Champions Cup 15/16 - QF2 (Wasps vs Exeter Chiefs)

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

When one stands up, two people behind have to so they can see, then two more behind those two etc which means half the stand have to stand.....

Would not call you a tosser but would ask you to respect other people whose view you would be blocking!!

Watch the big screen at moments like that?

I only stood because all the people in front of me had stood and ironically I couldn't see the big screen behind us as people were standing in the way of that too.

It's a sporting match, people stand. The Exeter fans around us were really rude. That's not acceptable.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

Unwritten rules.....

I only stood because all the people in front of me had stood and ironically I couldn't see the big screen behind us as people were standing in the way of that too.

It's a sporting match, people stand. The Exeter fans around us were really rude. That's not acceptable.

As sad as it sounds this is one of the reasons I've stopped going to as much live sport. Basically the world appears to have split into two camps. Those that assume that unwritten rules are binding and apply to everybody regardless of how often they'd been to an event before (I'm like this to be honest) and those that assume that going to sports events is free for all fun. The best place is probably between those two poles but in my view the cult of the individual that is pervading society is also winning the day at Rugby. Certainly Twickenham has changed from a slightly posh bonhomie to fairly aggressive drunken idiotic patriotism (small n nationalism I guess). I've taken abuse for asking politely for said drunkards to tone their language down just a bit in front of my seven year old boy. Apparently Rugby grounds aren't for kids so I should **** off.....................

No excuse for rude behaviour but the "I want to stand" crowd also annoy me (see above). If everyone sits, everyone sees. If Johnny I want to stand starts, then loads of people don't. That said, there are no rules. They aren't written it's just a wide world of interpreting the laws, a bit like the game itself. I guess we're all dealing with a bunch of 9's and now 15's these days.

That said, politeness costs nothing. Having a **** time at sports due to other is bloody miserable sorry you had a bad time. Probably just a frustrated type A (like me)..................

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Money wins again.
Bad for the game.

C'mon man! Our squad has a backbone of British talent which we have built in increments from season to season and has been in a work in progress for about 5 years. The difference is that now we have been able to add a couple of choice internationals such as Halai and Piutau for the x-factor. The likes of Leinster, Munster and other dominant European sides have always had this luxury. There's still a good number of players in that squad who either came up with the wasps academy or who were plucked from obscurity and have become key first teamers

Even when Wasps were winning trophies we were messed up financially and it eventually caught up with us. I don't think that level of insecurity is to be applauded or admired.

I don't think having money per se is a bad thing especially if its backing the substance of a well run club where the academy is important to the club


Also, I like Exeter too but completely agree with @Tigs Man that they are not a squad of complete nobodies. That was once true but no longer and from next season especially with the aussies incoming they are going to start to look like a very star-strung side.

 

[Raggs]

I'd bet exeter have spent a lot more on their squad in the past 5 years than Wasps have. I believe this is the first season we've reached the cap in years, it's not something new for exeter. Whilst they didn't have many star names before, they had a squad packed with good players all over, and very solid depth in there too.

But Olyy is a Sale supporter, so he's a bit sore with Wasps at the moment (their players are coming to us, even when being offered more by Sharks).

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think having money per se is a bad thing especially if its backing the substance of a well run club where the academy is important to the club

Four academy players in the 23...

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Four academy players in the 23...

Ok so I could be wrong about this but I think there might have only been 3 Academy players in Chiefs 23?
1) LCD
2) Slade
3) Nowell

Plus one of Wasps' own in Alec Hepburn?

Wasps were on the brink of financial oblivion a few years ago... just seems a bit silly to criticise them for finding a stable footing.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Moon and Lewis.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Surely if you've got no money you'd rely more on your youth, rather than buying in players?
We've been struggling to keep our heads above water since professionalism came in, but produce a lot.

