Cockerill brands refereeing a 'joke'

[Leonormous Boozer]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/i-give-up-its-becoming-13730800

They were definitely hard done by in Dublin and apparently a couple other games according to the man himself. Hopefully it doesn't fall on deaf ears because there are some awful referees who seem to be highly regarded by the league... *cough* Lacey and Shitehouse *splutter*

 

[Amiga500]

While I agree that some of the refereeing is shite, Cockerill has bigger problems than the referees.

Blaming them for his team being too shite to get results is a cop-out.

Its not the referee that drops the ball, or doesn't clear the ruck, or misses the tackle.


Basically, if he cannot coach in the big league, maybe he should just f**k off back to the wee Premierhype.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Having a "neutral" ref employed by the FIR refereeing a Zebre match doesn't help. But Cockerill needs to be fined for remarks like this. He insults the integrity and competence of individuals, the integrity and quality of that league and generates bad publicity for the "business".

He said previously that the only way he would shut up about referees was if they shot him. Maybe they should start with a tranquilliser dart!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Just noticing my typo, if that could be fixed it'd be class!

I think he's said what needed to be said in absolutely the wrong way. The Lacey comments cone across as if Lacey wished Scarlets to win but as a whole the want for improvement in officiating in this league is required, some refs are so bad that it goes beyond poor implication of the rules to poor knowledge of the rules at times.

 

[Which Tyler]

Richard Cockerill? having a go at referees? whatever next? has anyone ever heard of such a thing happening before?
Richard Cockerill criticising referees happens almost precisely as often as teams coached by Richard Cockerill perform below the standard at which richard Cockerill wants them to.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

And so the steady slide towards football behaviour continues apace.

Having a public crack at people who are doing their best with no right of reply isn't much better than playground bullying.

Just a couple of thoughts Cockers;

Do you get every aspect of your job right? Your record suggests not.

Have you ever coached a team to do anything to make a ref's life easier? Thought not.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Personally i think Lacey is a shite ref and always dread having him in europe and not sure how in the world he is coaching at Pro 14 level.
Their seems to be a thing in rugby the Supporters can bad mouth the ref but the coaches can't say anything publicly.
But Why not? Not like the ref can get banned for getting big calls wrong is it. I can understand if it was a witch hunt against one ref in particular by a coach but he is criticising pretty much the whole league. It's a job no one wants but that's still no excuse to be **** at it.
Cockers hasn't blamed the refs for their loses, he has said that the team needs to beat the teams regardless of the ref.

Lose lose situation, team is losing can't make the comments because it will be deemed sour grapes BUT if team is winning you won't complain on the whole becuase your winning or if you do people just say well you won so STFU.

I might be biased (Which of course i am) but I side with cockers maybe he shouldn't be so blunt but he has been pretty quiet on the refs since his ban so he must be seriously ******.

(Part of me wonders if he is doing this in part to take pressure of the players or try and make a the whole league is against so show them mentality).


Having watched Pro 14 for the first time (seriously) they play great rugby but my god the officiating can be dire.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Their seems to be a thing in rugby the Supporters can bad mouth the ref but the coaches can't say anything publicly.
But Why not?

Because he's a highly paid professional who has a wider responsibility than just to his direct employer.

He may be 100% right in his views, but if he has concerns there will be proper avenues to relay them. Part of his job is dealing with the media and that needs a certain degree of circumspection; just because you're annoyed by something doesn't mean you gob off to the world and his brother.

Not like the ref can get banned for getting big calls wrong is it.

Don't know, but in wendyball officials who have made high profile blunders have been stood down completely or demoted to a lower league for periods of time. I'd guess there are probably similar provisions for top flight rugby. I'd assume there are also assessors at matches , monitoring refs and feeding back on performance.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Because he's a highly paid professional who has a wider responsibility than just to his direct employer.

He may be 100% right in his views, but if he has concerns there will be proper avenues to relay them. Part of his job is dealing with the media and that needs a certain degree of circumspection; just because you're annoyed by something doesn't mean you gob off to the world and his brother.

Why not? I mean what is his wider responsibility? He has taken them to the proper avenues he did so after the Scarlets game.

Don't know, but in wendyball officials who have made high profile blunders have been stood down completely or demoted to a lower league for periods of time. I'd guess there are probably similar provisions for top flight rugby. I'd assume there are also assessors at matches , monitoring refs and feeding back on performance.

