre will likely see the games get slack...

Note: Just to be double clear for people who may misunderstand this: I don't support pirating, my point is that a massive company like EA buying exclusive lisence to a gaming genre like the NFL has an effect on other less finacially powerfull company's far more crippling than piracy...
Thou Shalt not steal
 
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sanzar

Guest
Originally posted by Serge@Jan 15 2005, 10:09 PM
Thou Shalt not steal
Robin Hood stole...


Anyway this sort of thing is different... I have a mate who divides up the price of a game between 4 friends and they buy 1 official copy and burn 3 off for the others... This is technically not stealing as they all purchased the game legally, all they are doing is making back ups so they can all play it similatniously.
 
A

ak47

Guest
Originally posted by Ripper+Jan 15 2005, 06:34 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ripper @ Jan 15 2005, 06:34 PM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-sanzar
@Jan 15 2005, 03:36 PM
Note: Just to be double clear for people who may misunderstand this: I don't support pirating, my point is that a massive company like EA buying exclusive lisence to a gaming genre like the NFL has an effect on other less finacially powerfull company's far more crippling than piracy...
Weve been through this before...

EA Won the Rights in a bidding process, meaning the NFL put up the rights to the Highest Bidder, meaning that EA werent the only one who went after the exclusive deal, no doubt ESPN too also put a bid in... [/b]
money talks ripper

obviously EA have more $$ than Sega sports - Not ESPN, coz ESPN is just a name of a channel on the cover of a sega game.

Richard Branson has been in Somalia for a week and is getting very hungry

There a bidding auction for a lamb roast, for the whole community and highest bidder wins the food.

Richard Branson dips into his pocket and finds 3 euro which happens to me more than what all of the somalians have put together

Richard wins the food, but we know whom deserves it more!!!

The carriers of the food, should not be setting those types of conditions to win the food...................ie if u got $$$ u win, as oppposed to if u got brains, if u deserve it more, etc etc.


sure EA won it, coz they paid more for it............but does that mean they trul deserve it more............well apparantly not, based on hard NFL enthusiasts.
ESPN 2004 was better then Madden
and apparantly ESPN 2005 beats Madden 2005 again.
And how do u know the EA board didnt approach the NFL, and hint to sell the exclusive rights, in order for EA (a long time friend of NFL, and Madden, voice of NFL, to stay alive in the Madden franchise).
EA may have said - we've scratched ur back, since 1990, its time to scratch our back, coz we are sinking and ESPN and drowning us.
 
E

..::ERIC::..

Guest
Its hard to say. I say no because basicly I don't have a dvd burner or mod-chipped Ps2. I spend like $100 every 3 or 4 months on a new game. However, I can't say I strongly disagree with it when I openly nrub music.
 
R

Ripper

Guest
Originally posted by ak47@Jan 17 2005, 10:47 AM
EA may have said - we've scratched ur back, since 1990, its time to scratch our back, coz we are sinking and ESPN and drowning us.
Yes, EA were ******** themselves, ecspecially when they saw the figures where they sold more copies of Madden 2005 in the first week than NFL 2K5 did in the first month...

And maybe... Just maybe, NFL took advantage of an opportuinity to make a quick Billion Dollars...
 
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ak47

Guest
Originally posted by Ripper+Jan 17 2005, 01:57 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ripper @ Jan 17 2005, 01:57 PM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-ak47
@Jan 17 2005, 10:47 AM
EA may have said - we've scratched ur back, since 1990, its time to scratch our back, coz we are sinking and ESPN and drowning us.
Yes, EA were ******** themselves, ecspecially when they saw the figures where they sold more copies of Madden 2005 in the first week than NFL 2K5 did in the first month...

And maybe... Just maybe, NFL took advantage of an opportuinity to make a quick Billion Dollars... [/b]
it has more to do with market share

it is known ESPN has taken a chunk of market share from Madden

and when u have Maddens worldwide release and ESPN's domestic release (pending rest of the world), u cannot compare quantity of sales - of course a game that is available to the world will sell more, than a game only sold in the USA.
ESPN has only very recently been available outside the USA.

It is also a very known fact ESPN users were ex-maddenites, which is evidence Madden is losing a chunk of market share

of course their sales increase, so does population
market share % is down especially since ESPN's existence
 
J

-JJ-

Guest
I'm still waiting for ESPN NFL 2K5! Should be released this Friday...
 
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sanzar

Guest
Originally posted by Ripper+Jan 17 2005, 01:57 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ripper @ Jan 17 2005, 01:57 PM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-ak47
@Jan 17 2005, 10:47 AM
EA may have said - we've scratched ur back, since 1990, its time to scratch our back, coz we are sinking and ESPN and drowning us.
Yes, EA were ******** themselves, ecspecially when they saw the figures where they sold more copies of Madden 2005 in the first week than NFL 2K5 did in the first month...

