England Post-WC discussion

[Geordie]

It would appear so.

Would you be happy with White or Jones? They must be the obvious two?

 

[Crapspray]

Peat, I feel obliged to respond but don't want to write longer and longer replies. So I'll try and bullet point it:

- Firstly, I suppose you're main thrust (as I understand it) is right: this World Cup, plus 8 to 12 months prior, was such a shambles it's unfair to Youngs to allow that to distort the overall view.

- Having said that, I do hope we can move past "getting by" and the general sticking-plaster attitude this team has to core skills. As you say though, we'll need some sane coaches first.

- I'm probably guilty of wanting a bigger tighthead lock anyway, so if we do use Youngs and throw front and middle at least we'll be able to maul off it.

- Please don't suggest we'll still have Hartley in 2018. I'll lose sleep over it. Though he was selected for the Lions...

 

[j'nuh]

It would appear so.

Would you be happy with White or Jones? They must be the obvious two?

White has the accolades but Jones would probably better fit the players we have IMO.

 

[Peat]

Peat, I feel obliged to respond but don't want to write longer and longer replies. So I'll try and bullet point it:

- Firstly, I suppose you're main thrust (as I understand it) is right: this World Cup, plus 8 to 12 months prior, was such a shambles it's unfair to Youngs to allow that to distort the overall view.

- Having said that, I do hope we can move past "getting by" and the general sticking-plaster attitude this team has to core skills. As you say though, we'll need some sane coaches first.

- I'm probably guilty of wanting a bigger tighthead lock anyway, so if we do use Youngs and throw front and middle at least we'll be able to maul off it.

- Please don't suggest we'll still have Hartley in 2018. I'll lose sleep over it. Though he was selected for the Lions...

I think we're basically on the same page.

The two points I'd demur on are these - a) I want better core skills but I fear that our player pool is at the point where we'll have players 'making do' here and there in some skills for a while b) I'm not sure we can fit in a bigger tighthead lock and Launchbury and I lean towards Launchbury if there's a choice. That's it though.

Oh, I suppose c. C) Reckon most here put the set-piece as the core skill they won't compromise on... but me, I'm ready to consider it.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

White has the accolades but Jones would probably better fit the players we have IMO.

If we are finally getting a coach in with a proven track record, that would make me feel SO much better. I'm fed up with the whole keeping it English thing. When our clubs play top level rugby and we produce good coaches then fine but right now it is the SH that is doing all that and the best way to fix it is to bring over some SH talent and try to change the culture. I sometimes feel we haven't fully left the amateur era in the NH with regards to the forwards. They are largely still expected to be blunt instruments whilst the SH prefers using them as skillful players as well, especially the ABs.

 

[Raggs]

Hope it's not White, we need someone who'll use the backs we've got.

 

[Tony Manx]

Armitage had his chance to return and didn't.

Clearly England isn't a priority for him.

He is 30, would rather we have Kvesic a actual shot.

With the increased cap I wouldn't be objective if England were to go the 50 caps and 7/8 seasons playing pro in England route.

Give Flood a call up just to fuk off Armitage and Bendy.

It would appear that England is not Burgess's priority either!!

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

It would appear that England is not Burgess's priority either!!

Not in rugby union anyhow. I can't believe we have driven him out of union...well by we I mean Lancaster and Farrell!

 

[Mattybuck]

Re my post on the specific Burgess thread, I very much doubt he ever intended to play Union for 5 years prior to 2019 RWC.

And that he knew he would be considered for the 2015 tournament.

I think Bath were played tbh

 

[Geordie]

Irrelevant of Burgess.....

If we cant find a decent 6 in a balanced pack from the below...then we are in serious trouble....

Chris Robshaw
Tom Wood
Dave Ewers
Calum Clark
Mark Wilson
Mario Itoje?? Think hes a lock personally
James Haskell
Tom Croft
Jack Clifford
etc etc

With others like Joel Conlon at Sarries coming through.

We could even move Billy V to 6 and that gives you Josh Beaumont at 8 (unless he moves to lock) and a different dimension in the back row. And a lineout option.

 

[j'nuh]

Not gonna lie, I am kind of happy that Burgess is gone. No longer there to tempt England coaches ahead of other players I'd prefer to see in the near future.

 

[McTallshort]

Not gonna lie, I am kind of happy that Burgess is gone. No longer there to tempt England coaches ahead of other players I'd prefer to see in the near future.

Agree. I said at the start of all this he had to be selected on merit for this to work. He wasn't and its ended in tears.

 

[Geordie]

Whats peoples thoughts on Josh Beaumont?

 

[Mattybuck]

Whats peoples thoughts on Josh Beaumont?

Get him involved, provided we get new coaching staff for England.

 

[Geordie]

Do you think hes good enough for that level at the moment?

Or would you focus on him maybe in the Saxons.

And would he be in as an 8?

 

[chippieolamus]

I'm not sure he's better than Billy or Ben. Let him play for the saxons, then maybe look again in the summer tests to see if he's progressed well enough.

 

[Mattybuck]

Bill and Ben both ahead of him but given both have had recent injuries I think he should certainly train with the squad.

Play for the Saxons unless we have injuries.

Offers something different to the other two as well.

 

[j'nuh]

It's tricky. When you have both Bill and Ben in the 23 every weekend, an injury to one of them means a third 8 is worth having around, but Ewers can definitely fill that gap.

I like Beaumont's versatility though. Definitely worth training with the main squad.

 

[Geordie]

And post 6n...

Do you bring in Nathan Hughes...or do you spit on him as a mercenary whos dissed Fiji in the WC to play for England after 3 years??

 

[Mattybuck]

I don't blame Hughes for his decision, plenty of Pacific Islanders have played for NZ over the years.

Would I pick him... Yes if he is good enough. I certainly think he'd put pressure of Bill and Ben forcing them to improve their game,

With where we are now, I wouldn't discount any player that may have a positive effect.