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Cheetahs and Kings booted from pro 14

RugbyUSA

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I thought Japan had no interest in continuing the Sunwolves as they've revamped their domestic league?
I've read a few different reasons on this board over the past year why they're gone and wish I could find out what really happened.
 

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How New Zealand broke SANZAAR



So is it the Kiwis fault that the South African teams are leaving? That's what I got from the article. From now on I'll be pulling for the Aussie teams in Trans-Tasman competition.
 
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So is it the Kiwis fault that the South African teams are leaving? That's what I got from the article. From now on I'll be pulling for the Aussie teams in Trans-Tasman competition.
NZ basically said "no playing with SA in 2021 but we'll consider Aus". The rationale being the uncertainty surrounding Covid19. From an SA perspective you can't expect us to not play top lvl rugby and hold out if we have otehr options. The one being greater emphasis on Currie Cup and the other being putting that second foot in ProRugby. TBF to Aus and NZ, SARU has always maintained they have an eye up North though I always felt that was a bargaining chip more so than an actual threat.
16 is a very good number of teams to implement a two conference system and maintain national fixtures.

Play the 7 teams in your conference twice, 14 games, and inter-conference "derby"* games once or twice, 2/4 fixtures. Maintaining the current playoff system it's a max of 21 games which is a manageable number. I think any bigger becomes a player welfare issue, so I wouldn't be surprised if SARU only wanted 4 teams too. An odd numbered tournament was never going to happen with a two conference system.

*Group the Italians & Scots together here.
I fully appreciate that SA only putting forward 4 teams makes sense ITO a competition format. Its sad that one of the big 5 had to get the boot but thats what it comes down to and I've been arguing that it being the Cheetahs losing out just makes the most sense despite it sucking for Cheetahs fans and the casual viewer. It not only makes the most sense from a SA rugby perspective but also from a Pro16 perspective as it lessens travel overall and brings in the most viewers and strongest SA sides.
 

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So is it the Kiwis fault that the South African teams are leaving? That's what I got from the article. From now on I'll be pulling for the Aussie teams in Trans-Tasman competition.
All evidence points to the kiwis finally pulling the trigger. Australia publicly wanted to ditch SA for years now. NZ advocated for us in a way. When NZ said ok we are doing this trans Tasman thing probably South Africa got the clarity it sought and just did what might have been done for them by NZ or Aus.

South Africa flirted with the north but never had the balls to do it mainly because of the Supersport broadcasting influence on the local game. Supersport made deals with SARU and that's where the money came from. UK television also favoured Supersport deals because we are in the same timezone and whenever NZ teams played in SA they received the most European viewership, this was attractive to broadcasters. With South Africa in Super rugby it facilitate a timezone where New Zealand teams play in a UK timezone, thereby opening it up to the European markets whenever they they play in SA. Without SA, NZ would not need to play in the South African/UK timezone and Supersport and NZ losses out on that viewership from Europe . It's bad news for television income for NZ.

NZ was always a friend of South Africa when it comes to world rugby voting as part of the SANZAAR allaiance. Australia was for a long time but in the last few years has been trying their best to convince NZ to join them in a trans Tasman comp. Only with Covid has years of threats on all sides become a reality. Poor Argentina is just caught up in the middle. South Africa will always try to accomodate Argentina in some form from a rugby perspective even if it is in the Currie cup.
 

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But this isn't really new news is it? Since the countries went into lockdown, and reports came through that NZ will have Super Rugby Aetoaroa, the reports suggested that NZ is the reason why SA would go North. We've been talking about this since May.

And there are so many reports coming through that it seems like the NZ Rugby administrators are making the mess left, right and centre. The Leaked report about the 2-week quarantine over Christmas is just another example of the mess going on behind closed doors.

Meanwhile, other countries have been making smart decisions. And I don't know if my fellow South Africans have seen this over the weekend while watching supersport, but there has been a new deal made with ESPN. Which will most probably mean that ESPN will in return show more sport broadcasted by Supersport. Which will definitely draw more viewers in North-America. One of my friends moved to Windsor in Canada just before the lockdown, and he was making remarks on our friend's whatsapp group that he can't wait to watch the SA teams upcoming season and that he doesn't need one us supersport password to watch the games.

To me, it seems like NZ's administrators are bullies, and that the other administrators got fed up by the bully tactics, and are now growing thicker skin and a spine, and actually standing up against them.
 

