France vs England

[dullonien]

That is true. But they could also have quite easily lost if Ashton hadn't of panicked. The problem was that France didn't really try to play any rugby, the kind of rugby that had got them to that position. Don't get me wrong, France looked very strong up front, they've easily got the strongest scrum in the world for example, but if they played like that against NZ, SA, Aus or even Ireland thay probably would have lost. It was disapointing not to see them play with confidence, and back their running game, which had proved so good in the first three games.

I suppose from a French perspective it must be nice to see the French team grinding out the result aswell. But yesterday it was England who lost that match, not France who won it. The difference between that and when England have ground out results in the past, is that when England did it, they were in full control, that was far from the case yesterday.

Saying that, France did win, and this will add to the confidence of the French players. Hopefully they won't freeze in the next really big match they play.

Out of curiosity, how do the French supporters feel about Basteraud? He started the 6 nations campagin wonderfully, but has really struggled when the opposition starts playing at pace. He dissapeared from the match against Wales in the second half, where Roberts and Hook both started beating him on the outside, and the same was true yesterday where Foden, Ashton etc. figured out how to get on the outside of him. He was innafective, and became a liability in defense on occasions. he's still got great potential, but I'm not sure wheather he's got much more to his game that 18stone!

 

[Rocket Singh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Mar 21 2010, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bullitt @ Mar 21 2010, 08:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wilson - Added no improvement.[/b]

I would'nt say that, our scrums improved greatly in the second half
[/b][/quote]

I'd back that, our scrum improved once Wilson came on for Cole.

EDIT: As for Basturead, I can see the Aussies and the Kiwis running hard at him this summer and in the Autumn if they play France then. Actually, did Basturead play against the All Blacks last Autumn? I wonder how the All Blacks approached him then because whatever they did they obliterated the French last November.

 

[munstermuffin]

Typical England starting to improve near World Cup and will probably sneak a semi-final or more :wall:

Foden and Ashton were brilliant,
Funny how 24m people in Country could have picked that move at start of 6Nations,
Yet the experted Coach's on hefty pay packets take plenty of hammerings to try it.

If Ashton and Foden (who play even better together) started all games England probably would have got results vs Ire and Eng.
As well as Flood unleashing backline.

 

[Bernard]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Mar 21 2010, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

That is true. But they could also have quite easily lost if Ashton hadn't of panicked. The problem was that France didn't really try to play any rugby, the kind of rugby that had got them to that position. Don't get me wrong, France looked very strong up front, they've easily got the strongest scrum in the world for example, but if they played like that against NZ, SA, Aus or even Ireland thay probably would have lost. It was disapointing not to see them play with confidence, and back their running game, which had proved so good in the first three games.

I suppose from a French perspective it must be nice to see the French team grinding out the result aswell. But yesterday it was England who lost that match, not France who won it. The difference between that and when England have ground out results in the past, is that when England did it, they were in full control, that was far from the case yesterday.

Saying that, France did win, and this will add to the confidence of the French players. Hopefully they won't freeze in the next really big match they play.

Out of curiosity, how do the French supporters feel about Basteraud? He started the 6 nations campagin wonderfully, but has really struggled when the opposition starts playing at pace. He dissapeared from the match against Wales in the second half, where Roberts and Hook both started beating him on the outside, and the same was true yesterday where Foden, Ashton etc. figured out how to get on the outside of him. He was innafective, and became a liability in defense on occasions. he's still got great potential, but I'm not sure wheather he's got much more to his game that 18stone![/b]

from a french perspective , it is nice to see the french team able to keep the score during second half time. there was no big victory shouting from my side at the end of the match... but much more a big "Ouf" of relief ! it was a tough one defenitly.

For Basteraud, We know that he is less fast in terms of speed and reaction compared to some shorter and less heavier guy...but as well , he has this impressive physic that makes him dangerous. So i do think we have to count on this guy but we have to be able to adapt ourself to the opponent and in cases where this opponent has decided to play a lot (like yesterday) we should be able to readjust our strategy by changing some players on the ground.

I think it is sad we have not seen David (center- toulouse) during this tournament (he has played during international november test for the french team) cause i think he has the power of a guy like bastaraud but as well he is less heavier and so faster in speed and reaction. I'm defenitly not a fan of Marty even if he has played good match during this tournament.

 

[Stillknox]

I just think Bastareaud was tired. He's making a great season, a good 6N debut but after 4 international games and an injury he seemed less effective. He was already shadowed against Toulouse two weeks ago. I think he's still better than David for now - good skills, but he can't pass and his defense is weak too sometimes.

