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England future management?

Telegraph have a text stream of SLs press conference from 12.30.

Unlikely that he'll be drawn on what we actually want to know, but could be worth a glance while you stuff yer face.
 
An ex-League coach with a son in the squad? I can hear the rumours now...
 
For the best, I think, imagine what would happen to English rugby if Catt took over there.
 
Personal favorite quotes
Lancaster also blamed the absence of several players on the tour of New Zealand in 2014, when "half the squad was in the Premiership final".

He added: "Some of our talented players - 18, 19, 20 years old at the time - learning their spurs and still not even in Premiership. It's hard to bring these players in in one go."

What about Kvesic, Slade, Itojie, this year?


"It's hard to make selections when you have an inexperienced team and bringing more inexperience in," said Lancaster.

Who has he brought on as inexperienced this last year?

Ford?
 
Dylan Hartley, captain? Wood/Haskell back row?

Oh my giddy aunt.
 
Maverick1987 said:
I'm quite interested with a few of Butlers ideas .....
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...ler-blueprint-england-rebuild-rugby-world-cup

Especially the starting backs for the game vs Scotland in the 6N
Click to expand...

Pie in the sky!!!

Does he really think that Wayne S would uproot his family to become number two behind a coach who has a huge future but won nothing?

That back line may well best Scotland but Wales, France and possibly Ireland would be rubbing their hands at the thought of playing them!!

Butler is Welsh so maybe it is just his version of April fool column 6 months early or just having a bit of a laugh!!!
 
I like the backs, that's pretty much who I would pick.

I don't know as much about forward play, but Kvesic gets 7 for me and Haskell 6...

Might even give The Hask the captain job for the 6N however does limit chance to look at Ewers, Beaumont etc.

Wood has not been good enough for me but seems to be one of the golden boys.

No need to bring Hartley back Jamie George should get a go at 2.

I'd stick with Lawes and Launch in the 2nd row

Don't think Smith would come to be second choice, but might do to be the top man.

I'd be surprised if Baxter didn't rule himself out soon.

This is a good chance to try different players, young blood.

I'd accept that we wouldn't win the tournament as long as we are giving a new team a chance.
 
The thing with Haskell is - he's 30. He's never really cemented himself in the English setup - or looked like he'll always be first choice. I know it's not easy looking at who should be first choice over the next four year period - where it looks like there are very few certainties to make the grade, but selecting a guy as captain - who you more often than not look to build a team around over the next four years - means you get stuck in the same situation your currently in, which is a captain that is going to be stuck in the team despite not being the best player in his position.

Is there not one English player who looks like a certain start over the next four years? Attwood? (although lock is an area with a fair amount of quality competition).

I do have to laugh at Wayne Smith being given an assistant role. He could have that with the All Blacks on a permanent basis if he wanted - he wants to stay in NZ to be with his parents. Going from head coach of New Zealand for a while, to an assistant English coach is a bit of a laugh.
 
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I really, really can't imagine James Haskell as the guy making intelligent decisions in play and getting on the right side of refs - or his team mates, considering his well known narcissism. I struggle to imagine him being worth a slot on match days in general to be honest. His best is great but you might see it once a 6N if you're doing well.

Nick, the only guy I would bet any decent amount on being a certain start over the next four years is Launchbury. That Butler omitted him is a clue to just how crazy he is. Maaaaybe Joseph. Youngs and Ford have a decent head start on the competition.

Right now, we should only be appointing a captain window by window. Anything else doesn't make sense. Robshaw's position only made sense due to the lack of alternatives to be honest.
 
Personally I'd select the extended squad first and captain second. Once you know who is most likely to start every 6 nations select a captain from that a natural de-facto leader should emerge from any group of 31 players.

From there make it clear for the at-least the next 2 years the captain is an in-flux position like any other and can be dropped for poor form. However you are likely to pick a guy for a international window. Lions comes around your captain will hopefully be picked (if you've been sensible and someone doesn't select player from the nation he coaches in every 50/50 choice). Then in the run-up you should have farly good idea who your side and Captain should be minus-tremendous loss of form or injury. 4 years out is too long to pin your hopes on one guy unless they are exceptional. We haven't had that in our captain since Johnson.

- - - Updated - - -

Peat posted the same thing as me whilst I was typing....
 
