Guess who the Ref for NZ v Australia is!

[smartcooky]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cyRil of Ospreylia @ Sep 11 2009, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I was at the Mill for the game and sat behind one of the goalposts, so I've never actually seen the forward pass!

It is true that everyone accepts now that NZ will get away with almost anything, I've always found it hilarious and so ironic that they've never let up about this forward pass.[/b]

Cyril, forward passes happen in a game, some get called, some dont, and in any case, Kaplan, the far side TJ was in a better position to see it anyway, so he was more culpable than Barnes. Most thinking Kiwi rugby fans aren't really concerned about the forward pass.

You will find that What most ****** them off most is that a supposed top level referee was unable to see ruck offsides that were only slightly to the left and right of his line-of-vision for 40 consecutive minutes. Inexperienced combat pilots suffer a similar problem when they come under pressure... its called "target fixation"; they become so intent and focussed on what they are looking at that they lose their "situational awareness" and fail to notice the obvious, and often more important things that are happening around them.

 

[Steve-o]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Sep 11 2009, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (polonius @ Sep 11 2009, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As for Wayne Barnes, he is a perfectly capable referee; most times he gets it right, but sometimes he gets it wrong - just like all the others.[/b]

With reference to Saturday's game....

2. Positioning
I am still not convinced that he positions himself well. He is certainly different in that regard from any other elite referee I watch. He seems to mostly set himself in position to watch everything the attack does at ruck and maul, often getting himself behind the attacking ruck. IMO this is no-mans land; not only is it impossible to see what the defence is doing, it doesn't allow him to quickly check either. Consequently, his focus is more on the attack, and he has a tendency to penalise attacking sides for technical infringements, rather than pinging the more important stuff, the offsides around the fringes of the ruck & maul.

[/b][/quote]
Spot on, I think this is his big problem. He even got run into by an attacking player on Saturday.

 

[smartcooky]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ Sep 11 2009, 11:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Spot on, I think this is his big problem. He even got run into by an attacking player on Saturday.[/b]

Yep. Elsom in the 54th minute

That position he takes up directly behind the attacking team's side of the ruck we call the "chariot" position.
We try to discourage referees from positioning themselves there because;

a. you can only see what the attacking team is doing so it encourages you to focus only on that.
b. you are far more likely to be in the way of the players
c. you are in danger of getting in the "pass line" for a dropped goal attempt.
d. you limit the scrum-half's passing options.

At a ruck or maul, the referee should ideally be positioned slightly ahead of the either team's hindmost foot, (i.e. the offside line) and about 3 to 5 metres away. Any pass you get in the way of there is forward anyway, and any player you are in the way of is offside. If the players see you there, they are less likely to loiter or remain offside. When positioned on the defending side, it is acceptable to be slightly behind the defending team's hindmost foot so as not to get in the way of defenders on the offside line.

This is poor positioning by Mr Barnes;

Here are four examples of good positioning;

 

[Jethro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (polonius @ Sep 11 2009, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jawmalawm24 @ Sep 11 2009, 12:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that's what Paddies probably trying to say is that we need to get a grip which is true but still it remains that the fact of the matter is Wayne Barnes is not well liked here in New Zealand whether he was right or wrong it won't matter to the crowd they'll give him s#@! for the rest of his career.

It's just like B.O.D and Umaga Ireland will never get over it they'll go on about til days end and we'll continue to give Barnes a ear full til his days end too.[/b]

The collapse of respect for New Zealand rugby after the spear tackle incident wasn't just restricted to Ireland. There are plenty of English, Scots and Welsh who will never think highly of the All Blacks again.

As for Wayne Barnes, he is a perfectly capable referee; most times he gets it right, but sometimes he gets it wrong - just like all the others. As for the forward pass incident, it was just as much the touch judge's call as it was his.
[/b][/quote]

Are you a journalist by the name of Jones? You need to pull out the McCaw arguement next. The spear tackle, which actually wasn't at the time according to the law book, was unfortunate but I note Northern hemisphere supporters pretty much paper over the fact BOD was at the time woefully off side and Tana tried to halt BOD's motion in the air. From memory the resulting advantage was given to NZ with the touch judge being in a prime position to make a call.

If you have lost respect for New Zealand rugby due to one incident I would respectively suggest you switch to supporting wendy ball as about every other test match throws up an "incident".