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I think we can all calm down a bit with the NZ bashing

COVID is 90% responsible for changes, NZ government 5% as they have effectively shut the boarders and most airlines have said they more than likely wont be flying internationally until mid next year and even if they do its almost certain you'd still have to quarantine for 2 weeks...would the SA players/teams want to effectively have 2 week byes when they came to this side of the world?

NZR have mad some f ups for sure but within the constraints given to them, they've tried to be proactive and create a competition that could actually work next year rather than just assuming everything will be back to normal next year

They have been quite clear the whole time this is just for 2021, if SA weren't in a position to do something different for one year then thats sad but hardly 100% NZR's fault, they have tried to strong arm Aussie for the trans tasman comp..and theyve stuffed that up, but that has little to do with SA leaving

I dont see NZR trying to find a silver lining in COVID to try something different for one year as much different to SA doing what has been rumoured for years and heading north...except we've only tried to make plans for one year rather than throwing everything away pertinently
 
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Fortunately on this side of the pond there isn't much if any bickering between the USA and Canada when it comes to professional sports leagues. And we share leagues with teams in hockey, baseball, basketball, soccer, lacrosse, rugby, etc. We have better weather and they have more potent beer.

american GIF
big cat ok GIF by Barstool Sports
 

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I think we can all calm down a bit with the NZ bashing

COVID is 90% responsible for changes, NZ government 5% as they have effectively shut the boarders and most airlines have said they more than likely wont be flying internationally until mid next year and even if they do its almost certain you'd still have to quarantine for 2 weeks...would the SA players/teams want to effectively have 2 week byes when they came to this side of the world?

NZR have mad some f ups for sure but within the constraints given to them, they've tried to be proactive and create a competition that could actually work next year rather than just assuming everything will be back to normal next year

They have been quite clear the whole time this is just for 2021, if SA weren't in a position to do something different for one year then thats sad but hardly 100% NZR's fault, they have tried to strong arm Aussie for the trans tasman comp..and theyve stuffed that up, but that has little to do with SA leaving

I dont see NZR trying to find a silver lining in COVID to try something different for one year as much different to SA doing what has been rumoured for years and heading north...except we've only tried to make plans for one year rather than throwing everything away pertinently

That's not the whole story though. Yes the pandemic was the main cause of concern and the reason why the teams did what the did for 2020. But there was a hard stance by the NZRU about what to do past 2021, and by extension the RC this end of year, and it appears that the disputes are still happening.

The fact that there are so many bad reports from different areas on the globe all pointing the finger at the NZRU, does paint a bleak picture. Most recently the Pacific Islands being snubbed for a team to be part of SR Aetoaroa 2021.

Plus the article about one of the All Black players kicking down the coach's door and refusing to be in quarantine over Christmas. FFS!! that is such a childish thing to do. you don't see international cricketers moaning about the Boxing day tests they play year in, and year out. Plus playing during the festive season, brings that player an income to support his family. And it's not like there was a lockdown this year, where the players were at home with their families for a much longer period than the festive season.

SA's move North, was purely because of what the NZRU did, and forced SARU to go into other negotiations. SARU only went in negotiations with the PRO DAC, after NZRU made their decisions. What was SARU to do, just sit back, take it on the chin, and only play Currie Cup? It's not SARU's fault that SA is wanted by other leagues, and that there is a want for World Cup Champions playing in a league.

Had the NZRU not did what they did, the Bulls, Sharks, Lions and Stormers would've remained in Super Rugby. Simple as that. The Cheetahs would've remained in PRO14, and the Kings would've been replaced by either the Pumas or the Griquas.
 

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That's not the whole story though. Yes the pandemic was the main cause of concern and the reason why the teams did what the did for 2020. But there was a hard stance by the NZRU about what to do past 2021, and by extension the RC this end of year, and it appears that the disputes are still happening.

The fact that there are so many bad reports from different areas on the globe all pointing the finger at the NZRU, does paint a bleak picture. Most recently the Pacific Islands being snubbed for a team to be part of SR Aetoaroa 2021.

Plus the article about one of the All Black players kicking down the coach's door and refusing to be in quarantine over Christmas. FFS!! that is such a childish thing to do. you don't see international cricketers moaning about the Boxing day tests they play year in, and year out. Plus playing during the festive season, brings that player an income to support his family. And it's not like there was a lockdown this year, where the players were at home with their families for a much longer period than the festive season.

