Former players turn out for Tier 2 Nations

[TRF_Olyy]

PI teams should be way better.
seems that all the other teams benefit having islanders in their teams but nothing actually goes back to the islands. time to give back players.

Give back?
Give back maa nonu who is from new zealand and a product of the new zealand system?
Give back Victor Vito, who is from new zealand and a product of their systems?

PI nations are being hurt by not having access to players they have had no hand in developing and aren't even from there.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Others will know better than me, but the suggestion i read is Tonga and Fiji are developing lots of their own players but Samoa is increasingly reliant on foreign born imports. If broadly accurate then it may be that Samoa takes more than it gives from Tier1.

Plus I don't think you can have one rule for Pacific Islands and another for the rest of us.

 

[mania]

Give back?
Give back maa nonu who is from new zealand and a product of the new zealand system?
Give back Victor Vito, who is from new zealand and a product of their systems?

PI nations are being hurt by not having access to players they have had no hand in developing and aren't even from there.

Not saying nz didn't develop them. Saying they're still Samoan. How does it affect nz to let these players play for Samoa? What does nz lose? Nothing yet Samoa would gain so much.

 

[ajwffc]

is there not a definition of tier 2?

As I understand it all Tier 1 and 2 sides have played at the RWC with
Tier 1 nations play in the Six Nations or Rugby Championship (New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, Argentina, Scotland, England, Wales, France Ireland and Italy)
Tier 2 nations are all other sides that have played at the RWC
Tier 3 everyone else

 

[Goodey]

As I understand it all Tier 1 and 2 sides have played at the RWC with
Tier 1 nations play in the Six Nations or Rugby Championship (New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, Argentina, Scotland, England, Wales, France Ireland and Italy)
Tier 2 nations are all other sides that have played at the RWC
Tier 3 everyone else

Introducing an incentive to remain as a tier 2 team is absurd.

We should have teams that aim to become tier 1.

 

[Da Grappla]

For me nationalized players should not play for their new nations at all but i came from the only few nations that we dont use foreign players xD

Agreed

I couldn't dislike more foreignlegion-ish teams...Spain regularly fields a more french than spanish team. I'd go rather the loser way than winning with other people players

Within 20 years time you're going to have


- Half Southern Hemisphered Northern Hemisphere teams
- 80% pacific islander Australia and NZ
- South Quotafrica (only 5 white players allowed, more would be racist)


...Argentina soldiering on


¡Aguante Argentina!

 

[Five Meters Out]

Not saying nz didn't develop them. Saying they're still Samoan. How does it affect nz to let these players play for Samoa? What does nz lose? Nothing yet Samoa would gain so much.

Jeeze Mania, it's bad enough having Poms muddying the waters, without you chipping in to help.
Victor Vito born in Wellington NZ, Julian Savea born in Wellington NZ, Charles Piutau born in Auckland NZ. Born and raised in NZ. They're New Zealanders, pure and simple. Samoan heritage and no doubt proud of this, but still New Zealanders.

 

[mania]

. They're New Zealanders, pure and simple.

no its not pure and simple. theyre both, Samoan Kiwis (and i bet they define themselves in that order) so they have twice as much heritage than most people.
yes NZ did develop them but their intelligence strength speed determination coordination and warrior spirit comes from their genes and those are Samoan.
i dont understand why people are opposed to this? what does NZ (or which ever Tier1 team they played for) lose if nonu, vito, stevenLuatua, Saili brothers, tuipolotu, rossFilipo, etc play for Samoa, Tonga, Fiji etc. teams that produce a myriad of players around the world but their home countries get nada.
the main reason they ever played for tier1 teams is for the money, but the thing denying them from playing for who they want too, are people in power with this mentality.

Five Meters Out, i dont get what you lose in this and why youre opposed to players playing for their home countries (and yes it is their home countries. islander kiwi's can have more than one home. i have Upolu and Wellington). in most cases the reason they played for the tier1 nation in the first place was an obscure reason that was a stretch and solely to get a non tier1 national into a tier1 team eg residency (NZ players who were born here aside)

 

[mania]

basically i would like Samoa to get Samoan players back when tier1 teams have discarded them.
too much to ask?

 

[mania]

else what will happen; and i explain this to some of the gifted children i coach; they can score a huge french/japanese/UK contract , opt to play for samoa/ fiji/ tonga and then they'll be making big money (providing for their family) as well as still playing international rugby.

only downside is they would have to leave home, but somewhere like south of france wouldnt be too painful and the cultural exposure would be an invaluable lesson in life

 

[mania]

is this where it begins?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-opt-for-samoa-ahead-of-new-zealand-in-sevens

 

[Brigantine]

Samoan Kiwis (and i bet they define themselves in that order)

Not when they chose to play for the All Blacks they didn't. Which is exactly the point.
If they chose Manu from the start, no one would have a problem with it.

 

[mania]

Not when they chose to play for the All Blacks they didn't. Which is exactly the point.
If they chose Manu from the start, no one would have a problem with it.

I don't get what your problem is letting them play for Samoa when ABs don't want them anymore. What does nz lose out on?
They chose ABs for the money and served NZ loyally. ABs got their worth from these players. Why can't they continue contributing on the international stage when leaving the ABs?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

They chose ABs for the money

Or because they were born and raised in New Zealand, came through their academy and youth systems, and aspired to play for the national team?
Pretty disrespectful to suggest the only reason they played for the All Blacks was money.

 

[mania]

W

Or because they were born and raised in New Zealand, came through their academy and youth systems, and aspired to play for the national team?
Pretty disrespectful to suggest the only reason they played for the All Blacks was money.

Why disrespectful? It's fact of life. Look after your family

 

[Brigantine]

What does nz lose out on?

NZ would lose nothing. But it's not about NZ. You can't make a different rule just for one country.

It's about how international rugby and playing for your country actually *means* something. If half the stars jump ship when it suits them, playing for your country and supporting your national team will simply have less meaning. All over the world.

They're free to be NZ rugby players for the sake of the money if that's what they choose, but it's not like signing up for a club and after the contract expires things go back to how they were before. They weren't sacrificing themselves for more money, they were sacrificing Manu. Don't blame NZ or the rules for the fact they made a decision not to be Samoan rugby players first. They made that decision themselves.

 

[mania]

Yes. The country's that have money can have the Samoan (Fijian Tongan)players to themselves. That's a good way of staying on top

 

[mania]

And I agree with you. Not nz fault that the rules disadvantages Samoa. But that's the point I'm espousing. Every other nation benefits from islander players except the island s

 

[mania]

It's about how international rugby and playing for your country actually *means*

That's rich when u talk players such as fekitoa sivivatu bundeeAki tanieluTupou manuTuilaga etc. where was the meaningness when they signed up?

 

[mania]

And nor do I expect u to understand. Your not Samoan and your teams are obeying the rules and benefiting from these rules. Why would u care what happens to Samoa.
All I'm asking is that Samoan players (and that includes half caste s and those with dual nationality) be allowed to play for Samoa.

I know crazy request but just something that seems really unfair