England Rebuild

[Teh Mite]

Borthwick?

We've been expecting you, Mr. Andrew.

 

[Teh Mite]

Someone else has said it - Palmer's probably too old. I'd still have him in the England side as an interim lock (since Shaw and Deacon are likely to be dropped for being too old at this point), but it wouldn't be building for the future if we stuck with Palmer as captain. The only case I could see for him being captain is as a temporary captain until Haskell gets back to England (who, if he was available, I'd love to be the captain).

Hartley is really the only player I can think of of the current squad who's both sure of his place and confident enough to take up the captain role, though I'm still worried about his off-field maturity - I'd love to see someone who has the focus of Warburton taking up the captaincy. In an ideal world, Youngs would be getting into the form he has previously been in and improving his decision-making confidence. I think that if he had the captaincy, he could really take control of the forwards and make the link play between forwards and back a lot more smooth than it has been. He sounds confident enough as a person (from interviews I've seen) to take up the role, hasn't been involved in any drama, it's just his decision-making on the pitch I'm concerned about. He has a lot of time to improve this though, and if it isn't too much of a step-up, captaincy might do to him what it did for Warburton. The flip-side is that at this moment, I wouldn't have him in the England starting XV to begin with - he has half a season to put himself in contention though.

The only other person I can think of is Robshaw. I just worry that making him captain will mean that there may be a point when we can't bring an in-form Croft back into the XV because we've made Robshaw the captain.

Youngs? Really? A gobby little scumshite halfback?

 

[JW.]

Youngs? Really? A gobby little scumshite halfback?

Gregan proved it can be done, I wouldn't have a halfback at captain either but worked for the Aussies back then. Not that Youngs is in the same league as Gregan is...Yet?... We can always hope eh?

 

[Teh Mite]

No, he won't be. He can't pass or marshall a pack for start off. Youngs won't even be in contention for the England shirt in 4 years.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Rumour has it that England rushed Youngs back and his knee is ruined and is out for the foreseeable...

Borthwick?

England team for the 6N:

1. Payne
2. Chuter
3. Bell
4. Borthwick (C)
5. Shaw
6. Worseley
7. Moody (convinced into coming back)
8. Easter
9. Perry
10. Wilkinson
11. Banahan
12. Hape
13. Tindall
14. Sackey
15. Balshaw

 

[Teh Mite]

You forgot Mears (c)the greatest hooker, ever!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He's on the bench as hooker/centre/winger cover (he likes to think he's all three )

 

[eot345]

What are we thinking about the front row, I want to see marler brought in his poor scrummaging is exadurated I've seen him push around corbisero before, Dan Cole is quality tight head but Stevens is also really good at TIGHTHEAD however he is not a viable player for 2015 Kieran Brooks is also one to look at, as for hooker Hartley is obviously number one at the moment I'd love to see another hooker who can scrummage well but can't think of one any ideas?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

1. Alex Corbisiero
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Dan Cole

18. Matt Stevens (still got a good few years in him yet - just make sure he never starts at 1 again)

In the squad: Vunipola and Brookes

Marler and Henry Thomas if they learn how to scrummage - no place in international rugby for a prop who can't scrum no matter how good the rest of their game is (Marler is getting better though, as will Thomas, who is only 19)


Hooker is a tough choice - Webber? Gray?

 

[gingergenius]

Olyy much as I agree about blooding young players in the coming 6N (and with your matchday front row selection), you really can't justify putting Mako Vunipola in the squad when he's only been benching for Sarries, even with Stevens away!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I didn't particularly mean for the 6N, I just meant in general in the coming years

I think that Wilson and Sheridan will both be around for the 6N still (Sheridan will be fit again in Feb, play 1 match for Sale, go to England, ruin his shoulder, as always happens, then probably retire) - If Johnson's still at the helm then Mears and/or Thompson will probably be there for hookers too

 

[j'nuh]

Any news on MJ? Isn't his deadline to make the IRB aware of whether he wants to stay as coach today?

