England EPS 2016/17 season.

[TRF_Olyy]

I hate having no lock replacement.
Nothing worse than the opposition bringing in fresh legs into the engine room and you've got to shift someone who's already got 60-70 mins running on the flank into there.

 

[Raggs]

Itoje had been running around like a flanker, but pushing in the scrums too. We played three 5.5s, though Launchbury is pretty much pure lock now I feel. They all played well, and whilst it's not great being able to bring fresh power off the bench, we all know it's only temporary due to the injury situation.

 

[Peat]

Itoje had been running around like a flanker, but pushing in the scrums too. We played three 5.5s, though Launchbury is pretty much pure lock now I feel. They all played well, and whilst it's not great being able to bring fresh power off the bench, we all know it's only temporary due to the injury situation.

No lock should be first over so many loose play situations. He's an openside trapped in a lock's body, which is why I love him.

We were originally talking about the Argentina tour for no locks though.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Guardian reporting that Binny is back training with Sarries

 

[BPM]

If you're running two flankers replacements, are you doing 6-2 or no locks?

So far Jones has been about the evolution its true, but he's said the next two windows are for experimentation. Back row is a position where we badly need to experiment. I'm not saying we'll find people to replace Haskshaw then and there, but we might find people we don't mind playing when they are out, and we need that pretty desperately.

Yes - 6/2 split. My reasoning being that we need to prioritise developing our back row options.

From the squad I posted, my 23 would be:

1. Marler
2. Taylor
3. Sinckler
4. Lawes
5. Attwood
6. Robshaw
7. Haskell
8. Clifford
9. Robson
10. Ford
11. May
12. Slade
13. Te'o
14. Rokoduguni
15. Woodward

16. Cowan-Dickie
17. Genge
18. Hill
19. Ewels
20. Jones
21. Underhill
22. Spencer
23. Lozowski

My main debates would be over which way round to start Slade and Te'o and who to have in the 23 shirt. I figure Slade and Lozowski are both fairly versatile to cover 10, 12, 13 and 15.

 

[Raggs]

1. Genge
2. George
3. Sinckler
4. Kruis/Launch/Itoje (at least one won't be with the Lions).
5. Ewels
6. Haskell/Robshaw
7. Underhill/Jones/Clifford
8. Hughes (Billy will be with the Lions surely)

9. Robson
10. Ford
11. May
12. Teo
13. JJ (assuming Daly is with lions and JJ isn't).
14. Nowell (I don't see us supplying wingers to Lions).
15. Marshall/Woodward

16. Taylor/LCD
17. Marler
18. Hill/JCW/Brookes
19. Not sure
20. One of those that aren't selected in the starters
21. Spencer/Care
22. Slade
23. Watson/Loz

Arg are going to be strong, so I don't want this to be a fully developmental side, we only have so many caps until Japan, and I don't see the point in giving caps to people who don't have much chance of taking the shirt as their own, or denying caps to someone who I believe can get all the way to Japan, I also want some decent experience through the side.

Not sold on Watson at 15, and Woodward with his kicking does become very tempting, but Marshall looks very good too.

Loz looks like a very good rugby player, but not a very good 10 in my mind. Perhaps more time at 15 or 12 would be useful, and of course would offer another goal kicking option.

 

[BPM]

Why don't you see any England wingers going with the Lions?

I'd imagine Williams and Hogg are the only two back three options I think are nailed on.

I'd argue that Nowell has a very good shout and as Daly's been playing as a winger, Gatland may be looking at him as an 11 not a 13. Pre-injury, I would have thought Watson was our most likely option, now I think he's running out of time.

 

[Raggs]

Why don't you see any England wingers going with the Lions?

I'd imagine Williams and Hogg are the only two back three options I think are nailed on.

I'd argue that Nowell has a very good shout and as Daly's been playing as a winger, Gatland may be looking at him as an 11 not a 13. Pre-injury, I would have thought Watson was our most likely option, now I think he's running out of time.

I can see Daly going, but still see him as an out of place 13 (I said I assumed he'd be off with the Lions).

The Scottish wingers are very handy as well, even with his poor form, I don't see North not going, throw in Daly as well and I don't see a space for anyone else.

 

[BPM]

1. Genge
2. George
3. Sinckler
4. Kruis/Launch/Itoje (at least one won't be with the Lions).
5. Ewels
6. Haskell/Robshaw
7. Underhill/Jones/Clifford
8. Hughes (Billy will be with the Lions surely)

9. Robson
10. Ford
11. May
12. Teo
13. JJ (assuming Daly is with lions and JJ isn't).
14. Nowell (I don't see us supplying wingers to Lions).
15. Marshall/Woodward

16. Taylor/LCD
17. Marler
18. Hill/JCW/Brookes
19. Not sure
20. One of those that aren't selected in the starters
21. Spencer/Care
22. Slade
23. Watson/Loz

Arg are going to be strong, so I don't want this to be a fully developmental side, we only have so many caps until Japan, and I don't see the point in giving caps to people who don't have much chance of taking the shirt as their own, or denying caps to someone who I believe can get all the way to Japan, I also want some decent experience through the side.

Not sold on Watson at 15, and Woodward with his kicking does become very tempting, but Marshall looks very good too.

Loz looks like a very good rugby player, but not a very good 10 in my mind. Perhaps more time at 15 or 12 would be useful, and of course would offer another goal kicking option.

