England future management?

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Smith/Rennie

With Catt learning below him could work.

 

[Mattybuck]

I'm pretty sure that the England job is one of the most attractive in world rugby. Lots of funding, lots of players but even more expectation.

I believe England Rugby has the resources to be one of the best in the world... But we are an awful long way from it at the moment.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The clubs are getting involved now:

Telegraph Sport understands that a number of clubs across the country are confident they have enough support to call for a special general meeting to call for a vote of no confidence in the board unless there is significant change to the management of the governing body.

“John Steele [the former RFU chief executive] was sacked just for bungling the appointment of a performance director but this is far worse. Hosting the World Cup was our once in a lifetime opportunity and we have blown it,†said a source.

 

[ncurd]

Glad they aren't mincing their words by the sound of it. Guess they were all hoping for extra gate revenue and renewed interest in the AP and I doubt that will happen by the increase they wanted now.

 

[Mattybuck]

Modern game needs a modern approach. I think the RFU is lagging behind.

 

[valley commando]

Wouldn't want Lancaster to be "above" someone like Jones, opining on purely rugby matters... just there as a director of sorts, ensuring we have guys coming through U16/18/20's successfully and that whoever is coaching doesn't try to select foreign based players.
The trouble is, I think you'd have just as much trouble getting Lancaster to put away his whistle and tracksuit as you would getting the likes of Jones/Smith etc. to be subservient to him (not that I'm suggesting that anyway).
I'm thinking of a role which is somewhat an amalgam of what Andrew and Lydon do.

Wouldn't be unhappy about Mallet... I just don't know that he would be my number 1.
I do like him a lot though.

Jamie Joseph?
Shaun Edwards?

Keep your hands off Shaun please.

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In perfect world it would be between Rennie and Smith.

Considering SCW is bookies favorite I'm scared.

Although you could get very good odds on Smith and Rennie.

Eddie Jones would be massive for you.

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Does anybody like the idea of Dean Ryan as next England coach ?

 

[nickdnz]

Does anybody like the idea of Dean Ryan as next England coach ?

Ohh yeah, that turns me on.

5 years at Gloucester, and all that silverware to show for it.

It's about as ambitious as I expect from the RFU.

 

[Geordie]

Would Paul Gustard not be the best option for Defence coach?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Stuart Lancaster as new head of the RFU!

Joking aside, I like Lancaster, he has reconnected England to the public and supporters in a way that I don't think even the 2003 side enjoyed. The guy is a PR mastermind but clearly not a coach. Can we do something like with the Queen and have him as the symbolic head of English rugby, a fine upstanding gentleman with a strong sense of morals and a thoroughly likeable chap but let everyone else do the actual coaching work?

 

[ncurd]

Stuart Lancaster as new head of the RFU!

Joking aside, I like Lancaster, he has reconnected England to the public and supporters in a way that I don't think even the 2003 side enjoyed. The guy is a PR mastermind but clearly not a coach. Can we do something like with the Queen and have him as the symbolic head of English rugby, a fine upstanding gentleman with a strong sense of morals and a thoroughly likeable chap but let everyone else do the actual coaching work?

If the stories about Farrell Sr. are true isn't that exactly what we have been doing?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

If the stories about Farrell Sr. are true isn't that exactly what we have been doing?

Fair point but I mean having Lancaster in a position that isn't head coach and having a different head coach. Farrell was a defence coach who took over to the detriment of other areas. Slightly different situation to a head coach who isn't himself in charge of 1 aspect of training too. Farrell was never meant to have the power he did.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I am fully expecting there to be a number of Lancaster lost the dressing room (if he ever had it) revelations over the coming months.

What in the guy's credentials would make an international player look at him and say "yes, he's the man to improve me and the team"; he had no playing record to speak of and had never coached senior teams. Sorry, but people at the top of their game expect those around them to be likewise. Jonno would have started from a position of respect due to his playing record, but even that went south pretty quickly.