SA's move North, was purely because of what the NZRU did, and forced SARU to go into other negotiations. SARU only went in negotiations with the PRO DAC, after NZRU made their decisions. What was SARU to do, just sit back, take it on the chin, and only play Currie Cup? It's not SARU's fault that SA is wanted by other leagues, and that there is a want for World Cup Champions playing in a league.

Had the NZRU not did what they did, the Bulls, Sharks, Lions and Stormers would've remained in Super Rugby. Simple as that. The Cheetahs would've remained in PRO14, and the Kings would've been replaced by either the Pumas or the Griquas.
Thank you for the perspective. This break up has put the kibosh on Super Rugby for me and that's sucks because it was my favorite of all the pro rugby leagues. It (was) awesome.
 
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Would still like 5 SA teams with the addition of 2 more Celtic teams.
3 groups of 5 playing an 18 game season would be great.
 

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That's not the whole story though. Yes the pandemic was the main cause of concern and the reason why the teams did what the did for 2020. But there was a hard stance by the NZRU about what to do past 2021, and by extension the RC this end of year, and it appears that the disputes are still happening.

The fact that there are so many bad reports from different areas on the globe all pointing the finger at the NZRU, does paint a bleak picture. Most recently the Pacific Islands being snubbed for a team to be part of SR Aetoaroa 2021.

Plus the article about one of the All Black players kicking down the coach's door and refusing to be in quarantine over Christmas. FFS!! that is such a childish thing to do. you don't see international cricketers moaning about the Boxing day tests they play year in, and year out. Plus playing during the festive season, brings that player an income to support his family. And it's not like there was a lockdown this year, where the players were at home with their families for a much longer period than the festive season.

SA's move North, was purely because of what the NZRU did, and forced SARU to go into other negotiations. SARU only went in negotiations with the PRO DAC, after NZRU made their decisions. What was SARU to do, just sit back, take it on the chin, and only play Currie Cup? It's not SARU's fault that SA is wanted by other leagues, and that there is a want for World Cup Champions playing in a league.

Had the NZRU not did what they did, the Bulls, Sharks, Lions and Stormers would've remained in Super Rugby. Simple as that. The Cheetahs would've remained in PRO14, and the Kings would've been replaced by either the Pumas or the Griquas.
that ludicrous, what exactly is the decision NZR made? the NZ and AUS governments made team coming from SA and Argentina unsustainable, the NZ and Aus governments have basically said, "you want to play rugby? teams need to come from the pacific as Aus the the PI's have largely got COVID under control"....and only for 2021!

you honestly believe NZR went completely against the current agreements with SA....all on their own....that there is nothing stopping super rugby going ahead next year except NZR and SA just said "oh well"....of course not, thats naive, the force majeure clauses would have been invoked to break the current agreement to enable different comps to be arranged so that players can still be paid, stop clutching your pearls

if NZR had gone completely rogue the SA and all our current broadcasting partners would have sued then into oblivion...no law suits? then there must be a general acceptance it is out of the everyones hands

all the bully behaviour you mention is AFTER the old structure was deemed not workable next year, yeah, NZR has stuff up a lot since then....but all of that was AFTER they had been told SA and ARG were out of the 2021 picture

maybe read a bit more about the COVID picture in Aus and NZ rather than just rugby articles, you'll learn theres a lot more going on than just the bloody rugby comp, i cant even go to another state in aus because we had 15 cases of covid yesterday...when they had 5...you think theyre letting who rugby squads fly in and out every other week when its still quite rampant in SA?

@TRF_heineken to be clear, what you have had NZR do next year?....just go ahead assuming everything would be fine and all travel restrictions would be lifted even against all recommendations?

I'm glad SA has found somewhere else to play, i dont want anyone to be out of a job, i just dont know if this is such an awesome outcome why NZR needs to get blamed for everything on the way out the door
 
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Would still like 5 SA teams with the addition of 2 more Celtic teams.
3 groups of 5 playing an 18 game season would be great.

What 2 other Celtic teams are there at that level? There must be more or you wouldn't have mentioned it. I don't know so if you'd enlighten me I'd appreciate it. Thank you.
 