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gavin @ Sep 11 2009, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I personally like Barnes, not because I support Australia, but the way he speaks to the players I like. Most players he would call by their first name and seem friendly. Barnes does make mistakes, like that forward pass he missed in the 2007 World Cup, but he doesn't make as much as other guys. He is also very young, and will be about for a very long time.[/b]

Barnes can ref as many Irish games as you care to put on, personally as long as they don't involve either the ABs or Wooblies (live here so my second team) I'm happy with life. If you think this guy can Ref then you are getting exactly what you deserve.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cyRil of Ospreylia @ Sep 11 2009, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I was at the Mill for the game and sat behind one of the goalposts, so I've never actually seen the forward pass!

It is true that everyone accepts now that NZ will get away with almost anything, I've always found it hilarious and so ironic that they've never let up about this forward pass.[/b]

Actually most kiwis aren't concerned with the blatant forward pass, strangely Paddy had advised Barnes not to listen to his touch judges, we're more concerned with forty minutes of French infringement that went unnoticed by Barnes. As stated the Ref was, and still is, woefully out of his depth at the international level. BTW the loss to France at that world cup while ******* me off comes down to the ABs inability to pull out a decent plan "B" in the face of a hostile Ref, a problem we have never really overcome. Well done France on the day, like the Aussies they take advantage of everything thrown their way, something the ABs and I believe England need to get in touch with.

 

[jawmalawm24]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (polonius @ Sep 11 2009, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The collapse of respect for New Zealand rugby after the spear tackle incident wasn't just restricted to Ireland. There are plenty of English, Scots and Welsh who will never think highly of the All Blacks again.

As for Wayne Barnes, he is a perfectly capable referee; most times he gets it right, but sometimes he gets it wrong - just like all the others. As for the forward pass incident, it was just as much the touch judge's call as it was his.[/b]

Just like you say the touch judge's call was just as much to blame so was Kevin Mealamu for the spear incident. Thou back than they were only touch judge's and not assistant referees and Kevin Mealamu was a smaller target than Umaga.

Regardless Barnes is hated in New Zealand and that wont change for ages and if he makes anymore cock ups in a game between the All Blacks and any opposition I'm sure there'll be a huge reaction.

 

[Ripper]

Funny that the same Northern Hemisphere fans who were *****ing about screwing up during the 6 Nations are now suddenly Wayne Barnes BFF for life.

 

[cyRil]

Whoyouchattinboutnow??

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ripper @ Sep 11 2009, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Funny that the same Northern Hemisphere fans who were *****ing about screwing up during the 6 Nations are now suddenly Wayne Barnes BFF for life.[/b]

I prefer Taizo Hirabayashi myself...

...and his father recomends to Wayne Barnes:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

" Everybody can achieve things if they go slowly."[/b]

And
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

"The head is not used only for wearing a hat."[/b]

 

[polonius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ Sep 11 2009, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Sep 11 2009, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (polonius @ Sep 11 2009, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As for Wayne Barnes, he is a perfectly capable referee; most times he gets it right, but sometimes he gets it wrong - just like all the others.[/b]

With reference to Saturday's game....

2. Positioning
I am still not convinced that he positions himself well. He is certainly different in that regard from any other elite referee I watch. He seems to mostly set himself in position to watch everything the attack does at ruck and maul, often getting himself behind the attacking ruck. IMO this is no-mans land; not only is it impossible to see what the defence is doing, it doesn't allow him to quickly check either. Consequently, his focus is more on the attack, and he has a tendency to penalise attacking sides for technical infringements, rather than pinging the more important stuff, the offsides around the fringes of the ruck & maul.

[/b][/quote]
Spot on, I think this is his big problem. He even got run into by an attacking player on Saturday.
[/b][/quote]

But is he spot on, tough? He is critical of Barnes because he penalises infringements.

Refereeing a rugby match is an extraordinarily difficult thing to do. Not only are there a myriad of rules to cope with, those rules change regularly and there are also different interpretations of those rules. Add to that groups of players from all countries/clubs who will go to the limit of those rules and beyond.

Cut the refs a little slack, understand that he does not always have the benefit of instant ultra slow motion replays of every incident, acknowledge not every decision will go your way and if a ref penalises 'technical infringments' then the fault lies squarely with the players for making those infringements rather than the ref for spotting them.