R
Ripper
Guest
Come to Napier then... You'll have 2 Weirdos talking to you - me and my Maths teacher whos from Canada.
-
Help Support The Rugby Forum :
C
captainamerica
Guest
Sometimes I begin a post, and then go get a drink.
Or poo.
I mean, go for a poo. Not get one.
R
Ripper
Guest
Yes... well I guess no one can accuse you of mincing your words... or posts.
{Off Topic}
So... hows life?
{Off Topic}
So... hows life?
C
captainamerica
Guest
Life is good.
You?
C
Confused
Guest
It is true. That being said, it doesn't mean that we don't like other sports. We, as a country, just tend to invent our own sports and then like them better than others. (football, basketball, baseball, and NASCAR are prime examples) We don't really care if the rest of the world likes soccer, rugby, F1 etc... and completely hates NASCAR. It is irrelevant to us. We like what we like.
I, for one, have tried playing cricket, soccer, rugby, and field hockey (that's another all girl game where I'm from). I like playing pretty much any sport, but I'm not going to spend a whole afternoon or evening watching somebody else play soccer, cricket, or field hockey. I don't even really like watching baseball except at the ballpark or during the playoffs. Rugby on the other hand hooked me. I am not against any sport, I just prefer American sports (with the exception of rugby).
What I still can't figure out is the non-American obsession with the "amateur" and therefore somehow inferior status of NCAA football. I have played rugby with quite a few guys from various countries, and I can get them to go to an NFL game, but they invariably say "why would I want to pay to go see a bunch of amateurs" when I suggest a college football game. When I saw that same reply in this forum, I felt the need to try to explain the passion for college football. You have to experience a college football game to really appreciate it. Probably much like my soccer experience in a German bar.
NCAA 2006 comes out tomorrow!!!
K
kaftka
Guest
Actually, if it was in NZ, I think everyone falls under number 3.
Well, I do.
We had an Irish rugby team at my school. I called him over just so he could say potatoes.
Oh, and I wanted to see what pants he was wearing.
B
Black|Raven
Guest
^weirdo
C
contepomi
Guest
Football Manager is every bit as hard going a top team, as the pressure is on you more.
U
USArugger
Guest
Since I started the whole thread, I guess I can weigh in again. I don't think there is anything comparable to NCAA sports in other countries. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I found the whole "amateur" issue rather strange also since NCAA sports are a whole separate but just as exciting brand of sports. The Bowl Games and March Madness are as good or better than the professional versions. With the NHL on strike last year, I even think the college hockey Frozen Four had quite a few otherwise "NHL only" fans interested. We don't have any type of minor league that is popular in these sports, so college sports fill that void. Additionally, the college sports are older and full of much better rivalries than pro sports.
College sports have a certain passion surrounding them that can't really be explained. You have to experience the whole thing. I certainly can't rate a Big Ten, SEC, or ACC match-up as inferior to the pros. In many ways, these games are more exciting to watch and can definitely be more exciting to attend in person.
As far as video games go, I'll take NCAA over Madden any day.
College sports have a certain passion surrounding them that can't really be explained. You have to experience the whole thing. I certainly can't rate a Big Ten, SEC, or ACC match-up as inferior to the pros. In many ways, these games are more exciting to watch and can definitely be more exciting to attend in person.
As far as video games go, I'll take NCAA over Madden any day.
S
sanzar
Guest
Fair enough... This basically comes down to a cultural difference I guess. In most other western nations Universities and Colleges are primarily educational facilities, and any sporting activities are purely a side event... Sure there are rivalries, but it's not serious like professional sports, and people are basically out there for fun.
That's true for the most of the world, just the other way around... I don't think anyone really care what sports americans think are better, because apart from them no one else takes any of their sports all that seriously, and so generally no one takes all that much notice of what Americans think about sport, the same way americans generally don't really take any notice of international sports. It basically seems as though, in sporting terms, that the there is the 'US world of sports' and then the 'Real World of Sports'. An example of of this is how NFL the superbowl champs get crowned "world champions"
For me personally, I have had a look at baseball (which my girlfriend loves as she's Japanese) from time to time, but I can't really get all that into it... Same thing with Gridiron. I've got an American mate who's had me over and got me to watch it on cabel, so I sorta get the rules now, but watching a game live is just so bloody torturous! You spend more time watching the bloody commercials FFS! I personally just find it bloody hard to watch coming from a rugby backround where the game keeps moving.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Why? Is the gameplay superior, or is it just because of the whole tradition thing?
R
Ripper
Guest
NCAA is a superior game series IMO... Thats probably because EA usually use it as a crash dummy, you'll see them trying most of the risky innovations on NCAA, then if it all goes well, they'll put it in Madden the next year.
C
Confused
Guest
So then I ask you what the "real" sports are?
I get the "World Champs" crack from most of my euro buddies. I don't even notice it except for the World Series. Look at the NBA and MLB and it is definitely the best players from all over the world competing. They are two truly international sports. Just because all the teams play on one continent doesn't mean it isn't the best players and the best teams (well the NBA might not be the best teams since it's pretty much gangsters trying to hog the ball and score points to get a fat contract). I hate the NBA.
I get the "World Champs" crack from most of my euro buddies. I don't even notice it except for the World Series. Look at the NBA and MLB and it is definitely the best players from all over the world competing. They are two truly international sports. Just because all the teams play on one continent doesn't mean it isn't the best players and the best teams (well the NBA might not be the best teams since it's pretty much gangsters trying to hog the ball and score points to get a fat contract). I hate the NBA.
