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English summer rugby

Lancaster has always wanted an openside, or at least so he's said, but he's never really had one - to me, Wood is as much a 6.5 as Robshaw* - until now. Maybe.

Kvesic has proved relatively little. He's done everything right so far, but he hasn't been tested nearly enough. Maybe the right answer is to just vault him straight past another guy and see what happens, but I don't see much room for complaint if Lancaster sticks with the three guys who have been there and performed for him. I'm trying to remember which games we've had Croft/Robshaw/Morgan or Wood/Robshaw/Morgan for, but generally, that's been successful. His chance will come; the trio does not stay fit.

As for Croft and an openside, I see no reason to think it wouldn't work. It's not like Cockerill has shied away from Croft and Salvi.
 
I don't really see it as him vaulting past anyone, we don't have an incumbent 7.
 
Imo Kvesic is on a VERY fast upwards trajectory and will be the preferred option at 7 within a year(unless Fraser keeps improving at the same rate); but at the risk of sounding a broken record, he's not quite there yet and even if he is the best openside, that doesn't automatically make him the best option at 7. I think there's a massive danger of the Wood-Robshaw partnership being scapegoated because of our six nations failure, whereas in my opinion recent England vs Argentina and Lions vs Australia matches have been a pretty clear indication of what England lacked most in that wales game:

1) A BEN MORGAN!
2) AN ALEX CORBISIERO!

With Morgan at 8, and Robshaw and Wood on the flanks, I think we've looked very good. The balance between Robshaw and Wood is pretty good in my opinion, with both being able to pull their weight at the breakdown. This is backed up by having am mobile and athletic pack who are busy at the breakdown.

The occasion when it clearly wasn't right was Johnson at 6 and Robshaw at 7.

i guess what I'm saying is that whilst I'm massively excited by the idea of having proper 7's, I don't think there's any real reason to panic and rush Kvesic into a starting bearth.
 
Back row debate just became a bit simpler - Crofty's out for the season.
 
Just saw that.

Really sad for him... but I'm not that bothered as an England fan in all honesty.
He should be our third choice 6 IMO, it's an obvious knock to our strength in depth there though.

I reckon one of: Kruis, Slater, Johnson or Clarke will move up from the Saxons and potentially anyone (from any position) could be brought into the Saxons.
 
Took 8 months out after a neck injury April 2012 - Dec 2013, and another 8 months later, he's out for the season?

It's not just the physical toll it takes, but the mental one. I would be very surprised if Croft hadn't considered retiring from the sport... I think it goes through most people's minds when they pick up two major injuries within a short space of one another. I hope not, since he's very useful for England.

I do think it's a big loss, but I also think it's in one of the areas of the squad we have ready replacements.

As for replacements, I'd be tempted to use this as a chance to bring in Webber. Don't think we should only have 2 hookers in the squad, and Launchbury covers 6 very well, and I don't see who else would challenge Robshaw/Wood/Kvesic out of the Saxons yet. Most didn't even get games this weekend.

4. Launchbury
5. Parling
6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan/Vunipola

19. Attwood
20. Kvesic
 
Isn't Haskell in the Saxons? I'd prefer him over Clark, Johnson, and Kruis. Certainly in the autumn internationals. Did a good job for England during the Six Nations -sin bin aside- and brings physicality to the position; something non of the other EPS or Saxons flankers really do (unless arm-breaking falls under physicality). Replace him with a loosehead to balance the Saxons as well.

A loss for England all the same. Never been a huge fan of Croft, but he's certainly a very capable player. Would have been nice to see him in an England side that (hopefully) should have more attacking threat this season. Hard to judge him when he's stuck in a stodgy side.
 
That's a big shame for Croft.
I imagine that Lancaster will 'promote' Clarke. Shame that Fearns is injured, as I'm still itching to see him given a proper shot for England.


On the backrow note: I really hope Morgan improved a LOT in the next two months - he was absolute muck vs Sale, and looked as unfit as I've seen any pro player.
Binny could well be getting games sooner than we anticipated! How did he go for Saracens on the weekend? I only half watched the game, and can't really remember much of it, to be honest.
 