 

[McTallshort]

1. Alex Corbisiero
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Dan Cole

18. Matt Stevens (still got a good few years in him yet - just make sure he never starts at 1 again)

In the squad: Vunipola and Brookes

Marler and Henry Thomas if they learn how to scrummage - no place in international rugby for a prop who can't scrum no matter how good the rest of their game is (Marler is getting better though, as will Thomas, who is only 19)


Hooker is a tough choice - Webber? Gray?

Before the World cup I would have agreed regarding Stevens, but he was terrible at the WC and not just in the scrums but at the breakdown he was just giving away penalty after penalty and seemed to have an agenda all of his own.

I would not be upset if I never see Stevens play for England again he had his chance after his drug ban but IMO he has not done what is required to stay in the EPS. Saxons at best.

 

[gingergenius]

Stevens was always a little suspect in the scrum, and we've found out he is even more suspect at loosehead. I'm not sure quite why he was hyped up so much over the summer...

anyway, he's a good prop in the loose and not a bad scrummager (but not amazing). A good player to keep around. Plus, he ought to improve his scrummaging at Sarries - us, Leicester and Saints really know how to turn a prop around.

 

[McTallshort]

He is OK for the bench because he can just about cover both sides of the scrum but I still question his discipline and the fact he was obviously ignoring instructions from the ref, his teammates and the England management.

We have other young props wanting a crack and I fell Stevens has blown his 2nd chance at International rugby.

 

[m0rris]

If Johnson's still at the helm then Mears and/or Thompson will probably be there for hookers too

...Hope not, Mearsy is good for Bath and can throw the ball well but he's not Schalk Brits. I like him at Bath but he is never put with the right props for England (cos he's far too short) and he doesn't do enough around the park when in white.
I'll wait and see abouut Matt Stevens, I suspect that the bus has passed this one and he will no longer be anything other than a Davey Wilson style last 20 minutes prop.

m0rris

 

[j-dawg]

Bring Vunipola and Marler into the squad. Play good ol' David Wilson a bit more. Let Sheridan play for Sale until the England summer tour. Sorted.




Unless you wanna go for a wild card. A lone wolf so unpredictable and destructive no tight head prop will cope.
Gentlemen....This is Tim Payne.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

With Moody's international retirement, who would you have as captain? PR has a poll and the options are:
Easter
Croft
Wood
Haskell
Tindall
Hartley
...

Isn't that depressing?

 

[JW.]

Bring Vunipola and Marler into the squad. Play good ol' David Wilson a bit more. Let Sheridan play for Sale until the England summer tour. Sorted.




Unless you wanna go for a wild card. A lone wolf so unpredictable and destructive no tight head prop will cope.
Gentlemen....This is Tim Payne.

Hehehe, why use his brilliance in the frontrow, the backs is where it matters!? The whole captain debate sorted its TIM'THEANIMAL'PAYNE!

But seriously Wood, Hartley are good options for Captain IMO weird that Mallinder has stated Wood could be a good captain while he has Hartley as club captain.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

With Moody's international retirement, who would you have as captain? PR has a poll and the options are:
Easter
Croft
Wood
Haskell
Tindall
Hartley
...

Isn't that depressing?

Tindall will, I think, be gone from the England set up now - I'd hope Easter would be too
Haskell has gone abroad so will be unavailable for England after the Super Rugby season

That leaves:
Croft - Hasn't shown good form for a while now, shouldn't feel secure in keeping his 6 shirt
Wood - Should, hopefully, be a starter in the backrow at either 6 or 7 - Could see it working
Hartley - Captain for Saints so has the experience there. Not really anyone better in the 2 shirt (which is depressing) so could well be him
Someone new - No idea who, and I doubt it would be as newcomers rarely make captain as they're earning their stripes in the squad. I could see Robshaw being captain as he's captained Quins, Saxons and "England XV" (in Australia), however he'll probably be ignored for Croft again, so that's out of the window





In other news people are touting David Seymour as Lewis Moody's replacement: