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Cheetahs and Kings to join "Pro 14"

Hadn't heard of him myself until he made his way to the international league.

Pro14 doing basic, but much needed summaries of each team to help fans find out a bit more about their new competitors. Glad to see the Kings are keeping their coach.

http://www.pro14rugby.org/2017/08/02/getting-know-southern-kings/

I'll be checking out Krasny Yar from Siberia and the hotbed of black African rugby the Kings as both visit Edinburgh this year. I'm so cosmopolitan. :p
 
Pienaar is contracted to Montpellier and not retired. Will not be available
TRF_heineken said:
I think the signings will start by next week. My suspicion is that most of the current squad will remain as the bulk of the team, the 7's players will not be part of the PRO14 group, and will just play Currie Cup, and then open up spots for other players to be signed on.

I think the guys that should be on the Cheetahs shopping list should be:
Johan Goosen
Franco v/d Merwe
Bismarck Du Plessis
Heinrich Brussouw
Ashley Johnson
Willie Le Roux

Now I know most of these guys have contracts in NH, but they are all part of the Cheetahs alumni (except Franco)...
Goosen is "retired" and in SA. Franco's contract hasn't been renewed and is basically a free agent.

Another guy that springs to mind is Ruan Pienaar, who is also retired. He can't play for Ulster anymore, but why not get him to return to the Cheetahs. His experience of playing in Ireland will be a massive attribute to have.
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Pienaar has joined Montpellier after the IRFU flat out refused to keep him, as opposed to being retired. Incredibly shortsighted from the IRFU, but there you go. Franco van der Merwe also only signed on for Cardiff for the coming season, so you will be seeing him, but not for the Cheetahs.
 
Groundhog said:
Pienaar is contracted to Montpellier and not retired. Will not be available

Pienaar has joined Montpellier after the IRFU flat out refused to keep him, as opposed to being retired. Incredibly shortsighted from the IRFU, but there you go. Franco van der Merwe also only signed on for Cardiff for the coming season, so you will be seeing him, but not for the Cheetahs.
Click to expand...

It is really short sighted now certain events have happened, he could be there 10 this season.

also Franco Van de Merve has been released from cardiff as they are running out of money rumoured to be off to London irish.
 
I wouldn't have thought either SA side in the Pro14 would be able to compete financially the English and French leagues, or even Super Rugby. I wouldn't expect an influx of proven talent unless things really take off.
 
Tigs Man said:
It is really short sighted now certain events have happened, he could be there 10 this season.

also Franco Van de Merve has been released from cardiff as they are running out of money rumoured to be off to London irish.
Click to expand...
Ah so I see. Viable possibility for Cheetahs I would say now so.
 
dullonien said:
Yup agree there. Wales cannot sustain another region at the moment no matter how much I'd like to see North Wales represented. RGC have made massive strides recently, but they would get battered by the Pro level teams, as shown by the battering they took from a 3rd choice Welsh side in the summer.

Scotland the same.

the expansion into SA is also for financial reasons, not just for the sake of adding more teams. Sa have a population of 65m, with rugby their primary sport, that's a huge market. I also wonder whether the Pro14 could generate more money for the SA sides than SR, in which case could we see SA's best players slowly migrate from Bulls etc? Would it even be tempting in the future for SA to pull out of SR entirely and enter all their sides a Pro league?
Click to expand...
Exactly. None of Ireland, Wales or Scotland can afford another team or have the depth. Irish provinces probably have the best depth at the moment but again that could change but the point is all provinces/regions are better off trying to master their current sides to a higher standard as a whole eg all provices/regions capable of competing.

On marketing side there is much more pros:
- More exposure due to time zones
- More interest as South African public will get to watch exiles more closer now.

On financial side it seems Cheetahs and Kings will get better financial deal from joining and Sharks and another South African team have already expressed a very serious interest in learning more. So time will tell.
 
I really don't see this being a major success, I hope I am wrong, I just don't think so. The southern kings and cheetahs have had pretty awful fan support to date. If that trend remains and you add in the cost of air travel to Europe for most of the season. I don't see how these teams can turn a profit and make it viable for them to continue operations.
 
profitius said:
Cheetahs are away to Ulster in their first game.
Click to expand...

