England V Wales - 29th May

[Ragey Erasmus]

Why is cole still around? I don't see what he brings...

 

[ncurd]

Why is cole still around? I don't see what he brings...

Because he was immense last year before Denver?

Honestly think he's player living on past successes and probably needs to pick it up soonish before being dropped.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Why is cole still around? I don't see what he brings...

Did anyone else see Cole looking a bit miffed when Genge-Taylor-Hill marched back the Welsh scrum?

Granted it'd happened with Cole on, but that front rows average is 11... Bodes very well for the future imo.

And Tigs- I could have sworn Genge was chewing gum too.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Why is cole still around? I don't see what he brings...

How many of our tightheads have more than 50 caps? Brookes was supposed to be the long term heir, but by the sounds of it has regressed needs to get in condition, hope he has a good Saxons tour.

Hill and Sinkler? Far too raw at the moment.

 

[Peat]

Because he was immense last year before Denver?

Honestly think he's player living on past successes and probably needs to pick it up soonish before being dropped.

Cole won't be dropped if there's no one there to force him out and right now, I don't see anyone. Hill is still developing, Brookes has dropped off, Thomas... injured again I think? Sinckler still developing... JCW?

He's a solid international with a couple of very dull moments and a couple of very good moments. I'm all for a World Class player replacing him but we don't have on yet.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Did anyone else see Cole looking a bit miffed when Genge-Taylor-Hill marched back the Welsh scrum?

Granted it'd happened with Cole on, but that front rows average is 11... Bodes very well for the future imo.

And Tigs- I could have sworn Genge was chewing gum too.

TBF Cole looks like that normally on the whole.

a really nice bloke but tend to have one of those faces as default.

 

[Salad dodger]

Launchbury was better than rettalick and whitelock today!!!

Clifford also impressive - Haskell Wood morgan and Robshaw are struggling now as launchbury's shift today will see super maro at 6. Itoje clifford vunipola ewers Harrison kvesic covers all bases.

The genge Hartley sinckler front row gives me a definite sense of old school punch up possibilities?

 

[JJFlash]

Was that an England number 8 with some pace that I saw this afternoon?
No, surely not - goes against the England back row rule book!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

My quick summary
MoTM
+++++ Launchbury

Exellent
++++ Watson
++++ Clifford
++++ Englands Scrum

Was really good
++ Lawes
++ Kvesic
++ Daly

Better than I expected (Not to say they where excellent or anything just better than i thought they would be).
+ Genge (Though he might have been found out in scrum)
+ Yarde
+ Devoto (Although not much rugby TBF)
+ Taylor

Solid
Harrison (was good but not as good as he i thought he would be early doors)
Mullan
Hartley
Haskell
Brown
Cole
Hill

Inconstant
- JJ
- Burrell
- Care

Crap
--- Ford (You can't have you'r goal kicker leave that many points on the pitch, overall play alright kick maybe to much in second half)

what crap uses as spread
---- Youngs (Bar his one try)

 

[Salad dodger]

A youngs/ford halfback pairing would get proper bossed by Hooper and Pocock, an extra step each = turnover city!

 

[welshglory]

I would like to see a proper A league comp throughout Europe (Or at least the England, the Celtic nations and Ireland).

Yes I think that would be a good start.
A season long A team competition running underneath the pro 12 and premiership, possibly look at scrapping the LV cup but I could see them both fitting in.

 

[Peat]

Harrison did some good things but ESPN says he leaked 5 penalties, and that's unforgivable if true.

 

[Patchey]

Launchbury outstanding.

Clifford and Watson excellent.

Yarde and Kvesic very good.

Youngs, Ford and to some extent Burrell dire.

Everyone else ok?

Would love to have seen Kvesic start because Haskell did little and if you can be that impressive in a 20 min cameo, what can you do with 80?

Harrison seemed solid. I would like to rewatch the came and look out for the work he did.

Mullan average. Replacement front row were all pleasantly surprising. Tom Taylor's hair looked excellent.

Not sure what else there is to say.

Harrison did some good things but ESPN says he leaked 5 penalties, and that's unforgivable if true.

Seems a bit high for me. Over exuberance on debut for sure.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Yes I think that would be a good start.
A season long A team competition running underneath the pro 12 and premiership, possibly look at scrapping the LV cup but I could see them both fitting in.