I agree with most of your comments above.

Our squads are pretty similar, I've just been a bit more optimistic on our players' Lions prospects.

On the one hand, I want our players to get Lions recognition and I think we have a lot of players with legitimate shouts to go, on the other hand, I'd always favour the development of the England team over and above the Lions.

Ultimately if Gatland shafts our players on selection in favour of out-of-form Welshman, the Lions loss is our gain.

I agree Argentina will be strong and I think we should take the best squad available. Certain areas need addressing and so warrant experimentation, others plainly don't.

I also agree that it's pointless investing caps in players that probably won't make a match day 23 before Japan.

Looking back at the squad I picked, there were a lot of uncapped players, but in the 23, I think there were only 6 uncapped. It's no coincidence that 2 were flankers, 2 were scrum halves and another was a fullback!

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Assuming Mako, Hartley, George, Cole, Itoje, Kruis/Launchbury, Billy, Youngs, Farrell, Joseph, and Daly are definitely out with the Lions as well as maybe Marler, Sinckler, Kruis/Launchbury, Robshaw, Haskell, Ford, Watson and Nowell my squad would be:

1. Marler/Mullan, Genge
2. Taylor, LCD, Youngs
3. Sinckler/Brookes, Hill
4. Launchbury/Beaumont, Ewels
5. Kruis/Attwood, Lawes
6. Robshaw/Wood, Williams
7. Haskell/Harrison, Underhill
8. Hughes, Clifford
9. Robson, Care, Spencer
10. Ford/Cipriani, Lozowski
11. May
12. Slade, Tompkins
13. Te'o, Marchant
14. Nowell/Yarde, Rokoduguni
15. Watson/Earle, Woodward, Haley

With my 23 being:
1. Marler/Genge
2. Taylor
3. Sinckler/Hill
4. Launchbury/Ewels
5. Kruis/Lawes
6. Robshaw/Williams
7. Haskell/Underhill
8. Hughes
9. Robson
10. Ford/Lozowski
11. May
12. Slade
13. Te'o
14. Nowell/Roko
15. Watson/Woodward

16. LCD
17. Genge/Mullan
18. Hill/Brookes
19. Ewels/Lawes (Whichever isn't starting)
20. Underhill/Clifford
21. Care
22. Lozowski/Cipriani
23. Your pick of Tompkins or Marchant

 

[Peat]

I'd like to see Burns back in before Cipriani.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'd like to see Burns back in before Cipriani.

I don't particularly rate either so whichever floats your boat I suppose.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I would be tempted to leave Harrison out altogether if Jones can get a run of fitness.

 

[Peat]

Burns is capable of a consistent 80% kicking rate, played one of the best games I've seen an England FH play in recent years down in NZ, and isn't reputed to be a gigantic ****.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I would be tempted to leave Harrison out altogether if Jones can get a run of fitness.

If your talking about Sam Jones then he's miles ahead of Harrison. Such a natural footballer who I've rated for a long time.

Although don't know which back row spot he belongs in.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

If your talking about Sam Jones then he's miles ahead of Harrison. Such a natural footballer who I've rated for a long time.

Although don't know which back row spot he belongs in.

Seems very much like a 6 to me.

 

[BPM]

If your talking about Sam Jones then he's miles ahead of Harrison. Such a natural footballer who I've rated for a long time.

Although don't know which back row spot he belongs in.

I agree with Toby - more of a 6. However, given what Eddie wants from his 7, he could probably fill the Haskell role.

 

[BPM]

Pre 6N, I would have had our likely Lions pegged as Cole, Farrell, Ford, George, Kruis, Hartley, Itoje, Joseph, Billy and Mako Vunipola, Watson and Youngs.

With 2 games to go, the picture has changed quite a bit I'd say. Hartley's poor form must be counting against him and Kruis and Watson's injuries were poorly timed for Lions selection. Joseph has probably gone from highly likely to slightly doubtful and Ford hasn't done enough to eclipse his competitors.

I'd say Daly and Launchbury have probably gone from possibles to probables. Marler hasn't done his prospects any harm and could go as a third choice loosehead and Sinckler's cameos could put him in contention.

What are the board's thoughts on our Lions contenders?

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Pre 6N, I would have had our likely Lions pegged as Cole, Farrell, Ford, George, Kruis, Hartley, Itoje, Joseph, Billy and Mako Vunipola, Watson and Youngs.

With 2 games to go, the picture has changed quite a bit I'd say. Hartley's poor form must be counting against him and Kruis and Watson's injuries were poorly timed for Lions selection. Joseph has probably gone from highly likely to slightly doubtful and Ford hasn't done enough to eclipse his competitors.

I'd say Daly and Launchbury have probably gone from possibles to probables. Marler hasn't done his prospects any harm and could go as a third choice loosehead and Sinckler's cameos could put him in contention.

What are the board's thoughts on our Lions contenders?

See my post on the Lions thread, but I think both Vunipolas, Launchbury, Farrell, Daly and Nowell are looking like very strong contenders if not dead certs. Youngs too, though I'd have Murray and Webb ahead of him for the 23.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

In my mind it's both Vunipolas, Hartley, George, Cole, Itoje, either Launch or Kruis, Youngs, Faz and JJ that are certain to tour with Marler, Sinckler, the other of Launch and Kruis, Robshaw, Daly, Nowell and Watson all likely, as well as possibly Haskell and Ford as possible contenders.