Yup. On a Friday night. Confusing as media releases indicated ALL SA games would be on a Saturday. Presumably it means that all SA home games will be on Saturdays.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40830591

I'll be switching my iplayer settings to Northern Ireland for this one. A decent and likely competitive curtain raiser.
 
Matt7557 said:
I really don't see this being a major success, I hope I am wrong, I just don't think so. The southern kings and cheetahs have had pretty awful fan support to date. If that trend remains and you add in the cost of air travel to Europe for most of the season. I don't see how these teams can turn a profit and make it viable for them to continue operations.
Click to expand...

As i'm aware cheetahs have a decent fan base the trouble is that they are spread across a wide are (Could be wrong).
I mean looking at last season attendance
cheetahs would be placed 5th in the pro 12 interms of average attendance behind Ospreys, Munster, Ulster, Leinster
Kings would be placed 6th behind Glasgow, Ospreys, Munster, Ulster Leinster.

The majority of the money will be coming from TV though.
SA TV companies esp will be happy since it gives them rugby all year round basically in a rugby mad country, and SA TV is pretty big.
 
From Walesonline

OPENING GUINNESS PRO14 FIXTURES

September 1-2

Cardiff Blues v Edinburgh

Connacht v Glasgow

Dragons v Leinster

Munster v Treviso

Ospreys v Zebre

Scarlets v Southern Kings

Ulster v Toyota Cheetahs

September 8-9

Connacht v Southern Kings

Edinburgh v Dragons

Glasgow v Ospreys

Leinster v Cardiff Blues

Munster v Toyota Cheetahs

Treviso v Ulster

Zebre v Scarlets

September 15-16

Cardiff Blues v Glasgow

Dragons v Connacht

Edinburgh v Treviso

Ospreys v Munster

Southern Kings v Leinster

Toyota Cheetahs v Zebre

Ulster v Scarlets
 
Can somebody who's bored give me a bit of a summary of the pro 12 teams, who are the teams to beat, maybe a bit about how they play rugby? I'm super keen to get into some NH rugby, I've wanted to for a while but it's tough to get emotionally invested in a foreign team.

As for the Cheetahs and Kings here's a brief summary:
Cheetahs:
All out attack - rubbish defense is basically them in short.
They have an electric backline and tend to thrive off broken play, and rack up a decent score even when they receive a bit of a spanking.
Unfortunately their general decision making can be poor, and their defense is very porous, they tend to have very swingy games with wild score-lines but when the match is close and the Cheetahs are in it, they have a tendency to choke and let in a couple tries. They have a somewhat decent pack but nothing special with no stars, and a much more interesting backline with a dangerous back three
The very strong and organized teams can shut them down and break their spirit completely.

I'd expect them to be competitive and grab a few wins (with a few surprises) but ultimately they don't have the fire-power or BMT to really compete for a play-off spot. I'd imagine they'd find themselves in the bottom 4 but not wooden spooners, optimistically mid table.

Kings:
Kings actually finished mid table in Super Rugby in a better than expected year for them.
When they are good their success is predicated on a strong organised pack, with great decision making from their half-back pairing, probably more of a traditional South African side, but they do have some moves in the backs as well, particularly a small but fast and deadly back three.
Still the side is light on real talent and big names with their best two players (Lionel Cronje and Chris Cloete) heading elsewhere next year.

I think they'll beat any team they can get forward dominance over and have a chance where they can get parity, but they don't do to well off the back foot and ultimately may not have the talent.
It's very hard to say how they will fair but I suspect they will be in the lower/mid table level as well.


Very hard to see how either team will do but neither are push-overs. It's possible the NH conditions and travel will sink them though.
 
SomeOke said:
Can somebody who's bored give me a bit of a summary of the pro 12 teams, who are the teams to beat, maybe a bit about how they play rugby? I'm super keen to get into some NH rugby, I've wanted to for a while but it's tough to get emotionally invested in a foreign team.

As for the Cheetahs and Kings here's a brief summary:
Cheetahs:
All out attack - rubbish defense is basically them in short.
They have an electric backline and tend to thrive off broken play, and rack up a decent score even when they receive a bit of a spanking.
Unfortunately their general decision making can be poor, and their defense is very porous, they tend to have very swingy games with wild score-lines but when the match is close and the Cheetahs are in it, they have a tendency to choke and let in a couple tries. They have a somewhat decent pack but nothing special with no stars, and a much more interesting backline with a dangerous back three
The very strong and organized teams can shut them down and break their spirit completely.