I wasn't advocating either Clark or Johnson being called up, but they would be the most likely to be if Lancaster wants an openside.
Completely agree re: Fearns - he's exactly what I want from a 6.

I like Haskell - at his best he is a tremendous ball carrier.
The trouble is that he is injured too, and he hasn't played anywhere near his best since he's come back from his "gap-year".

Binny Bunipona went pretty well, a few big hits and his usual dominant carrying. He definitely looked leaner and a bit more alert than he did towards the end of last season.
I hope Morgan hasn't lost form, because he was playing phenomenally during the summer - regardless of the opposition.
 
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Yeah, I'm putting "Morgan's slump" being down to one poor game.

That said, from a Glos perspective, I can't help but think that his poor performance merits Kalamafoni moving to 8 and Qera taking over at 6. For me, it was always between Morgan and Kalamafoni at 8 with Qera and Kvesic on the flanks. And he'll have a big long tussle to regain the 8 shirt if Kalamafoni moves there.

Wouldn't be against Binny for England. But I wouldn't be against using Wood there either...
 
Tbh, I don't really care who gets the EPS nod. There's no one there in the same company as Wood, Croft and Robshaw with everyone in top form, and I don't think anyone is getting ahead of the youngsters so its irrelevant, unless someone hits form so amazing all expectations are reset. And we can't predict that.

Well, with the exception of Clarke. The only thing I want to see Clarke put into is this

wickerman_burns.jpg
 
Tbh, I don't really care who gets the EPS nod. There's no one there in the same company as Wood, Croft and Robshaw with everyone in top form, and I don't think anyone is getting ahead of the youngsters so its irrelevant, unless someone hits form so amazing all expectations are reset. And we can't predict that.
Maybe that could be the case, but when was the last time we saw Wood, Croft and Robshaw's top form?

Wood: 2010-11?
Croft: 2009?
Robshaw: 2010-11 too?

For me, they've all been somewhat underwhelming under Lancaster. I think Launchbury is already a viable option at 6, especially now that Attwood and Parling could make up a second row, and Kvesic and Fraser aren't far enough off that bracket of players either.

And Tipuric made himself a viable option vs. Warburton in a very short space of time.

But I don't think we should be hasty in finding a replacement. See how the next month pans out imo.
 
I thought Croft hit form in the first Six Nations, I thought Wood and Robshaw both had strong Autumn Internationals followed by a pair of good games until the lack of Ben Morgan dragged them down. I don't really see this as something to worry about and to be honest, am quite perplexed as to how you've been underwhelmed. Barring the Wales debacle, none of them have really put a foot wrong under Lancaster.

I like the idea of Launchbury at 6. Not definite it will work, or that Attwood's going to be the answer to our prayers, but it interests me. I have a sneaky feeling we haven't seen the last of Haskell. Kvesic? Fraser? Eh. I appear to be the only man in the world slightly underwhelmed by Will Fraser, who seems to be an almighty nuisance but not huge amounts of anything else, and not quite enough of a nuisance to justify that at international level. Kvesic might be there but I want to see some proof. Croft's injury means we should start to get it.
 
Anyone reckon Sam Jones should be involved in the Saxons squad?

I've been really impressed with him since the end of last season and the start of this season.

If he can improve his jackling i think he could be a really complete openside.
 
Anyone reckon Sam Jones should be involved in the Saxons squad?

I've been really impressed with him since the end of last season and the start of this season.

If he can improve his jackling i think he could be a really complete openside.


I have always rated Sam Jones highly and definately think he should be in the saxons.

As for those slating Clarke, yes he diod make a mistake and yes he is a very good premiership physical flanker. If you have watched him you will know he is very dominant in the tackle and at the breakdown.

BUT - he is not saxons level yet. He might be there one day but he is not at the moment. People seem to think he's not a physical player but is a monster when he plays.

On who they should bring in i agree with bringing in Webber. We don't need another flanker as shown onsaturday Billy V played 6! So there is no need to add to the squad right now. I want webber to put pressure on hartley, make him work harder!
 
Don't think people are necessarily underrating Clarke's playing, more saying that a piece of sh*t like him has no right to wear an England shirt.
 

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