 

[brokenoses]

''Jack Nowell, Luke Cowan-Dickie, Ben Moon, Dave Lewis, Sam Hill, Henry Slade and Dave Ewers are Academy players who have all established themselves at the highest level. Players who are starting to break into regular premiership contention are: Jack Arnott, Max Bodilly, Ed Holmes, Sam Simmonds, Sam Skinner, Tom Hendrickson, Stu Townsend and Jack Innard.'' (Chiefs website)
Jack Yeandle and Sam Hill (as well as Stuart Hooper, Bath captain) both grew up and played for the same club that I do about 20 mins up the road from Exeter and there is still a scattering of the old Championship boys throughout the squad. The chairman Tony Rowe is local and you can almost see the Baxter family farm from Sandy Park. Huge investment has been put into Devon rugby from the Chiefs with Ivybridge, Truro, Bicton and Exeter College all now Chiefs academies.

I agree that Exeter are no longer a team of nobodies but it would be unfair to suggest that they buy in talent. Almost every player brought into the Chiefs has flourished in the environment and taken on a new lease of life compared to how they were at their former clubs. Not to mention that Chiefs are firmly under their salary cap and despite not receiving the same funding as other clubs do from Premiership Rugby, ''the turnover of the club was up almost £2 million or 17 per cent year on year, whilst net profit after interest and depreciation was just under £900,000.'' (Express & Echo). Chiefs have a squad built on local boys and the grafting old guard nobody has heard of, with a smattering of rejects and has beens (tongue in cheek, a bit). I can see a lot of talent emerging from Devon and Cornwall in the future largely due to the way the Exeter Chiefs organisation is run. It could also be due to the pasty/cream tea intake and the fact were all cr*p at football down here, who knows.

By the way, by no means am I inferring that other clubs do not have a similar situation and ethic, Wasps included. This wasn't written to snub anybody else, just to try and illustrate whats going on down here.

 

[Raggs]

Surely if you've got no money you'd rely more on your youth, rather than buying in players?
We've been struggling to keep our heads above water since professionalism came in, but produce a lot.

That's the difference between some money and no money. Wasps had no money. When you have no money, you spend as little as possible on anything that isn't the people keeping the business actually alive. Dai Young was paying for medical supplies and the coach for away games, and wasn't paid himself for 3 months. I think the only coaches we had were Dai Young and Shane Howarth, Dai was not only DOR, but head coach, forwards coach, and probably covered as much of the defence as possible. We stripped our academy bare and took anyone of promise into the squad, hence Launchbury (he was dropped by quins, and placed in our academy, whether you like it or not, he was Wasps academy), Daly, Wade and Jones.

EDIT - I don't know what connections you have with chiefs, but someone i chat to regularly, and used to do analyst work in the AP and still has decent contacts, told me that chiefs were regularly reaching the salary cap. As pointed out, no star players, but very solid men across the pitch, and decent depth.

 

[brokenoses]

There are people I know that are involved due to my club being close etc but no exclusive info or anything like that. But yeah I should have worded the salary cap part as you did. As far as I was aware, they haven't breached the salary cap.

Regarding the match, despite the gutting result I was thoroughly entertained the whole way through. Hugely encouraged by the performance of both sets of players as well as the management and the fans. A big day for English club rugby and a good advertisement for NH rugby to counter its too-often-justified reputation. I'm looking forward to the remaining Chiefs/Wasps matches as are both sets of fans I'm sure.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Launchbury can't claim academy credits so why should he be classed as an academy product?

 

[Raggs]

There are people I know that are involved due to my club being close etc but no exclusive info or anything like that. But yeah I should have worded the salary cap part as you did. As far as I was aware, they haven't breached the salary cap.

Regarding the match, despite the gutting result I was thoroughly entertained the whole way through. Hugely encouraged by the performance of both sets of players as well as the management and the fans. A big day for English club rugby and a good advertisement for NH rugby to counter its too-often-justified reputation. I'm looking forward to the remaining Chiefs/Wasps matches as are both sets of fans I'm sure.