There are many other factors, but the Burgess fiasco may come to define his time. Maybe star struck in the way Sven was with Beckham? Either way, picking him in the centre was always going to be polarising and largely without merit. I reckon the rumours going round are likely to have some foundation.

 

[msf]

I feel that those that talk about the ´values´ that Lancaster has brought have fallen for his and the RFU´s propaganda.

New Zealand´s values: last World Cup they had an alcoholic who gets into fights like Tuilagi did and this time they have a guy who beats women like Gazza did. Do the fans care? No, because they keep winning.

 

[ncurd]

Actually you could argue our misdemeanours are worse (even though the players didn't play).

Last time,
Players took part in local dwarf tossing event.
Mike Tindall got kissed on the forehead by a friend.
Tualangi jumped off a boat after they were knocked out.

Never bought the "England were out of control and didn't play with pride", twas all tabloid nonsense. Lancaster shut the tabloids up but peeved off people like Cueto apparently.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Actually you could argue our misdemeanours are worse (even though the players didn't play).

Last time,
Players took part in local dwarf tossing event.
Mike Tindall got kissed on the forehead by a friend.
Tualangi jumped off a boat after they were knocked out.

Never bought the "England were out of control and didn't play with pride", twas all tabloid nonsense. Lancaster shut the tabloids up but peeved off people like Cueto apparently.

Didn't the dwarf-tossing thing turn out to be a load of balls anyway? The players were in another part of the bar and had nothing to do with the dwarf-tossing or something

 

[ncurd]

Didn't the dwarf-tossing thing turn out to be a load of balls anyway? The players were in another part of the bar and had nothing to do with the dwarf-tossing or something

I think that's what the players first claimed but turns out they got so drunk they took part and forgot about it....or something along those lines.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I think that's what the players first claimed but turns out they got so drunk they took part and forgot about it....or something along those lines.

Oh OK.

Still ... no-one would be talking about it if we'd won. Tindall apparently met Zara Phillips after the 2003 final, imagine how different the headlines would have been if he'd met her in a bar after crashing out in the quarters

 

[Mattybuck]

When you think about it you are looking for a different set of skills to those demonstrated by a club manager.

1) You don't have control over day to day fitness/skills training.

2) You can't buy players

3) You get a limited window to get group playing as a team

4) You don't get many opportunities to try out players

Would be interesting to list what people think are the key skills for an international coach...

For me on of the biggest is selection. As I think has been shown.

Any others?

 

[Peat]

What an international head coach needs to do more than anything else imo is to accurately work out what needs to be done to win multiple games of rugby given the qualities of the player pool, then to clearly communicate it to the players, then to successfully drill them so they are able to do so, all without them thinking he's a gigantic bellend. I'm not quite sure what key skill that is or involves, but that's what's needed.

Having the right players to work with is obviously pretty important, but it's better to execute what I described properly with the wrong players than it is to confuse the right players.

 

[nickdnz]

I'm not convinced there is a huge difference between what a club coach and an international coach try and achieve - it's an argument which I have often felt is misleading. A club coach looks to buy players sure, but ultimately an international and club coach are both looking through a pool of players to select who will best fit the team - an international coach simply will be 100% successful in his recruitment. Maybe an international coach isn't quite as responsible for developing skills - but it would be weird to think players weren't being improved in their national setup.

What I think people get tied up on is that they believe an international coach always selects the best players available, where as a club coach will look at developing a team. If that is an international coaches approach, then it is probably doomed to fail. I don't think a national team's makeup should always be representative of a form XV - I think it should revolve around a game-plan and then be developed. Sure you can bring guys in who perform well given opportunities, and drop those guys out who aren't doing well within the game-plan. International teams still need to develop combinations, and an understanding of what as a group they are trying to achieve. I think this is what let England down more than any other team.

Historically speaking - coaches that win trophies with clubs, tend to do well for national teams.