TRF_nickdnz said:
The thing with Haskell is - he's 30. He's never really cemented himself in the English setup - or looked like he'll always be first choice. I know it's not easy looking at who should be first choice over the next four year period - where it looks like there are very few certainties to make the grade, but selecting a guy as captain - who you more often than not look to build a team around over the next four years - means you get stuck in the same situation your currently in, which is a captain that is going to be stuck in the team despite not being the best player in his position.

Is there not one English player who looks like a certain start over the next four years? Attwood? (although lock is an area with a fair amount of quality competition).

I do have to laugh at Wayne Smith being given an assistant role. He could have that with the All Blacks on a permanent basis if he wanted - he wants to stay in NZ to be with his parents. Going from head coach of New Zealand for a while, to an assistant English coach is a bit of a laugh.
Click to expand...

Launchbury.
If Tuilagi doesn't come back, then Joseph.
Watson

As for Wayne Smith, I agree it seems unlikely but one thing I would say is that taking a job with a team like England meets all the criteria for a proper challenge to get your teeth into, unlike New Zealand. To work with the all-blacks would clearly be an honour and a great experience, but they're already at the top of the game. Sure, they could get better but not by much; it's a super high pressure job and it's a hard act following previous succesfull coaches who already won all there is to win.

Whereas you could say for England, all's a mess, it shouldn't be too hard for him to improve us, the challenge will be 'how far', and with the resources available, the prize and achievement could be great..

Maverick1987 said:
I'm quite interested with a few of Butlers ideas .....
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...ler-blueprint-england-rebuild-rugby-world-cup

Especially the starting backs for the game vs Scotland in the 6N
Click to expand...

Don't be...He did a 6 point column on why England failed in his Observer Column. Number 1 was entitled "No Core Class" or sometihng similar, from memory. He used it to bleat on about how England don't have enough top class players. Not interesting, useful, or correct.
 
I think the point Nick is getting at is why would a man with Wayne Smith's rep look for an assistant role. I have to admit, I was under the impression he disliked being the main man himself but could be wrong.

Watson's been great this tournament but I wouldn't have picked him going in. At the age of 21, I'd expect major inconsistency going forwards. May and Nowell is probably a better balanced combo. In short, not nailed on in my book.

Also, Henry, who do you think we have who's a top class player?
 
I think we have to look at players who have potential to be world class (as in X factor, top drawer, good at the basics of their position and offer something else)

1 mako carrying ability
2 George set piece plus good work rate
3 Brooke's solid in scrum and good carrying
4 lauchbury I'd make him captain to be honest
5 Kitchener for his line out and ability around the park

6 itoje/ another - need to find a few choices here
7 kvesic for core open side skills and his pace
8 billy/ Morgan - we all know

The backs need a lot of work but whoever we pick all need pace and good hands so I'd look at

9 youngs/ care/ Simpson/ Robson
10 ford/ slade / cipriani
12 hill/ slade/ ant think of more
13 JJ/ slade
Back 3 - nowell/ may/ Watson/ lewington

In fact I'm not sure about my backs choices, we do need some options at 12 for goodness sake
 
TRF_Peat said:
I think the point Nick is getting at is why would a man with Wayne Smith's rep look for an assistant role. I have to admit, I was under the impression he disliked being the main man himself but could be wrong.
Click to expand...

I get that, definitely - I'm just saying on the other hand, maybe the greater challenge and frankly sheer amount of work needed with England will counterbalance that. Coaches tend to like a challenge. But as I also said, I agree it's unlikely.

TRF_Peat said:
Watson's been great this tournament but I wouldn't have picked him going in. At the age of 21, I'd expect major inconsistency going forwards. May and Nowell is probably a better balanced combo. In short, not nailed on in my book.

Also, Henry, who do you think we have who's a top class player?
Click to expand...

It's more that we get caught up on this highly specific argument over what constitues world class.
Butler wants to sink this back down to a fundamental argument about quality. I don't think it's really about that - the bickering with regards to the home nations is too often about that labels. When Wales do badly, everyone says they are underperforming - when we do badly we get Butler saying we don't have enough talent. Does anyone really think thats the issue here?
Regadless whether we call them world class, top class, or just class, we had a great crop of players in our squad. Ford, Watson, Vunipola, Joseph, Brown, Slade, Launchbury all could have done and should do great things. Neither Wales or Ireland have more or less talent than us - it's just about how it's used, and obviously in some positions, the fact that the best players might not have been picked.
The precise label we attach to these guys in terms of their quality didn't cause us to fail so badly in this cup.
 
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