England Rebuild

[j'nuh]

Someone new - No idea who, and I doubt it would be as newcomers rarely make captain as they're earning their stripes in the squad. I could see Robshaw being captain as he's captained Quins, Saxons and "England XV" (in Australia), however he'll probably be ignored for Croft again, so that's out of the window

Robshaw could be a great captain, the only reason I don't want it to happen though, is that putting him at captain effectively means that for the forseeable future, he'll be guaranteed a place in the team, but what happens then if Croft or someone else really steps up halfway through a tournament?

I think it's silly to be talking about captains at this stage. I'd say we have 5 players who are guaranteed places in the England XV come six nations (Hartley, Cole, Tuilagi, Ashton, Foden), and other than that, most positions are to play for. All the more so if a new coach comes in.

 

[Peat]

Robshaw could be a great captain, the only reason I don't want it to happen though, is that putting him at captain effectively means that for the forseeable future, he'll be guaranteed a place in the team, but what happens then if Croft or someone else really steps up halfway through a tournament?

I think it's silly to be talking about captains at this stage. I'd say we have 5 players who are guaranteed places in the England XV come six nations (Hartley, Cole, Tuilagi, Ashton, Foden), and other than that, most positions are to play for. All the more so if a new coach comes in.

Robshaw can play all three back-row positions with fairly equal ability. Besides, if he's playing at 6, it does effectively block anyone else from making a grab for the jersey at the same time.

I would also strongly question a guranteed place for Hartley and Ashton - actually, for any of them, but particularly those two.

 

[gingergenius]

Robshaw can play all three back-row positions with fairly equal ability. Besides, if he's playing at 6, it does effectively block anyone else from making a grab for the jersey at the same time.

I hope one of the lessons we've learnt is that somebody who can play all three back row positions with equal ability is called a blindside, and should not wear anything other than 6.

Every good back row has a number 8 with soft hands, who can carry physically, and who can control the ball at the back of the scrum. England must pick players like this.

Every good back row has an openside who is in there turning the ball over all the time in defence, and in attack is clearing out rucks and supporting the ball-carrier. England must pick players like this.

Blindsides are different. They operate as ball carriers, lineout options, tacklers, enforcers, ruck clearers... you name it. England's must sort out 7 & 8 first and then pick their next best loose forward at 6. If that's Robshaw, then good. But he's not a 7 or an 8.

As for captaincy, let's not speculate. One of the worst things England have done in recent years is pick Captains who then automatically make the team. Moody, Tindall, Borthwick. England should pick the starting XV first, then pick a captain from that. And maybe when someone emerges as a leader and a regular, they can be appointed captain full time.

 

[McTallshort]

Here is a thought....We get in a new coaching team, they decide how they want the England team to play for the next 4 years leading up to the World cup. Then they go round all the registered players we have and pick the players that best suit that game plan.

What has been happening since 2003 is the coaching team has picked players totally on form or reputation then thought about a game plan that doesn't consider the way alot of those players play for their club. Players end up being shoehorned into unfamiliar game plans and in some cases unfamiliar positions. We have more registered players than anyone else, lets start taking advantage of it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Martyn Thomas is gone:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/8865420/RFU-chief-executive-Martyn-Thomas-removed-from-post.html

 

[McTallshort]

Oh what a shame

 

[gingergenius]

3 bits of good news this week.

Mallinder wants the job, Edwards has left Wasps and Thomas has been fired. So far so good.

Hopefully this mess will make Johnson resign. Then we can find a new RFU big man/ men. Then Mallinder can take charge, recruit Edwards as defence coach...

anyone have any ideas for forwards and attack coach?

 

[McTallshort]

Mike Catt as attack coach, not sure about forwards coach,

 

[j'nuh]

On the forwards coach... if no-one else, maybe Johnson? Maybe that's a role in which he already has the skills to do successfully, since he did captain England to a WC from the forwards, so he should be familar with working with them, and now that he has had coaching experience, it might not be such a massive learning curve to coach the forwards.

Also, what about Mallett? I doubt he'd want to, because it would probably be a step backwards for him now.

And I also hope Mallinder gets the head coach. That would be amazing.

 

[McTallshort]

I know he has ruled himself out of the head job but Cockerill could do well as the forwards coach. Are we sure about Edwards? mixed fortunes for Wasps/Lions and Wales

 

[TRF_Olyy]

People are definitely looking at Edwards through rose tinted glasses after Wales good performances in the WC

He's a decent enough coach though, and did well with the Lions too - Would be happy to see him involved with the England set up but wouldn't be killing myself trying to make him join

 

[McTallshort]

well did he? Wasnt he defense coach and in the 2nd test the boks scored 3 tries off first phase ball. Not really a ringing endorsement on defense.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Tries conceded in the 3 tests:
2009 - 4
2005 - 11
2001 - 7

I know there's many more factors in play, but it's not like the Lions were leaking tries all over he place
Don't forget that one of those in the second test was a ROG special, as well

 

[McTallshort]

only 4 in 2009? no way is that right surely?

 

[Draggs]

only 4 in 2009? no way is that right surely?

Five. Smit, Brussow, Pietersen, Habana, Fourie.
Two in the first, three in the second.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Woops, missed the 2nd try from the first test
Still stands though, it's not a bad try record

They conceded 15 tries on the whole tour, of 10 matches, whilst scoring 32

 

[McTallshort]

Yeah true but apart from the 3 tests you would have expected them to win the other games. OK 5 tries in 3 games but the deciding test was the 2nd and 3 tries all off first phase ball that is poor, in a test match to conceed 3 soft tries does not say much about the defence coach

 

[TRF_Olyy]

 

[Teh Mite]

This is all academic as nothing will change while Rob Andrew and Fran Cotton are still in place (well apart from the regional franchises that Cotton has been harping on about for years).

And if Baron forces his way back in, there's no hope of Andrew being ousted.

 

[Peat]

I would rather see Mallet as England head coach than Mallinder. I have a few ****ling doubts about both, but more about Mallinder.