I'd expect them to be competitive and grab a few wins (with a few surprises) but ultimately they don't have the fire-power or BMT to really compete for a play-off spot. I'd imagine they'd find themselves in the bottom 4 but not wooden spooners, optimistically mid table.

Kings:
Kings actually finished mid table in Super Rugby in a better than expected year for them.
When they are good their success is predicated on a strong organised pack, with great decision making from their half-back pairing, probably more of a traditional South African side, but they do have some moves in the backs as well, particularly a small but fast and deadly back three.
Still the side is light on real talent and big names with their best two players (Lionel Cronje and Chris Cloete) heading elsewhere next year.

I think they'll beat any team they can get forward dominance over and have a chance where they can get parity, but they don't do to well off the back foot and ultimately may not have the talent.
It's very hard to say how they will fair but I suspect they will be in the lower/mid table level as well.


Very hard to see how either team will do but neither are push-overs. It's possible the NH conditions and travel will sink them though.
Click to expand...
Scarlets - Champions - 1st time winners this year and it really came out of nowhere in the last 8weeks after a mediocre middle part of the season, gritty pack with an electric backline who outclassed the three tournament favourites in the last round of the regular season and playoffs to win easy.

Munster - What looked like it could have been an excellent season ended up trophy-less, a strong pack with some decent strike runners in the backs. Losing Rassie Erasmus and their star second row Donncha Ryan could harm them but they've padded the squad with Saffas.

Leinster - I'm bias here but they have the strongest squad, 25 internationals (off the top of my head, could be more) and James Lowe and Isa Nacewa had this side as European contenders last year. Bottle Jobs in both semis ruined a promising season, there's a lot of injury trouble in the backs for the start of the season could see them struggle.

Ospreys - Strong starting side but severely lack depth, not even a strong compliment of Welsh internationals helped them during Alum Wyn Jones's injury.

Ulster - Very different team to last year having lost Ryan Pienaar to Montpellier, who was fantastic for them, and their starting and reserve fly halves, both internationals to rape charges (case is yet to begin) won't harm the leading teams.

Glasgow - Another gritty side with class in the backs, new coaching staff could make a big difference, lack depth to compete with injuries if they happen.

Cardiff - Very run of the mill mid-table side, will have as many good wins as infuriating losses.

Connacht - 2016 champions but a real maverick side, Mauritz Boshoff never got going for a multitude of reasons and they were rudderless without a good 10, a 22 year old Aussie is being brought in to try to change this.

Edinburgh - a bad team with a little bit of potential but everything thing they do from top to bottom seems to be a mess.

Zebre, Treviso and Dragons - irrelevant, will pick up a handful of wins at home but not threaten anyone important.
 
Just to add that Edinburgh, Dragons, Connacht and Zebre are pretty much the poor cousins of their respective unions. They appear to get considerably less investment and assistance from the union in terms of players and coaching and are real underdogs.

Best to read the summaries the league are putting together for each team. Here is Glasgows.

http://www.pro14rugby.org/2017/08/04/getting-know-glasgow-warriors/
 
Saying that i think Edinburgh could come good this season IMO, maybe not in the top 6 or anything but i reckon they will certainly improve.

Cockers and that pack should at least be competitive.
 
Tigs Man said:
Saying that i think Edinburgh could come good this season IMO, maybe not in the top 6 or anything but i reckon they will certainly improve.

Cockers and that pack should at least be competitive.
Click to expand...

He is certainly saying the right things and I'd be confident he is the right sort of person to work on the mental fragility that Edinburgh show. They'll have an awesome backrow with Watson and Bradbury.

First time the SRU have given Edinburgh a proven coach and they got them Bennett at centre who is a top player (sadly he has a major long term injury).

With conference B sides Ulster and Kings having issues with their top players Edinburgh should be pushing for third in their section.
 
We'll see what happens then.

BTW, talking about Ireland - didn't they once have Shannon as a region? Fionn McLaughlin lived near me, many years ago (I'm 32 on Tuesday, so would have been 1990s-2000s) and I think that both he and his Dad 'Ginger' played for them/their predecessor respectively.
 

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