That was an ugly game, not a satisfying response to the last year Twickenham slaughter. But the Grand Slam is here anyway and that's a pretty good foundation for the future. Now please bring back the french flair !

 

[Bernard]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stillknox @ Mar 21 2010, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I just think Bastareaud was tired. He's making a great season, a good 6N debut but after 4 international games and an injury he seemed less effective. He was already shadowed against Toulouse two weeks ago. I think he's still better than David for now - good skills, but he can't pass and his defense is weak too sometimes.

That was an ugly game, not a satisfying response to the last year Twickenham slaughter. But the Grand Slam is here anyway and that's a pretty good foundation for the future. Now please bring back the french flair ![/b]

It is true for Bastaraud. And he had to deal with quite a lot of pressure after the new-zealand incident.

In the meantime , about David, i remember we were having same critics against Bastaraud when he began to play for French team. not enough collective skills , "coffre a ballon" and finaly , he has improved a lot. So i hope David is able to improve in the same way

We have not seen Mermoz as well and i think he could bring something to this french team.

there is 14 matches to play i think before the world cup so still sometimes to adjust choices and call 2 or 3 ex-new players for them to take experience.

 

[mohamed_ali12]

Just got back from Paris, and a little bit of cock-waving to start off:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ali12 @ Mar 14 2010, 06:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Mar 14 2010, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ali12 @ Mar 14 2010, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 14 2010, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I was at the game yesterday and I enjoyed the view of the Edinburgh skyline as the Sun set. I enjoyed nothing else. Complete **** of a game.

It's already been said on this topic and several others so I don't really need to say much about the game, considering it's blatantly obvious where and why England are so poor - poor enough to not even look like scoring against a team that lost to Italy.

Wilkinson's floated miss-pass to a hooker/ touch judge, wasting a 4 on 2 overlap, just about sums up England's attacking capability. The only thing surprising about that play was the fact that a badly-thrown ball was going towards Dylan Hartley rather than out of his own hands.

Interesting move to bring on Foden - he certainly looked livelier than Armitage, even if he did get turned over once or twice.

Wishful thinking, hopeless optimism... and here is my team for the opening game of the 2012 6N, with Richard Cockerill in charge and (insert good coaches here) on the staff.

1. Mullan/ Corbisiero
2. Hartley/ Webber
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Gaskell/ Kennedy
6. Croft
7. Saull/ Rees if he ever gets fit again
8. Narraway/ Dowson
9. Youngs/ Care
10. Flood/ Alex Goode/ Cipriani with his head out of his arse.
11. Cato
12. Waldouck/ Turner-Hall/ Allen
13. Tait/ Waldouck
14. Ashton
15. Armitage/ Foden

These players are to be given time to play good rugby and no one who played with Martin Johnson is allowed to replace them if they're ****. The coach is to be given until after the 2015 world cup before its legally possible for him to quit. And Rob Andrew to be shot.[/b]

Would like to see Mallinder/Richards as head coach, with Edwards, Booth and Ashton for next year.

1. Sheridan/Golding
2. Hartley/Mears
3. Cole/Wilson
4. Kennedy/Attwood
5. Lawes
6. Croft/Haskell
7. Rees (if he gets back to his best)
8. ?? there really is no-one good enough. Dowson if anyone, I love Easter as a club player.

9. Youngs/Hodgson
10. Geraghty (best stand off on his day)/ Flood
11. Monye/Banahan/Simpson-Daniel
12. Barkley/Turner-Hall
13. Tait/Tindall
14. Ashton
15. Foden/Goode/Armitage

Now THAT is a team that could perform with a good coach.
[/b][/quote]

Team? That's 27 players! Hardly settled. Also lol at Tindall, by royal appointment.
[/quote]

I'm not quite sure why, but I'm feeling a bit of love for Tindall at the moment. I never have before, but he seems like the only half-decent crashball centre we have in the country right now.[/b]
[/b][/quote]

What did I say about Tindall eh?

On a serious note, although England were improved, they were still not good enough.

The forwards were pretty poor in my opinion, and for Johnson to say England executed chances is complete ********. This means nothing unless they follow it up in the summer. One performance a year is not enough to warrant Johnno staying unless something changes rapidly. Let's face the facts, 2 wins and a draw is just shite.

