Cheetahs and Kings to join "Pro 14"

[Leonormous Boozer]

We'll see what happens then.

BTW, talking about Ireland - didn't they once have Shannon as a region? Fionn McLaughlin lived near me, many years ago (I'm 32 on Tuesday, so would have been 1990s-2000s) and I think that both he and his Dad 'Ginger' played for them/their predecessor respectively.

Shanno is a club in the amateur All Ireland league, had a brief stint as semi-pro but would never have competed in continental competition.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Shanno is a club in the amateur All Ireland league, had a brief stint as semi-pro but would never have competed in continental competition.

There was a bit of a debate when the game turned pro as to how Ireland would professionalize. Clubs were far more popular than provinces in the early-mid 1990s but the IRFU took the correct, if unpopular in some quarters, call. Shannon had a great team in those days.

 

[Groundhog]

AIL was originally envisaged as a lot more professional than it turned out to be in its inception. I know that my club really pulled out a lot of stops and spent quite a bit of money to bring in quality players and move towards a pro looking setup and it bit them in the ass hard. Most of the momentum in the tournament has shifted towards Dublin for obvious reasons and Cork because the big clubs there are very good at luring guys to play for them for whatever reason.
Just to add on the Pro 12 teams, I would say that any of Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Glasgow, Scarlets and Ospreys and maybe Connacht if they sorted themselves out a bit could win this tournament. Cardiff are my bolters for a really good season too. We've seen a few fairytale seasons recently and the competition is improving a lot I feel. The Italians still represent nothing more than a speed bump, as do Dragons normally. Edinburgh blow pretty hot and cold.
Munster and Ulster definitely have the depth now to field very good sides during international periods, which is especially impressive for Leinster considering how many players they lose. There's definitely a case to be made that they're the best side in it, but they're not a complete team yet still. Could change if their signings come good. We've made some very nice signings for next season, but nothing will ever replace Ryan. We won't be going all the way in Europe this year I would say, but I'd say we're as good behind the scrum as we've ever been if Bleyndaal can play like he did for most of last season.
Kinda unrelated, but Freuen signing for Edinburgh flew over my head completely. Nice bloody pickup.

 

[unrated]

The SARU CEO Jurie Roux said that the Pro 14 will have exactly the same selection criteria as Super rugby for the Springboks.

What does this mean?
We know that all the players in the Sa Super rugby sides qualify to play for the Springboks.
So we can assume with confidence that the Cheetahs and Kings players will be eligible for the Springboks while playing in the pro 14.

The res question is this. Does Sa players who play for Australian and NZ franchises in Super rugby qualify for the Springboks? Did Jacques Potgieter qualify when he was playing at the Tahs? And then if they do will SA player who play for other teams such as Munster and Ulster be able to qualify for the Springboks?

I hope a journalist can actually ask them this with the next press conference.

 

[TRF_heineken]

The SARU CEO Jurie Roux said that the Pro 14 will have exactly the same selection criteria as Super rugby for the Springboks.

What does this mean?
We know that all the players in the Sa Super rugby sides qualify to play for the Springboks.
So we can assume with confidence that the Cheetahs and Kings players will be eligible for the Springboks while playing in the pro 14.

The res question is this. Does Sa players who play for Australian and NZ franchises in Super rugby qualify for the Springboks? Did Jacques Potgieter qualify when he was playing at the Tahs? And then if they do will SA player who play for other teams such as Munster and Ulster be able to qualify for the Springboks?

I hope a journalist can actually ask them this with the next press conference.

The way I see it, is that to be eliglible for the Springboks, you have to play for an SA team. Jacques Potgieter became a springbok before he was with the Tahs, and didn't play for SA during the time he was in Oz, or even afterwards for that matter.

I guess this means that SA players playing for other teams in the same tournament as SA teams are not eligible...

 

[Amiga500]

Cardiff are my bolters for a really good season too.

Cardiff have been the dark horses for how many seasons now?!?

Unfortunately, I'll wait till there is hard evidence of a change in attitude and performance in the Blues!

 

[Groundhog]

Cardiff have been the dark horses for how many seasons now?!?

Unfortunately, I'll wait till there is hard evidence of a change in attitude and performance in the Blues!

I just didn't feel comfortable listing them as **** as they're capable of beating most sides with their heads screwed on, especially on that bloody pitch of theirs, but not in actual contention to win the yoke.
Just looking at the list of Pro 14 signings I would say that Glasgow and Edinburgh have both made some nice signings for next season. Didn't realise Kebble had signed for Glasgow, I know we wanted him for a bit.

 

[bushytop]

Cardiff have been the dark horses for how many seasons now?!?

Unfortunately, I'll wait till there is hard evidence of a change in attitude and performance in the Blues!

I actually live in Cardiff and the apathy around the Blues (in the capital city of a country who loves rugby like no other [apart from NZ & mmaaayyyybbbbeee SA]) is almost as embarrassing as the average level of performance produced by the region.