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so this is reported today,

"Speaking to the National Press Club on Wednesday, Josh Frydenberg said international borders would likely remain “largely closed off until late next year”"

the only exception to this is a transtasman bubble but Air NZ and QANTAS have both said they dont expect to be flying between nz and aus in any kind of normal fasion until march next year

how would a normal super rugby comp work?
 

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that ludicrous, what exactly is the decision NZR made? the NZ and AUS governments made team coming from SA and Argentina unsustainable, the NZ and Aus governments have basically said, "you want to play rugby? teams need to come from the pacific as Aus the the PI's have largely got COVID under control"....and only for 2021!

you honestly believe NZR went completely against the current agreements with SA....all on their own....that there is nothing stopping super rugby going ahead next year except NZR and SA just said "oh well"....of course not, thats naive, the force majeure clauses would have been invoked to break the current agreement to enable different comps to be arranged so that players can still be paid, stop clutching your pearls

if NZR had gone completely rogue the SA and all our current broadcasting partners would have sued then into oblivion...no law suits? then there must be a general acceptance it is out of the everyones hands

all the bully behaviour you mention is AFTER the old structure was deemed not workable next year, yeah, NZR has stuff up a lot since then....but all of that was AFTER they had been told SA and ARG were out of the 2021 picture

maybe read a bit more about the COVID picture in Aus and NZ rather than just rugby articles, you'll learn theres a lot more going on than just the bloody rugby comp, i cant even go to another state in aus because we had 15 cases of covid yesterday...when they had 5...you think theyre letting who rugby squads fly in and out every other week when its still quite rampant in SA?

@TRF_heineken to be clear, what you have had NZR do next year?....just go ahead assuming everything would be fine and all travel restrictions would be lifted even against all recommendations?

I'm glad SA has found somewhere else to play, i dont want anyone to be out of a job, i just dont know if this is such an awesome outcome why NZR needs to get blamed for everything on the way out the door

it's not that they went rogue with regard to SANZAAR, it's that all the nations made their own decision about the local tournament held in their country, something SANZAAR couldn't control. But because of this, NZ went and made decisions on their own for both 2020 and 2021. And this was done, mainly after NZRU appointed a panel to look at the future of Super Rugby back in April. After the panel advised them that it's not feasible anymore, NZ started making plans, and took decisions for their own benefit.

Now, that panel's findings shouldn't have been taken at face value, as it was a one-sided point of view from a NZ perspective. And they didn't take the considerations of the new Super Rugby structure of a 14-team round robin strength vs. strength tournament, and that in the past this model was the best and most lucrative for all the nations.

That was how this all started. Then the reports started pouring in about NZ going it alone, and how the relationship with ARU and SARU has worsened. This article springs to mind:

Then came the reports that NZ wanted SA and Argentina out of Super Rugby. The reports wasn't that all parties have agreed to go it alone, or that SANZAAR has given the unions a directive of 2021. No, it was NZRU that WANTED SA and ARG out. And then they made their plans for 2021 public. And that was a very premature move. In South Africa we are nearly ready to open our international borders completely, and travelling over provincial lines has been allowed for over 3 months now. Our local tourism destinations are open, we can go to pubs and restaurants, and have parties at our home with more than 8 people.

Even with COVID-19 still present in our country, we are managing to go back to normal or at least as close to it as possible. And guess what, it's now only October 2020. And we haven't even made a decision on 2021 yet. Plus, we haven't changed any of the scheduling of the B&I Lions tour next year. Even though there were reports that it might move to a later date.

Yet, New Zealand who has been handling this COVID-19 pandemic much better than our muppets here in SA, have already made plans until end of 2021?? That doesn't make sense at all. What if there is a vaccine by December? What if the SH countries all become COVID-19 free by January?

Here's some more articles:

 

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All super sports articles nice and unbiased, maybe read something else

Yes, the nz and Aus governments as well as the two biggest airlines have given guidelines on what they expect to happen, all of that was out of NZR hands

The Aratipu study was comssioned this year after COVID had started to spread so it was always going to be influenced by it

the Aratipu study said a purely domestic comp isn’t sustainable so nzr was told by lots of sources it wasn’t likely they’d be able to have a normal Comp next year...and they’re own report said they needed more than nz teams...so they have tried and failed to build something that had a chance of actually going ahead

yes, it makes sense to me, ignoring a lot lot of office advice and just hoping all will be ok...that doesn’t sound very smart

have you actually read much about COVID vaccines? Politicians might claim there could be one by the end of the year...but every single medical professional I have seen or read has said one can’t be fully tested and rolled out before mid next year...and that’s assuming one of the ones currently in development works

so,
nz and Aus governments say a normal Comp work work
Airlines have put 90% of the planes in dry storage in the desert and aren’t planning on flying a normal schedule before March next year
and medical professionals have said it’s unlikely to have be a vaccine before mid next year

but NZR is the big bad for trying to plan ahead for something that had a chance of going ahead?