Well considering lacey still does Champions cup matches despite being crap I doubt that is the case. They might have feedback but I've see the same refs make the same mistakes time and time again so it isn't getting through to them.

.

 

[Which Tyler]

@Old Hooker the Changalang brothers come to mind as having been demoted.
The talent pool of rugby ref's is not deep - not deep enough, so the best available ref at the highest levels. If the best isn't good enough for you, then tough, there is no-one better to come in and take the job of the ref you want fired.
There is indeed a formal and correct way to report your feelings in the ref, who is assessed after every single match.

As a rule of thumb the ref is paid about as much as an academy player, yet is expected to make fewer mistakes than any of the players, whilst having far more opportunities to make those mistakes. The ref also gets no right of reply.

As a rule of thumb, criticism of the ref is out of order when these factors are considered. I don't mind fans having a go I'm the heat of the moment, I do mind fans holding a grudge, and I do mind professionals who have no excuse for not knowing better, and who do have media training having a go at the ref, even in the heat of the moment.

 

[Which Tyler]

Out of interest, I tracked down an article from this year, talking about ref salaries - significantly higher than the last one I'd read (which I also tracked down, and was 13 years old!). Ignore their maths though, it's utterly horrible, but they seem to know the pre-match salaries.
http://tsmsportz.com/money/rugby-referees-salaries/

So a RWC ref gets £1500 per (RWC) match; TJs get (£750)
An international ref gets £1000 per (international) match; TJs get (£375)
Premiership/ SRugby refs get £350-375 per match; (TJs unknown, but the same ratio gives £130-180).

So a top, top ref could earn (10x£1000)+(30x£360)=£21,000 in match fees, realistically a little more if they head south for SuperRugby and Quad-Nations.
Meanwhile, a club-grade ref would earn (40x£360)=£14,400 p.a.

Same article suggests that top-level refs can earn a (presumably performance related) "extra" of 2.5X their match fee per match, but only seem to suggest that at RWC level, but if we assume the same across the board, then that salary raises up to £70,000; (£50,000 for club-grade - who will also spend plenty of time running the line instead, so significantly less) realistically I think that assumption holds for international rugby, but probably a lesser bonus at club level.

Bear in mind that even most of the elite refs hold down day-jobs as well, and all of the club-level ref.s do. Owens on the after-dinner speaking circuit, Barnes still works as a solicitor etc.

The article also demonstrates horrendous maths, by suggesting that top-level refs can earn £320,000; which would require the match-fee + full "extras" for refereeing 46 RWC matches per year.... which seems unrealistic somehow.
They also think that $250 per match gives an annual salary of $60,000; requiring 240 matches per year...

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Why not? I mean what is his wider responsibility?

To the game in general. That goes for everyone involved - players, coaches, owners, administrators......all have a responsibility to uphold the standards and ethos that help make rugby the great game that it is - and attractive to new fans, sponsors etc. Sadly, more and more are failing in that - players back chatting to refs, trying to get opponents carded etc.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

To the game in general. That goes for everyone involved - players, coaches, owners, administrators......all have a responsibility to uphold the standards and ethos that help make rugby the great game that it is - and attractive to new fans, sponsors etc. Sadly, more and more are failing in that - players back chatting to refs, trying to get opponents carded etc.

I'd take issue with this mentality more than Cockerill having a swipe at notoriously bad officiating. Players trying to get rules enforced correctly so they aren't put at a disadvantage should not be criticised, had Johnny Sexton not demanded that Ben Whitehouse go to the TMO for Munster's disallowed try on Saturday a completely invalid try would have been given that could have lost Leinster the game, similarly reminding a referee that the opposition are flirting with a yellow card due to consistent infringing shouldn't be frowned upon especially when telling s referee he is downright wrong isn't part of the sport at all. Similarly criticising consistently bad officiating, which has been that way for years, shouldn't be heavily criticised. The "old school" ethos of accepting a referee's first instinct as gospel would be far more damaging to the integrity of rugby than instances like this.

 

[die_mole]

Can't believe people want less transparency in our game. Good things rarely happen below closed doors. If we want to keep an inferior product, sure let's have all complaints be handled the "right"(barf) way.