 

[bristol-iain]

Smug swine lol

Tindall did play well, as did all the backs I think. Foden was superb and with Cueto and Ashton on the wings England now have a world-class back 3.

France won because they were better up front, scrums, lineouts, loose and breakdown.

However my main gripe lies with Brian Moore. The biased pr1ck. Remember the quick throw in on Englands 22 that went forward and Moore went on a rant about how it wasn't forward then they show a replay proving it was. Get this moron off commentary fast BBC.

 

[The All Whites]

[/quote]

What did I say about Tindall eh?

On a serious note, although England were improved, they were still not good enough.

The forwards were pretty poor in my opinion, and for Johnson to say England executed chances is complete ********. This means nothing unless they follow it up in the summer. One performance a year is not enough to warrant Johnno staying unless something changes rapidly. Let's face the facts, 2 wins and a draw is just shite.
[/quote]

Agreed, the England pack is the main problem area- the scrum, lineout, workrate around the field, turnovers, ball carrying.... i could go on. With Johnson at the helm you'd expect a well organised industrious pack but not really happened as of yet. I'm actually pretty satisfied with the selection of backs available, when supplied with ball and linking together they are a match for anybody!

 

[Rocket Singh]

Seeing what Ireland and Scotland were doing at the breakdown and at the line out was light years ahead of what England were doing. Both teams have highly mobile packs who speed to every breakdown. Example, Scotland scrum inside Ireland's half, ball pops out and is spread wide by Scotland and goes forward before a ruck occurs. All of this within about 10 seconds and even before the Scottish ball carrier is hitting the ground, Euan Murray and another front rower is there in support already.

Where was that with England last night?

EDIT: As for Basturead, I'm sorry but if he isn't fit enough to last at least 70 minutes then he shouldn't be playing. Saying he's had a long season or that he's had a rough patch mentally is just excusing the fact that somewhere along the line he isn't doing enough fitness training.

If he fit enough to last 80 and stay sharp then he could be one of the most formidable centers in the world. Right now he's a handful but most sides know now that he'll start to fade on the half hour and be subbed at half time or on the 50th minute mark and I gaurantee you that every side worth their salt will be wanting to exploit that.

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rocket Singh @ Mar 22 2010, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

EDIT: As for Basturead, I'm sorry but if he isn't fit enough to last at least 70 minutes then he shouldn't be playing. Saying he's had a long season or that he's had a rough patch mentally is just excusing the fact that somewhere along the line he isn't doing enough fitness training.

If he fit enough to last 80 and stay sharp then he could be one of the most formidable centers in the world. Right now he's a handful but most sides know now that he'll start to fade on the half hour and be subbed at half time or on the 50th minute mark and I gaurantee you that every side worth their salt will be wanting to exploit that.[/b]

High hopes for Basta. I'm sure he will be great, but I don't find the French excuses for the last couple of matches convincing. Very lazy in defence against Italy, and only had one good moment against England when he turned an England attacker in the tackle. Interesting that Tindall was taken off soon after Basta - do I have that right?

 

[The All Whites]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Mar 21 2010, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rocket Singh @ Mar 22 2010, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

EDIT: As for Basturead, I'm sorry but if he isn't fit enough to last at least 70 minutes then he shouldn't be playing. Saying he's had a long season or that he's had a rough patch mentally is just excusing the fact that somewhere along the line he isn't doing enough fitness training.

If he fit enough to last 80 and stay sharp then he could be one of the most formidable centers in the world. Right now he's a handful but most sides know now that he'll start to fade on the half hour and be subbed at half time or on the 50th minute mark and I gaurantee you that every side worth their salt will be wanting to exploit that.[/b]

High hopes for Basta. I'm sure he will be great, but I don't find the French excuses for the last couple of matches convincing. Very lazy in defence against Italy, and only had one good moment against England when he turned an England attacker in the tackle. Interesting that Tindall was taken off soon after Basta - do I have that right?
[/b][/quote]

Yeah, seemed Johnson only wanted him to negate Bastareud. Still cannot believe he was taken off though, one of England's best players on the night , and those piercing runs he was making were a breath of fresh air.

 

[elgringoborracho]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rocket Singh @ Mar 22 2010, 12:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

EDIT: As for Basturead, I'm sorry but if he isn't fit enough to last at least 70 minutes then he shouldn't be playing. Saying he's had a long season or that he's had a rough patch mentally is just excusing the fact that somewhere along the line he isn't doing enough fitness training.