And maybe... Just maybe, NFL took advantage of an opportuinity to make a quick Billion Dollars... [/b]
Why the f*** are you defending them ripper??? Are you stupid or something? YOU DON'T WORK FOR EA!!! You won't see anything, ANYTHING, good come from this! Don't you understand that??? Don't you understand that having the ESPN series actually heightened competition and resulted in better games from both companies? If your a fan of NFL games then this should be devestating to you! As it effectively means EA can slack off in their next 5 installments, safe in the knowledge they have no competition!
Do you get it yet?
 
R

Ripper

Guest
Originally posted by sanzar+Jan 17 2005, 05:41 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sanzar @ Jan 17 2005, 05:41 PM)</div>
Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 01:57 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-ak47
@Jan 17 2005, 10:47 AM
EA may have said - we've scratched ur back, since 1990, its time to scratch our back, coz we are sinking and ESPN and drowning us.

Yes, EA were ******** themselves, ecspecially when they saw the figures where they sold more copies of Madden 2005 in the first week than NFL 2K5 did in the first month...

And maybe... Just maybe, NFL took advantage of an opportuinity to make a quick Billion Dollars...
Why the f*** are you defending them ripper??? Are you stupid or something? YOU DON'T WORK FOR EA!!! You won't see anything, ANYTHING, good come from this! Don't you understand that??? Don't you understand that having the ESPN series actually heightened competition and resulted in better games from both companies? If your a fan of NFL games then this should be devestating to you! As it effectively means EA can slack off in their next 5 installments, safe in the knowledge they have no competition!
Do you get it yet? [/b]
Not really, because the NFL have a say on what goes out and I highly doubt they are gonna let a piece of **** go out because no doubt they get a cut of whatever profit Madden makes. Besides, ESPN is no loss for me, NFL 2K5 was worse than 2K4.

As long as EA dont try to get an exclusive NBA and NHL Rights ill be happy... (NBA Live and The EA NHL Games are ****)
 
A

ak47

Guest
Originally posted by Ripper+Jan 17 2005, 06:45 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ripper @ Jan 17 2005, 06:45 PM)</div>
Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 01:57 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-ak47
@Jan 17 2005, 10:47 AM
EA may have said - we've scratched ur back, since 1990, its time to scratch our back, coz we are sinking and ESPN and drowning us.

Yes, EA were ******** themselves, ecspecially when they saw the figures where they sold more copies of Madden 2005 in the first week than NFL 2K5 did in the first month...

And maybe... Just maybe, NFL took advantage of an opportuinity to make a quick Billion Dollars...

Why the f*** are you defending them ripper??? Are you stupid or something? YOU DON'T WORK FOR EA!!! You won't see anything, ANYTHING, good come from this! Don't you understand that??? Don't you understand that having the ESPN series actually heightened competition and resulted in better games from both companies? If your a fan of NFL games then this should be devestating to you! As it effectively means EA can slack off in their next 5 installments, safe in the knowledge they have no competition!
Do you get it yet?
Not really, because the NFL have a say on what goes out and I highly doubt they are gonna let a piece of **** go out because no doubt they get a cut of whatever profit Madden makes. Besides, ESPN is no loss for me, NFL 2K5 was worse than 2K4.

As long as EA dont try to get an exclusive NBA and NHL Rights ill be happy... (NBA Live and The EA NHL Games are ****) [/b]
forget it ripper

there's only one sport left that EA dominate in - Golf, TW2005

#1NFL - ESPN
#1 NBA - ESPN
#1 NHL - ESPN
YES ESPN DOMINATE US SPORTS, ALL VERSIONS ARE BETTER THAN EA EFFORTS, even the NCAA versions of these sports

#1SOCCER - PES
#1RUGBY - WCR or JLR - EITHER WAY ITS THE SAME BLOKES
#1 FORMULA 1 - SONYS FORMULA 1
#1 GOLF - TW2005

AND SOON THEY WILL LOSE THE MONOPOLY IN CRICKET, MEANING THEY HAVE LOST THAT BATTLE TOO.

Slowly but surely EAsports is sinking to its competitors and u can bet ur bottom dollar they'll try every caniving trick in the corporate book, to stay afloat by officially liscensing every sport to themselves, meaning the better games will have fictional characteristics however supreme gameplay - in the end WE LOSE.
 
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Ripper

Guest
Originally posted by ak47@Jan 18 2005, 08:12 AM
YES ESPN DOMINATE US SPORTS, ALL VERSIONS ARE BETTER THAN EA EFFORTS, even the NCAA versions of these sports
EA Dominate NCAA Football, not sure about Basketball since I havent played March Maddness nor College Hoops

and Madden > ESPN 2K
 
R

Ripper

Guest
Originally posted by ak47@Jan 18 2005, 08:12 AM
Slowly but surely EAsports is sinking to its competitors and u can bet ur bottom dollar they'll try every caniving trick in the corporate book, to stay afloat by officially liscensing every sport to themselves, meaning the better games will have fictional characteristics however supreme gameplay - in the end WE LOSE.
Whats the bet you wouldnt mind if ESPN got the rights... would you be carping on about how Evil Sega are and how they try to kill competition and what ever Marxist Lenin Babble you can think of...

CAPITALISM RULES!!

BTW you do know that ESPN & Madden are one and the same?
 
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