Nope, wouldn't have suggested chiefs breached the cap at any time.

I don't mind chiefs winning the next one, as long as the last one is won by Wasps .

Tigs man, fine, let's not class him as Wasps academy then. So what. As pointed out, we gutted our academy and whilst obviously would have spent the money set aside for it, on it, any additional spending would have gone elsewhere.

Now the academy is on the up again, money being spent, and our u18s did rather well, our u16/17s smashed one of the Irish provinces u16/17 side a week or so ago, and once the move is fully settled, it will only get stronger. But it will still take seasons to actually get anywhere, since that's the nature of the beast with academies. Look at Sarries, took them a few seasons to get going, but now pumping out extremely talented individuals. I've no issue if Wasps go the same route (and at least we're doing it in more style!).

 

[Tony Manx]

No matter, cannot see past Saracens!!

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Interesting discussion going on regarding Wasps and their squad here. I see the squad has a lot of interesting players brought in and developed under Dai Young ... Thomas Young not wanted at the Blues, let go and his dad pounced on him, Wasps developed him and he's turned into a good player. Jake Cooper-Wolley, Quins youngster, left for Cardiff Uni, signed with the Blues, got a nasty knee injury, returned home to London and got a deal with Wasps and under Dai has turned into a solid tight head. Wasps have signed players from elsewhere and developed them. It is not like they are going after monstrous names ala Toulon, Racing etc?

 

[ratsapprentice]

It is not like they are going after monstrous names ala Toulon, Racing etc?

They seem to be now that they have the resources to do so.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

They seem to be now that they have the resources to do so.

Both Piutaus, Halai, etc. there's a few, undeniably.

 

[Raggs]

Halai was hardly ripping up trees when he left NZ. Nowhere near the ABs, and struggling to even get a start at the blues at times.

Charles was fortunate for us, that he was at a loose end, and joining Frank probably sounded like a decent idea.

Siale was obviously this giant of the game that everyone knew beforehand... brought in as a medical joker after we lost 4 or 5 centre options.

Smith was widely questioned as over the hill, and whilst perhaps a decent bit of business, I don't think anyone suspected he'd perform as he has.

Gopperth was getting ridiculed left right and centre at Leinster, and was apparently no more than a "boot it and see" guy, who could no longer kick from the tee that reliably.

We've been linked to some big names recently, but the only one out of the Pocock, Manu, Beale, Nonu, Basteraud, Alberts, Gorgodze rumours may yet come true, otherwise it's all been a huge pile of press "Wasps have money, they must be bidding". And we only got Cips because he got cold feet with O'Shea leaving Quins.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Every top end teams needs to buy in some star players though every team does it. Even London Irish have some for goodness sake!

The key is to have a backbone from the academy and then build around that on your weakness in the squad. Even Quinn's have realised you need the big names to give you that extra level.

 

[Raggs]

I've said it before, but I do wonder if have 15+ EQP players in every game is actually the best idea.

Sure, if they're all top quality players it works out, but to improve, players need to be playing with other top players, in high quality games. If you look at how much some of the Wasps EQP players have improved almost certainly due to the added competition and wisdom given by these high quality imports, I'm not sure that's a bad thing. We've been playing faster and a higher intensity, than we could if we'd not had high quality players in every position (and depth).

Squad filler is a problem, those foreign players who get 2-3 games a season, that could be used on an up and coming EQP, is problematic. But there are a lot of bang average English players out there, who whilst they do indeed keep the EQP numbers higher, they provide sod all boost with regards to improving the quality of the game in England, or the national side. I'd rather see them replaced with top quality non-eqps, who drive the quality of the AP up, and get those good quality EQPs playing to a higher level consistently, and expose the younger guys to the sort of quality they need to drive themselves to become. I suggested having a high minimum wage for foreign players to ensure high quality imports only, though that's likely illegal.