In fairness to Danny Wilson he has provided a level of consistency that a lot of higher paid coaches have struggled to do so while they were in charge but they are just such a constant disappointment. Looking back to the times that Dai Young used to get such a bad wrap... the subsequent seasons since he left (together with the job he's doing at Wasps) suggests he didn't do such a bad job.

Me and the misses will be attending the first few Scarlets home games this season, hoping we may see a Welsh club side produce the goods, as we have given up with the Blues (for a while at least).

 

[dullonien]

I actually live in Cardiff and the apathy around the Blues (in the capital city of a country who loves rugby like no other [apart from NZ & mmaaayyyybbbbeee SA]) is almost as embarrassing as the average level of performance produced by the region.

In fairness to Danny Wilson he has provided a level of consistency that a lot of higher paid coaches have struggled to do so while they were in charge but they are just such a constant disappointment. Looking back to the times that Dai Young used to get such a bad wrap... the subsequent seasons since he left (together with the job he's doing at Wasps) suggests he didn't do such a bad job.

Me and the misses will be attending the first few Scarlets home games this season, hoping we may see a Welsh club side produce the goods, as we have given up with the Blues (for a while at least).

I don't think the coaches can be completely blamed (although there's been some shocking coaching appointments over the years, including Phil Davies & Baber+Burnell).

Dai Young had an impressive squad at his disposal, with quality throughout with Jenkins, Felise, ***o, Bradley Davies, Nugget, Rush, Nicky Robinson, Roberts, Shanks, Tom James, Blair, Halfpenny etc. all in their primes/playing the best rugby of their careers. There's still some quality in the Blues ranks, but there's too many positions where the Blues are relying on ageing players (their first choice props are what 37 and 40 years old? and their only genuine option at 8 is a player who's struggling to stay fit), in other key positions they're struggling for quality (lock).

The revolving door of coaches, both head coach and backroom staff has done them no favours either. I rate Danny Wilson very highly, and on the whole he's getting the Blues going in the right direction; but they will always struggle against the best with a shallow squad depth and no investment in players. Peter Thomas may be unwilling to plough more money into the region, but by doing nothing I fear it could simply erode further.

If Wilson can keep his best players fit, the Blues will be competitive to a point, but they will lose close matches when they're forced to bring young rookies off the bench at prop in the last quarter for example.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Davids has signed on as Kings coach for three years, which is great as I rate him. I think the Kings would have bombed mightily if he'd left as well as a few of his key players.

He seems to allude to being able to strengthen his squad after October when Super Rugby contracts expire. Or he is saying it is not possible. Pardon my ignorance but is there a ban on mid-season signings in the Pro14, or a mid-season transfer window?

http://www.pro14rugby.org/2017/08/15/deon-davids-lead-exciting-southern-kings-team-guinness-pro14/

 

[bushytop]

I don't think the coaches can be completely blamed (although there's been some shocking coaching appointments over the years, including Phil Davies & Baber+Burnell).

Dai Young had an impressive squad at his disposal, with quality throughout with Jenkins, Felise, ***o, Bradley Davies, Nugget, Rush, Nicky Robinson, Roberts, Shanks, Tom James, Blair, Halfpenny etc. all in their primes/playing the best rugby of their careers. There's still some quality in the Blues ranks, but there's too many positions where the Blues are relying on ageing players (their first choice props are what 37 and 40 years old? and their only genuine option at 8 is a player who's struggling to stay fit), in other key positions they're struggling for quality (lock).

The revolving door of coaches, both head coach and backroom staff has done them no favours either. I rate Danny Wilson very highly, and on the whole he's getting the Blues going in the right direction; but they will always struggle against the best with a shallow squad depth and no investment in players. Peter Thomas may be unwilling to plough more money into the region, but by doing nothing I fear it could simply erode further.

If Wilson can keep his best players fit, the Blues will be competitive to a point, but they will lose close matches when they're forced to bring young rookies off the bench at prop in the last quarter for example.

Agreed, Danny Wilson is doing okay with the players available to him, its the bureaucracy above his head and the heads of all Blues coaches historically that has resulted in the job being more akin to that of a politician than a rugby coach.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Davids has signed on as Kings coach for three years, which is great as I rate him. I think the Kings would have bombed mightily if he'd left as well as a few of his key players.

He seems to allude to being able to strengthen his squad after October when Super Rugby contracts expire. Or he is saying it is not possible. Pardon my ignorance but is there a ban on mid-season signings in the Pro14, or a mid-season transfer window?

http://www.pro14rugby.org/2017/08/15/deon-davids-lead-exciting-southern-kings-team-guinness-pro14/

Agreed Davids has done well to mold a group of no-name players into a mid table SR side in one year's time. Its fantastic for the Kings but IMO the bare minimum unfortunately as Davids will have to repeat his efforts. That list of 23 players makes for hard reading for Kings fans I'm sure.