Ok, you’ve decided what happened regardless of other info, fair enough
 
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All super sports articles nice and unbiased, maybe read something else

Yes, the nz and Aus governments as well as the two biggest airlines have given guidelines on what they expect to happen, all of that was out of NZR hands

The Aratipu study was comssioned this year after COVID had started to spread so it was always going to be influenced by it

the Aratipu study said a purely domestic comp isn’t sustainable so nzr was told by lots of sources it wasn’t likely they’d be able to have a normal Comp next year...and they’re own report said they needed more than nz teams...so they have tried and failed to build something that had a chance of actually going ahead

yes, it makes sense to me, ignoring a lot lot of office advice and just hoping all will be ok...that doesn’t sound very smart

have you actually read much about COVID vaccines? Politicians might claim there could be one by the end of the year...but every single medical professional I have seen or read has said one can’t be fully tested and rolled out before mid next year...and that’s assuming one of the ones currently in development works

so,
nz and Aus governments say a normal Comp work work
Airlines have put 90% of the planes in dry storage in the desert and aren’t planning on flying a normal schedule before March next year
and medical professionals have said it’s unlikely to have be a vaccine before mid next year

but NZR is the big bad for trying to plan ahead for something that had a chance of going ahead?

Ok, you’ve decided what happened regardless of other info, fair enough
Some of the articles was originally written on other sites. such as the Sydney Morning Herald, and most of those articles are on several media outlets available. So it's not really a case of biasness, apart from the opinion pieces.

And I do understand your devout loyalty towards your home nation and what they have done. But from an outsider looking in, and all the reports floating around, and even your own submission that they made some bad calls, it all points to the NZRU administrators being the guys in the naughty chair.

When a SARU executive tells the media in a press conference that decisions were made "elsewhere" that influenced their decision to open discussions with the NH, it tells you that their hand was forced. It's not a conspiracy theory, or a thumbsucking story, that's what happened.

Nobody had any issues with SA, NZ and Aus having their own domestic competitions in 2020. And we will know by the end of this week whether or not SA will join NZ and Aus for the RC in Australia.

The issue is 2021 and further on. Even with the pandemic still alive and kicking, everyone now knows how to properly manage it, and sports tournaments all over the world, where international travel is taking place, is going on. Just not in front of a crowd.

So why was it necessary for NZ to make such a hasty decision so early on? And why was it necessary that this decision is causing so much animosity with their counterparts. Australian Rugby Administrators talking about the NZ administrators not respecting them.

While the SA administrators have been keeping quiet with their opinions on how the discussions went with NZ, and if any bad words were sent to one another.

And yet, nowhere, will you find articles where SA, Argentina, or even Australia are being bad mouthed by the NZ press. So do we automatically assume, these countries weren't in the wrong? are all the reports then true about the big nasty NZ guys?
 

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Some of the articles was originally written on other sites. such as the Sydney Morning Herald, and most of those articles are on several media outlets available. So it's not really a case of biasness, apart from the opinion pieces.

And I do understand your devout loyalty towards your home nation and what they have done. But from an outsider looking in, and all the reports floating around, and even your own submission that they made some bad calls, it all points to the NZRU administrators being the guys in the naughty chair.

When a SARU executive tells the media in a press conference that decisions were made "elsewhere" that influenced their decision to open discussions with the NH, it tells you that their hand was forced. It's not a conspiracy theory, or a thumbsucking story, that's what happened.

Nobody had any issues with SA, NZ and Aus having their own domestic competitions in 2020. And we will know by the end of this week whether or not SA will join NZ and Aus for the RC in Australia.

The issue is 2021 and further on. Even with the pandemic still alive and kicking, everyone now knows how to properly manage it, and sports tournaments all over the world, where international travel is taking place, is going on. Just not in front of a crowd.

So why was it necessary for NZ to make such a hasty decision so early on? And why was it necessary that this decision is causing so much animosity with their counterparts. Australian Rugby Administrators talking about the NZ administrators not respecting them.