I'd far rather see more players loaned to Championship clubs in every country- maybe with the apropos of more flexibility in returning to their Aviva club if needed for injury or if they improve beyond a point.

We've seen the benefits playing frequently can have- Ellis Genge for one, that U20s hooker at (Bedford?) for another. It's a far more gentle introduction to professional rugby than straight into the Aviva.

Players shouldn't have to step up to the plate like Itoje to be noticed.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

EDIT: Double posted.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I'd far rather see more players loaned to Championship clubs in every country- maybe with the apropos of more flexibility in returning to their Aviva club if needed for injury or if they improve beyond a point.

We've seen the benefits playing frequently can have- Ellis Genge for one, that U20s hooker at (Bedford?) for another. It's a far more gentle introduction to professional rugby than straight into the Aviva.

Players shouldn't have to step up to the plate like Itoje to be noticed.

Guess you haven't read much on Genge, as he wasn't getting the game time in the championship. And a A league would be similar in terms of more gentle than AP.

I don't think loaning is the right move going forward.

It isn't fair on the championship clubs, it isn't the best for the clubs IMO.

I understand like 18/19 year olds being loaned but at 20 they need to be in the club environment and a A league would allow that to happen.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Why is cole still around? I don't see what he brings...

But it's obvious to see what Sinckler brings, right?

So why did Quins keep picking the 96 year old Hair Bear ahead of him and why's he been right down the England pecking order?

The front row's all about doing the basics, providing solidity and doing the unglamorous stuff that provides the platform for others to do their stuff off. Similarly with Hartley. Pick the eye catching LCD over him? Not a chance.

Cole's solid and experienced. That counts, especially in the front row. The value he brings isn't measured by stats. When someone comes along who can do what Cole does and carry better etc then the shirt's his. But no-ones made a convincing case yet.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Guess you haven't read much on Genge, as he wasn't getting the game time in the championship. And a A league would be similar in terms of more gentle than AP.

I don't think loaning is the right move going forward.

It isn't fair on the championship clubs, it isn't the best for the clubs IMO.

I understand like 18/19 year olds being loaned but at 20 they need to be in the club environment and a A league would allow that to happen.

What haven't I heard about Genge then? Aye, he's left because of issues, but there's no way he'd have got 26 caps, most of them starts, if he'd been at a Premiership club.

Fair point about needing to be in a familiar club set up.
Maybe loaning isn't the correct tactic, but it's the only way I can think of to simultaneously improve the quality of Championship rugby and get younger upcoming players game time, without affecting the Premiership.

EDIT: Kudos to Lions rugby for the headline "Lock Stocks and One Smoking Burrell"! Even if it does imply Burrell was half decent, which is debatable.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

What you say is true but look at international teams across the world. They tend to play to their strengths. Eddie Jones is taking you guys back to that. Ireland in my opinion have always been a side that plays better tactically, which is what Schmidt has resorted back to. I look at the Argentinians and see what's possible if a positive mindset is instilled. I'm still of the opinion that Gatland ball doesn't suit the Welsh players..

The sad truth for Wales is Gatland's way has brought success from a very limited pool of players. He's looked at the pool and said playing Warrenball is the best way to success from the players available to him with their skill set and decision making. Getting a coach to suddenly play the "Wales" historical beautiful game is not imo going to make Wales world beaters.

And the Argentinians needed a few beatings in the Rugby Championship to get to the level they needed to to beat the Irish the way they did in that QF.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

What haven't I heard about Genge then? Aye, he's left because of issues, but there's no way he'd have got 26 caps, most of them starts, if he'd been at a Premiership club.

Fair point about needing to be in a familiar club set up.
Maybe loaning isn't the correct tactic, but it's the only way I can think of to simultaneously improve the quality of Championship rugby and get younger upcoming players game time, without affecting the Premiership.

EDIT: Kudos to Lions rugby for the headline "Lock Stocks and One Smoking Burrell"! Even if it does imply Burrell was half decent, which is debatable.

He's has started 4 championship games in his time at Bristol.

And started just 1 championship game this season.

He has been on the bench for 10 championship games in his time at Bristol, and 6 of them this season.

The rest was the B&I cup which is basically a championship A league with other Irish A teams