I also find it hard to dicipher what Davids means regarding possible signings. The language really isn't clear at all. My guess would be that they will be looking to make a move or two if only because they curently only seem to have 23 players on the books if that list is to be taken as the mark. I really don't know a lot of those players. Those I do know are either players who can't get a look in elsewhere or are juniors. That said Cloete awas unwanted by the Stormers (despite my saying we should be looking to get him in two years back as he was the only out and out fetcher on our books) and Lionel Cronje couldn't catch a break elsewhere either so maybe Davids knows how to get the most out of these guys.

(#s not indicative of position mind you
1. Berton Klaasen 2. Bobby de Wee 3. CJ Velleman 4. Cornal Hendricks 5. Dries van Schalkwyk 6. Jacques Nel 7. Jarryd Sage 8. Khaya Majola 9. Lubabalo Mtyanda 10. Lusanda Badiyana 11. Masixole Banda 12. Ntabeni Dukisa 13. Oliver Zono
14. Pieter-Steyn de Wet 15. Rowan Gouws 16. Sbusiso Sithole 17. Schalk Ferreira 18. Stephan Greeff 19. Tango Balekile
20. Tienie Burger 21. Victor Sekekete 22. Yaw Penxe 23. Kurt Coleman

He seriously needs more forwards. I'd go shopping at the Pumas and Griquas if I were him. And maybe look to see if he can't snatch up an old-timer with experience in Euro tournaments to steady the ship.

 

[profitius]

It's a bit of a shamble for the kings at the moment (not of their own making) but with no rugby for the other teams except Cheetahs, there might be some good players they can get a loan of.

 

[saulan]

It's a bit of a shamble for the kings at the moment (not of their own making) but with no rugby for the other teams except Cheetahs, there might be some good players they can get a loan of.

No rugby? Most of them are playing Currie Cup or with the Springboks, I think I saw somewhere that they will target players once the Currie Cup ends, but that's October/November. They signed a few players this past week, but most of them were youth up and comers (Jaryd Sage is an interesting one) and off cuts from other clubs (Kurt Coleman from WP being the main one here).

 

[profitius]

No rugby? Most of them are playing Currie Cup or with the Springboks, I think I saw somewhere that they will target players once the Currie Cup ends, but that's October/November. They signed a few players this past week, but most of them were youth up and comers (Jaryd Sage is an interesting one) and off cuts from other clubs (Kurt Coleman from WP being the main one here).

I was talking about when the Currie cup season ends.

 

[TRF_heineken]

No rugby? Most of them are playing Currie Cup or with the Springboks, I think I saw somewhere that they will target players once the Currie Cup ends, but that's October/November. They signed a few players this past week, but most of them were youth up and comers (Jaryd Sage is an interesting one) and off cuts from other clubs (Kurt Coleman from WP being the main one here).

Correct. They are also waiting for SARU to give them the go ahead to sign players at certain clubs, or who has 7's contracts.

Basically they are waiting to hear if the majority of their Super Rugby squad's contracts can be renewed, no matter which union they are with.

 

[Groundhog]

Pardon my ignorance but is there a ban on mid-season signings in the Pro14, or a mid-season transfer window?

http://www.pro14rugby.org/2017/08/15/deon-davids-lead-exciting-southern-kings-team-guinness-pro14/

Nah there's no windows in the competition or anything like that. We've signed temporary injury cover at many stages in the season and loaned players around a bit between provinces as well. I'm sure that extends to more permanent signings.
Also maybe of interest to Saffers and booted Super Rugby franchises alike is David Wessels being mentioned heavily as joining our coaching staff. Not sure if true, but I hope we make some announcements soon, we're in need of a Head Coach, DOR and Defence Coach.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

SARU drop a remark about possibly going down to three teams in Super Rugby.

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/south-afrfica-committed-to-sanzaar-roux/

Reasonable to conclude that they are considering the potential for another side to head north at some point.

 

[TRF_heineken]

SARU drop a remark about possibly going down to three teams in Super Rugby.

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/south-afrfica-committed-to-sanzaar-roux/

Reasonable to conclude that they are considering the potential for another side to head north at some point.

I'm not sure that's a hint. All that he's saying is that SARU has options at their disposal now with the possibility of joining European Tournaments. Whereas remaining exclusively with SANZAAR, there was no options and there is a limit to the amount of teams we can have.

I think if we look at feasibility, SA can certainly remain strong in Super Rugby if we have between 3-5 teams...

 

[unrated]

I don't think three teams is ever going to happen. The remaining franchises will fight tooth and nail in the courts to remain in super rugby. Saru probably won't try and cut it more at least in the immediate future.
Besides who will they cut if it goes to three?
Between
Lions
Bulls
Sharks
Stormers
It would need to be one of the Gauteng franchises in either the Lions or Bulls that gets cut if this does happen eventually. Otherwise we would literally just have teams in Joburg and Cape Town. Not very good for national interest in provincial rugby.