• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Cheetahs and Kings booted from pro 14

rugbeian_usa

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
1,954
Reaction score
514
Country Flag

United States

Club or Nation

Glasgow

that fact you just compared a 6 week comp with four teams held in two states of aus that have practically no COVID, and even that is far from guaranteed, to an 18 round 15 team comp spread over four countries, at least one of which still has COVID running rampant, tells me i really am wasting my time

good luck to SA, im glad they have managed to find a meaningful comp to play in
You two guys have a good debate going. It's very interesting and more in depth than what I've read by the various rugby writers on the web.
 

Leinster Fan

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Nov 5, 2017
Messages
3,021
Reaction score
1,192
Country Flag

Ireland

Club or Nation

Leinster

No, they joined the Pro 14
The Pro14 just got a lot more relavant to be fair. This has come at the right time for the league, a team winning 3 in a row while using it as a development comp needed to end.
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,002,183
Reaction score
7,068
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

Why don't you like Pro 14? :rolleyes:
Just always been a bit of a mickey mouse comp,
The top sides have never taken it seriously, using it more as a warm up for Europe than a comp in it's own right. It changed a bit when they brought in the playoffs, but only in as much as there were now more than just the local derbies that the Irish sides took seriously.
 

TRF_heineken

RIP #J9
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
11,648
Reaction score
1,295
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

South Africa

Just always been a bit of a mickey mouse comp,
The top sides have never taken it seriously, using it more as a warm up for Europe than a comp in it's own right. It changed a bit when they brought in the playoffs, but only in as much as there were now more than just the local derbies that the Irish sides took seriously.

I think this move will change a lot of things.

With SA now sending their big guns, not only will it be tougher for opposition teams to come and win here, and tour 4 weeks in SA. But what it also does, is the move more nations towards the global calendar. With basically just NZ and Australia remaining on the old SH calendar. So in essence, SA will be on the same level as the NH teams for the EOYT as well as the inbound tours in June.
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,002,183
Reaction score
7,068
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

I'd be surprised, tbh
Teams will still prioritise Europe, and after the novelty of playing new sides wears off they won't send their big guns for tours to the SH - not worth the risk.
 

Twistie

Academy Player
Joined
Oct 8, 2020
Messages
23
Reaction score
10
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Hawke's Bay

Hello always enjoyed reading the forum over the years and just wanted to say how its a shame super rugby has gone down this path .Will miss watching super rugby games all sunday with the family . All the best to the SA teams and go the Sharks!Will miss the Jaguares too they where becoming 2nd fave team at our house after the canes.
 

TRF_heineken

RIP #J9
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
11,648
Reaction score
1,295
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

South Africa

I'd be surprised, tbh
Teams will still prioritise Europe, and after the novelty of playing new sides wears off they won't send their big guns for tours to the SH - not worth the risk.
I get that, but that might boomerang on them should they get knocked out of the European tournament. It would be better to focus on more than one trophy, than just the big one.

And on the flip side, the SA teams won't complain if a weaker team is sent to SA, as it would give them easier log points. It would however be a shame if the 4 SA teams all end up in the semi-finals of the PRO14, while all the top NH PRO14 teams concentrated on Europe and then ended up dropping down the log of the PRO14. I think neither the NH fans, nor the SA Fans would want to see just one country being represented in the PRO14 playoffs.
 

elavery

Academy Player
Joined
Sep 7, 2020
Messages
14
Reaction score
5
I don't really see the Pro14 getting much interest from South African fans as long as qualification for the Champions Cup is not an option. Leinster and Munster might bring in the crowds but not so sure about anyone else.
 

unrated

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
1,326
Reaction score
403
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

Sharks

we would soon need a farewell Super rugby thread because it has been so great. It has strongly influenced a valuable part of my childhood. The greatest rugby competition in the world, I will truly miss every game. Even those early morning NZ games. The style of play was in my mind how rugby should have been played , I hope we lose none of this when going to pro rugby. The joy I got when the Sharksbbeat the Crusaders in Christchurch with 13 men. Or the extreme heartache I had for weeks when the Chiefs smashed a Sharks team with 50 points in the final one year after playing every playoff fixture as the away team traveling from Durban to Brisbane back to Cape town and then all the way back to NZ for a final before getting smashed.
 

rugbeian_usa

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
1,954
Reaction score
514
Country Flag

United States

Club or Nation

Glasgow

Hello always enjoyed reading the forum over the years and just wanted to say how its a shame super rugby has gone down this path .Will miss watching super rugby games all sunday with the family . All the best to the SA teams and go the Sharks! Will miss the Jaguares too they where becoming 2nd fave team at our house after the canes.