If he fit enough to last 80 and stay sharp then he could be one of the most formidable centers in the world. Right now he's a handful but most sides know now that he'll start to fade on the half hour and be subbed at half time or on the 50th minute mark and I gaurantee you that every side worth their salt will be wanting to exploit that.[/b]

I think you're right about Boustirood (yeah I also want to enter the crazy spelling comp ), he needs a bit more fitness. Not to forget that against England he was coming back from an injury though. He'll get better in time, he's still a very young player
The impact he's had on this tournament, at his age, is enough proof for me that we should be counting on him in the future. And not to defend him at all costs, but I think he has nothing to do with Foden's try. I think a perfectly executed set piece by England and a badly executed blitz defense by France made it possible. The one to blame on the french side, if you look at it, is Trinh-Duc, who should have slided instead of trying to kill Flutey. Basta tried to cover the wing, thus left without defender, and didn't make it in time to stop Foden. That's not what he's here for.

 

[mohamed_ali12]

Also, how good was Palmer? Shows how little England needs Borthwick - hope he and Shaw get the sack to be honest. Kennedy, Lawes and Attwood are the best English locks in the country.

 

[DonBilly]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elgringoborracho @ Mar 22 2010, 12:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rocket Singh @ Mar 22 2010, 12:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

EDIT: As for Basturead, I'm sorry but if he isn't fit enough to last at least 70 minutes then he shouldn't be playing. Saying he's had a long season or that he's had a rough patch mentally is just excusing the fact that somewhere along the line he isn't doing enough fitness training.

If he fit enough to last 80 and stay sharp then he could be one of the most formidable centers in the world. Right now he's a handful but most sides know now that he'll start to fade on the half hour and be subbed at half time or on the 50th minute mark and I gaurantee you that every side worth their salt will be wanting to exploit that.[/b]

I think you're right about Boustirood (yeah I also want to enter the crazy spelling comp ), he needs a bit more fitness. Not to forget that against England he was coming back from an injury though. He'll get better in time, he's still a very young player
The impact he's had on this tournament, at his age, is enough proof for me that we should be counting on him in the future. And not to defend him at all costs, but I think he has nothing to do with Foden's try. I think a perfectly executed set piece by England and a badly executed blitz defense by France made it possible. The one to blame on the french side, if you look at it, is Trinh-Duc, who should have slided instead of trying to kill Flutey. Basta tried to cover the wing, thus left without defender, and didn't make it in time to stop Foden. That's not what he's here for.
[/b][/quote]

Folden's try exploited a weakness in the French defense movement, they were one man less than the attacking side on this wing, moreover Trinh Duc intended to close the wing but was not fast enough and actually created a hole in the defense line.

 

[Nickdnz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bristol-iain @ Mar 22 2010, 11:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Smug swine lol

Tindall did play well, as did all the backs I think. Foden was superb and with Cueto and Ashton on the wings England now have a world-class back 3.

France won because they were better up front, scrums, lineouts, loose and breakdown.

However my main gripe lies with Brian Moore. The biased pr1ck. Remember the quick throw in on Englands 22 that went forward and Moore went on a rant about how it wasn't forward then they show a replay proving it was. Get this moron off commentary fast BBC.[/b]

Whoa- Slow down on the world class. They had one decent performance. Sivivatu, Mils and Jane or Habana, Steyn and Pieterson are world class back 3...England have got the start of something maybe good.

 

[Rocket Singh]

Whoa whoa Nick...did you just mention Francois Steyn and Pietersen in the same breath as Mils and Sivivatu?

I know you guys are very polite and don't want to offend and all that but...mate thats taking the p*ss! :lol:

 

[Nickdnz]

I was being kind.

 

[The All Whites]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Mar 22 2010, 08:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bristol-iain @ Mar 22 2010, 11:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Smug swine lol

Tindall did play well, as did all the backs I think. Foden was superb and with Cueto and Ashton on the wings England now have a world-class back 3.

France won because they were better up front, scrums, lineouts, loose and breakdown.

However my main gripe lies with Brian Moore. The biased pr1ck. Remember the quick throw in on Englands 22 that went forward and Moore went on a rant about how it wasn't forward then they show a replay proving it was. Get this moron off commentary fast BBC.[/b]

Whoa- Slow down on the world class. They had one decent performance. Sivivatu, Mils and Jane or Habana, Steyn and Pieterson are world class back 3...England have got the start of something maybe good.
[/b][/quote]

Pieterson? Never been world class!

 

[Bullitt]

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