While the SA administrators have been keeping quiet with their opinions on how the discussions went with NZ, and if any bad words were sent to one another.

And yet, nowhere, will you find articles where SA, Argentina, or even Australia are being bad mouthed by the NZ press. So do we automatically assume, these countries weren't in the wrong? are all the reports then true about the big nasty NZ guys?
So next year, if no plans were made....and COVID was still going and no one was allowed into nz or Aus and we had to have another domestic comp...that all reports have said
wouldn’t be sustainable and so NZR might end up in financial trouble...it wouldn’t be a big deal...yeah right no one would roll their eyes and point out all the advice was to make other plans

it’s not a hasty decision...it’s very late In The piece to try and create a new comp, it’s one of the reasons the pacific team isn’t likely next year, not enough time to get a proper competitive team sorted

and the talk of NZR disrespecting Aus is from discussions about the trans Tasman Comp...so once again nothing to do with SA but you seem determined to believe one bad move or sucking behaviour means every bad thing you’ve read must be true...
 

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So next year, if no plans were made....and COVID was still going and no one was allowed into nz or Aus and we had to have another domestic comp...that all reports have said
wouldn’t be sustainable and so NZR might end up in financial trouble...it wouldn’t be a big deal...yeah right no one would roll their eyes and point out all the advice was to make other plans

it’s not a hasty decision...it’s very late In The piece to try and create a new comp, it’s one of the reasons the pacific team isn’t likely next year, not enough time to get a proper competitive team sorted

and the talk of NZR disrespecting Aus is from discussions about the trans Tasman Comp...so once again nothing to do with SA but you seem determined to believe one bad move or sucking behaviour means every bad thing you’ve read must be true...
Very late? NZ made that statement before SA was even allowed to train. And 2 months later SA managed to get their own domestic competition up and running, and will start this weekend.

The disrepecting article is just one example of NZ not playing ball with their fellow SANZAAR members. Plus, regardless of whether SA or Argentina join the RC, they will get a share of the profits, as that's what SANZAAR as a collective decided.

The collaboration by SANZAAR and the 4 home unions is how it was supposed to be handled, as all 4 nations were dealt blows by the pandemic. Why were decisions made exclusively by NZ in favour of NZ?

We are still 3 months away from 2021, and a lot can still happen in regards to international travel and so on. Hell, just look at how it has already changed the past few months. The European Golf tour, The Roland Garros, Tour De France and the IAAF Diamond League are all going ahead/completed with sportsmen all around the world competing. South Africans were involved in all these major events, and they got on a plane and went to the venues/countries to compete.

I get that every country has their own protocols to follow with regards to international travel, and that it might be a stumbling block. But the fact that SA might still join the RC is just proof that the travelling part of the problem, isn't really a problem anymore, but it's more about being prepared and match fit to compete. So why couldn't the Super Rugby continue as it was prior to lockdown in 2021? The fixtures in the past were made around November the year before, so there is still time. Even if they move the tournament by a month to start, there still wouldn't be a problem.

Or they can even do what they did when the B&I Lions toured previously. Have the NZ and Aus teams start a month earlier and play the home derbies, then have SA start a month later, and have the teams tour as per usual, and then when the B&I Lions arrived, the SA teams kept on playing their home derbies, while the NZ teams played against the B&I Lions. and then after the international window in June, the last few matches of the round robin phase were played and went on to the playoffs.

There are were so many options on the table for 2021. But that was all thrown down the drain by one nation jumping the gun.

That to me is hasty. And Super Rugby wasn't just about NZ, even though you might think it was. The 3 other nations were grabbed by the short and curlies, unexpectedly.

My question is, what would've been the scenario, had NZ not loosen their lockdown rules earlier than SA? what if SA were able to play in June, while NZ were still in lockdown, and had no idea of when they would start? Do you honestly think we would have this same discussion?
 

Jabby

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But the fact that SA might still join the RC is just proof that the travelling part of the problem, isn't really a problem anymore, but it's more about being prepared and match fit to compete.

that fact you just compared a 6 week comp with four teams held in two states of aus that have practically no COVID, and even that is far from guaranteed, to an 18 round 15 team comp spread over four countries, at least one of which still has COVID running rampant, tells me i really am wasting my time

good luck to SA, im glad they have managed to find a meaningful comp to play in
 
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