[November Tests 2017 EOYT] France vs. South Africa (18/11/2017)

[TRF_heineken]

Venue: Stade de France, Saint Denis
Time: 21:45 CAT (SA, GMT+2)
​

Teams

France: 15 Nans Ducuing; 14 Teddy Thomas, 13 Geoffrey Doumayrou, 12 Mathieu Bastareaud, 11 Yoann Huget; 10 Anthony Belleau, 9 Antoine Dupont; 8 Louis Picamoles, 7 Kevin Gourdon, 6 Judicael Cancoriet; 5 Paul Gabrillagues, 4 Sebastien Vahaamahina; 3 Rabah Slimani, 2 Guilhem Guirado (captain), 1Jefferson Poirot

Substitutes: 16 Clement Maynadier, 17 Sebastien Taofifenua, 18 Daniel Kotze, 19 Paul Jedrasiak, 20 Anthony Jelonch, 21 Baptiste Serin, 22Francois Trinh-Duc, 23 Damian Penaud

South Africa: 15 Andries Coetzee, 14 Dillyn Leyds, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Francois Venter, 11 Courtnall Skosan, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Ross Cronje, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth (captain), 3 Wilco Louw 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Tendai Mtawarira

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi , 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Trevor Nyakane , 19 Franco Moster, 20 Dan du Preez, 21 Rudy Paige, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Damian de Allende

 

[sharkfan]

The Bok coach could be sacked at the end of the year if things don't improve against France, Italy and Wales. We as Bok fans have suffered enough, it's time for Coetzee to seriously shape up or ship out! http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/coetzee-to-be-sacked-in-december-report-20171113

 

[SomeOke]

If it takes more losses for him to get fired then that's what I hope happens.
Stop giving us penicillin, just chop the damn leg off already. It's clearly too rotten to salvage, and now it just hurts like hell.

 

[TRF_heineken]

That article makes me think it's already a done deal. Seems like it's just a matter of riding the wave to December...

 

[TRF_heineken]

This just in:

Coenie Oosthuizen tore his ACL and MCL and will face a lengthy spell on the sidelines.
Pieter-Steph Du Toit rules out for test due to Concussion.
Duane Vermeulen called up to Bok Squad.

 

[JohnKA]

if DDA starts another game i am not even going to take the time and watch ! Is AC blind or just stupid !?!

 

[AM_Bokke]

If AC has lost the dressing room it should be obvious in this game. I personally don't think that is the case in that I think that the players wanted very badly to play well in Ireland.

It's too bad that the players were so nervous in the 1st half on Saturday night. It puts even more pressure on them now. Maybe it's the coach but the Boks are clearly tight and not having much fun.

I think that the Boks are "sinking" to the France, Scotland, Wales level in the lower half of Tier 1 sides and they will probably be there for the medium term through the 2019 RWC.

I think that this game should be very competitive. With injuries and selections being wild cards for the Boks I don't exactly know how it will pan out but I think that a 3rd draw for the Boks this year seems like a reasonable wager to me right now.

 

[Amiga500]

Coenie Oosthuizen tore his ACL and MCL and will face a lengthy spell on the sidelines.

Oooh f**k.

Wish him well in recovery.

 

[AM_Bokke]

if DDA starts another game i am not even going to take the time and watch ! Is AC blind or just stupid !?!

Isn't the Ireland game the only one DDA has started this year? I don't want him to start either but it was not unreasonable for AC to give him the opportunity. He didn't take it.

It is true that AC does not know what his strongest team is. But I think that this problem predates him and is also an issue with SARU's contracting system. DDA is a fully contracted Bok so it is hard to not have him be a core part of the squad.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Isn't the Ireland game the only one DDA has started this year? I don't want him to start either but it was not unreasonable for AC to give him the opportunity. He didn't take it.

It is true that AC does not know what his strongest team is. But I think that this problem predates him and is also an issue with SARU's contracting system. DDA is a fully contracted Bok so it is hard to not have him be a core part of the squad.

It was unreasonable to select him in the first place.

And no, it's not true that AC doesn't know what his strongest team is. It's that AC doesn't know anything rugby related at all.

 

[mosfeldt]

Two out of form teams slugging it out. It will probably be pretty entertaining and I honestly have no idea who might win. I think the Boks are the better team overall in this match up but their away form is so bad that it's just too hard to call.

 

[AM_Bokke]

As of this moment, it is not clear to me that there is much leeway with selections. DDA is one of what 7 or 8 contracted Boks? If fit how is he not going to be involved? The decision appears to have already been made that he is a person that will be a part of preparing for the RWC.

I totally want Am and Venter to start. I have a lot of confidence that Venter will be a cool head and give some calmness and decision making to the team but Am might need some time to find his feet.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I reckon Boks could hammer France for the 4th consecutive time, they'll bounce back and look good in an emotionally charged performance again and France are equally incompetent. Italy and Wales will be bigger challenges for the Boks.