For your first post, that was a real good one. And I agree with you.
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,002,183
Reaction score
7,068
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

as long as qualification for the Champions Cup is not an option
I can't ever see that happening as well,
Distance is far too much to do one game during a euro weekend
SA sides would need to be based in Europe for it
 

unrated

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
1,326
Reaction score
403
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

Sharks

I'm happy to play our home games in Barcelona for champions cup
 

The Alpha Bro

Fat Boi
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
13,303
Reaction score
3,713
Country Flag

Ireland

Club or Nation

Leinster

The amount of negative comments in here is surprising. Squad rotation is going to remain a part of this league for sure, it's an 18 game regular season with each team playing 6 European games as well, if you're not rotating internationals heavily you're putting them in danger. It shouldn't be criticised, it has to be done. (I think a lot of this is ignorance to how good some second string sides are, few enough prem teams would turn away the likes of Ryan Baird, Craig Casey and Michael Lowry)

What this will do is bring new contenders to the league which is desperately needed. The best years for the Pro14 as a product was Glasgow, Connacht and Scarlets bookending Leinster wins, as a result the 2018 win was a huge deal in its own right. (Although the sense Leinster or their fans don't value Pro14 wins is totally misguided) A dominant team makes any league look worse from the outside. So yeah, I wont be devastated if a SA team stop the six in a row for Leinster but I won't like it either.
 

saulan

Bench Player
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Messages
889
Reaction score
101
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

Stormers

Distance is far too much to do one game during a euro weekend

Would you mind explaining this one a bit more for me? Is it a team concern or a supporter concern? The flight is about 10-11 hours into the same timezone (or one hour difference). The main issue for Super Rugby was the flight time (which was 17/18 hours so not something you could do overnight in comfy seats and get a good nights rest) and then having to adjust to a completely different time zone before playing on the weekend.

Apart from the existing Covid impact on flights, I don't really see the issue of the flights for the team. Or maybe there is a different angle that I'm not taking into account here?
 

TRF_heineken

RIP #J9
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
11,648
Reaction score
1,295
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

South Africa

Would you mind explaining this one a bit more for me? Is it a team concern or a supporter concern? The flight is about 10-11 hours into the same timezone (or one hour difference). The main issue for Super Rugby was the flight time (which was 17/18 hours so not something you could do overnight in comfy seats and get a good nights rest) and then having to adjust to a completely different time zone before playing on the weekend.

Apart from the existing Covid impact on flights, I don't really see the issue of the flights for the team. Or maybe there is a different angle that I'm not taking into account here?

Yeah.

And most flights from SA to Europe is overnight, so the passengers in the plane have a good sleep. Especially those in business class...
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,002,183
Reaction score
7,068
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

The flight is about 10-11 hours
That's still over 5 times further than the next nearest, though

Losing an extra day in between euro rounds impacts rest/recovery/training etc.
I guess they could schedule it so if you had a South African side you do home and away in the same group of rounds so that both sides are adversely affected
 

TRF_heineken

RIP #J9
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
11,648
Reaction score
1,295
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

South Africa

That's still over 5 times further than the next nearest, though

Losing an extra day in between euro rounds impacts rest/recovery/training etc.
I guess they could schedule it so if you had a South African side you do home and away in the same group of rounds so that both sides are adversely affected

I don't think it will impact rest/recovery, as they'll be resting on the plane. But it does beat the long flights between SA and Australasia which is a whole day lost. If they fly overnight, it won't impact the players that much. If the fly around 18:00 and land at 06:00 the next morning, there's no real impact on training either. There's even time for them to head to the hotel, refresh, catch a nap before they go to the gym or the field.
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,002,183
Reaction score
7,068
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

But it does beat the long flights between SA and Australasia which is a whole day lost.
European players don't do that though

Rest on a plane can't be compared to real rest - otherwise teams would just fly in on game day and go straight to the captain's run.
Travel takes its toll no matter how many creature comforts you have
 

Primary

The Rugby Forum Assistant
Here are some related products that The Rugby Forum members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to The Rugby Forum’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to The Rugby Forum discussions about these products.

 
 
Top