 

[TRF_heineken]

As of this moment, it is not clear to me that there is much leeway with selections. DDA is one of what 7 or 8 contracted Boks? If fit how is he not going to be involved? The decision appears to have already been made that he is a person that will be a part of preparing for the RWC.

I totally want Am and Venter to start. I have a lot of confidence that Venter will be a cool head and give some calmness and decision making to the team but Am might need some time to find his feet.

You are asking the wrong question. You should ask why was DDA the only inside centre selected in the squad while AC picked Am, Venter and Kriel as outside centres.

So what if DDA is a Springbok contracted player? He's out of form, and AC should have done right by him and allow him to play himself back in form with WP before being selected for the bokke.

 

[Superignazzio]

Come on guys, wanna lose again this year?

By the way, there is almost 10 ppl injuried or recovering from a bad one

 

[AM_Bokke]

You are asking the wrong question. You should ask why was DDA the only inside centre selected in the squad while AC picked Am, Venter and Kriel as outside centres.

So what if DDA is a Springbok contracted player? He's out of form, and AC should have done right by him and allow him to play himself back in form with WP before being selected for the bokke.

Seems to simple to have not happened. DDA is already getting paid by the Boks regardless of playing for them while another - non central contracted - player would need to get paid for their time in Bok camp, right?

A European based player would also demand a larger fee to be in camp because their market compensation rate is higher, right? AND their opportunity cost (getting injured and losing a Euro denominated contract) is also higher.

If I have this wrong please let me know. At the end of the day it looks like SARU needs to find more money to pay more players so that the Boks can have more options.

It appears to me that economics is working against the Boks regardless of selection policy. Might as well just exclude the Euro based players and get on the high number of caps bandwagon that most of the other unions are on.

People that know more about rugby than me have told me that AC is an ass but I don't think that coaching is much of a lever for the Boks right now. It is a horrible short term situation for a coach to step into. If he has truly lost the changing room that is one thing but everyone needs to realize that it is not an easy situation.

Economics combined with the fact that the Boks are in a natural transition period after the sun setting of a good generation is a perfect storm right now. I think that those are just the facts.

 

[JJFlash]

France cannot afford to have another first half like Saturday's game against NZ and get blown away. They simply have to get stuck in as soon as the ref gets the game under way. I have a feeling that they will get stuck in (says me, the eternal optimist!) and will win. It may not be by many, but enough to quieten the doubting Thomas's - of which there are many.
Bastareaud must not play - and not even be on the bench and neither should Huget. Penaud must be included at centre. I'm far from convinced that Guirado is the man to skipper the side - but who to replace him?

 

[JohnKA]

AC is clueless ,,, he could not do anything with the Stormers at SR level how do they think will he perform on the international stage ,,, the problem is not just AC but the people that gave him the job !! ,,, and why is world rugby allowing there to be a quota system anyway ? ,,, Everyone turning a blind eye !

 

[TRF_heineken]

Seems to simple to have not happened. DDA is already getting paid by the Boks regardless of playing for them while another - non central contracted - player would need to get paid for their time in Bok camp, right?

A European based player would also demand a larger fee to be in camp because their market compensation rate is higher, right? AND their opportunity cost (getting injured and losing a Euro denominated contract) is also higher.

If I have this wrong please let me know. At the end of the day it looks like SARU needs to find more money to pay more players so that the Boks can have more options.

It appears to me that economics is working against the Boks regardless of selection policy. Might as well just exclude the Euro based players and get on the high number of caps bandwagon that most of the other unions are on.

People that know more about rugby than me have told me that AC is an ass but I don't think that coaching is much of a lever for the Boks right now. It is a horrible short term situation for a coach to step into. If he has truly lost the changing room that is one thing but everyone needs to realize that it is not an easy situation.

Economics combined with the fact that the Boks are in a natural transition period after the sun setting of a good generation is a perfect storm right now. I think that those are just the facts.

It doesn't really matter where in the world you are playing, when you are selected for the Springboks, you get the same compensation for that position. The thing is that if you are a Springbok contracted player, you get an additional income above your normal union/franchise contract.

We have more than enough foreign and local players that specialized at inside centre and who is on form to counter the argument for selecting DDA. Here's a few:
Rohan Janse van Rensburg
Stokkies Hanekom
Burger Odendaal
Wynand Olivier
Frans Steyn
Francois Venter
Andre Esterhuizen
Juan De Jongh
Jan Serfontein

 

[JohnKA]

Il maybe replace wynand Olivier with Marius louw in that list Xd

It doesn't really matter where in the world you are playing, when you are selected for the Springboks, you get the same compensation for that position. The thing is that if you are a Springbok contracted player, you get an additional income above your normal union/franchise contract.

We have more than enough foreign and local players that specialized at inside centre and who is on form to counter the argument for selecting DDA. Here's a few:
Rohan Janse van Rensburg
Stokkies Hanekom
Burger Odendaal
Wynand Olivier
Frans Steyn
Francois Venter
Andre Esterhuizen
Juan De Jongh
Jan Serfontein