U
USArugger
Guest
S
sanzar
Guest
I didn't know that either the NBA or MLB had teams from other countries competing... Baseball, your right has a claim to be called international, it's pretty big in a few asian countries and in Mexico etc, but it's still not as internationally competative as Cricket is... But you guys don't generally have sport in which you can legitimately play in say a rugby like test match atmosphere... It's sorta like the Rugby League here. New Zealand play a bit of league and the poms are pretty into it in the north of England, but when an Australian national team comes togeather (even if it's the B or C team) they invariably smash the other 2 serious competators without much difficulty.
U
USArugger
Guest
I don't mean to speak for Confused, but then since he likes to speak for all of us Americans I guess I don't mind speaking for him.
I would assume that Confused was referring to the fact that both basketball and baseball have a strong following outside the USA and most of the best players from all over the world come to the US to play in MLB or the NBA. Carribean and Central/South American players are on most MLB rosters as well as some Canucks and Japanese players here and there. The NBA has a lot of international players. Most basketball fans are pretty happy that the sport is growing in worldwide poularity. Is it a true world championship in the way that it would be if there were a "World Cup" type competition? No. However, they take the best players in the world from many different countries and put a mix of nationalities on different teams and determine the champion from there. That is how I would say that the best basketball/baseball team in the world is probably the NBA/MLB champion.
It is difficult to grow an international competition out of a sport where the season is so long, the players make so much money, their off-season is short, and the leagues don't give full support to the concept.
I think it is a sad reflection of the decline in national pride and the growing "me first" mentality that makes the USA Olympic team a sideshow in basketball rather than a main event. The American public wants a winning Olympic team, but the NBA and the players don't want to give it their focus once every four years.
On a side note, is anyone still logging major hours on Rugby 2005?
I would assume that Confused was referring to the fact that both basketball and baseball have a strong following outside the USA and most of the best players from all over the world come to the US to play in MLB or the NBA. Carribean and Central/South American players are on most MLB rosters as well as some Canucks and Japanese players here and there. The NBA has a lot of international players. Most basketball fans are pretty happy that the sport is growing in worldwide poularity. Is it a true world championship in the way that it would be if there were a "World Cup" type competition? No. However, they take the best players in the world from many different countries and put a mix of nationalities on different teams and determine the champion from there. That is how I would say that the best basketball/baseball team in the world is probably the NBA/MLB champion.
It is difficult to grow an international competition out of a sport where the season is so long, the players make so much money, their off-season is short, and the leagues don't give full support to the concept.
I think it is a sad reflection of the decline in national pride and the growing "me first" mentality that makes the USA Olympic team a sideshow in basketball rather than a main event. The American public wants a winning Olympic team, but the NBA and the players don't want to give it their focus once every four years.
On a side note, is anyone still logging major hours on Rugby 2005?
S
sanzar
Guest
I see what your saying, but it's still primarily an American competition with international players, the same way the 'premier league' is still primarily an English competition with a fair amount of European and south american players... you wouldn't call the Premier League champions world champs, because they're not... they're the premier league champs, nothing more nothing less. But saying that, soccer is infinately more popular and widely played than any other sport on the planet.
C
Confused
Guest
Ok, you don't get it at all and I don't really care. There is no debate over what the world's most popular sport is. Soccer, got it. I never argued that. I just said that I think it's a boring girlie sport.
Could you have a world champion of Aussie Football? Sure you could. I would guess that the champion Aussie Rules Football team is the best team in the world. Why? Because nobody else plays. That does not take away from the fact that they are the best team in the world. The best baseball team (and thus the world champ) is the World Series winner. The world champion luge, figure skating, etc... Hell, the whole winter games excludes more than half the world simply because of weather. Does that mean there is no world champ. Look at hockey. Only the Canucks, Scandinavians, and Russians/former Soviets really take it seriously. Does that mean no world champion? If Russia or the USA loved Rugby as much as Hockey/Football respectively, both teams would be much better. Soccer is a Girls sport here, and guess what? our women have a WC Championship.
Tell me what a real sport is? Because a bunch of damn Brit colonies play a bunch of Brit games (rugby, cricket, etc...) and they happen to be spread around the world it makes it a "Real" world championship? Lets all rally around the Queen and call our sports "real" because we play our former colonies and European neighbors so we can call something the "World Cup"? How about the colony cup? I love the logic...
Bottom line is: The whole thing started with a guy saying he was bored with Rugby 2005 and was waiting for NCAA football to come out. That was answered with a typical bash to college/American sports. I don't know why people care so much about what we do or call the games we play. I don't care what anyone else watches or likes. Good for the whole damn world that likes soccer. What does the fact that it is the world's most popular sport prove? Well, let's see. If you're poor, you can still play as long as you have a ball and some kind of semi-open area. Bingo, you now have the world's most popular sport.
The cliche Euro-trash anti American sports banter is old and boring. You can't have a serious discussion on sport with a Brit (or most of the other colonists) without hearing about our "World Series" or our love of "amateur" sports.
I'm firing back that's all. Now somebody please explain to me what defines a "World Champion" and what makes a sport "Real". You can't You have your opinions just like me. It's a beautiful thing. You have your criteria, but they are meaningless just like mine. Gotta love it!!!
S
sanzar
Guest
Yeah it does actually... in fact it's the whole point! If you call yourselves 'world champs' on the basis that "well no one else plays it and therefore we are the best in the world" you are actually technically correct, but your also having a bit of a **** with the term... The Aussie Rules team could be called the world champions, but they're not the world champions, they're the Australian Rules Champions, nothing more. Just like the Super Bowl Champions aren't the world champions but actually just the "US Super Bowl Champions"! So why not call them what they are?
Basically calling them "world champions" just confirms the rest of the worlds suspicion that Americans think they ARE the whole world...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
No, REAL world sports in most peoples opinions (as in not Americans... but as we've discussed no one cares what you think and you don't care what anyone outside of the US thinks) is having a sport between several countries that can all compete at the elite level... Just because the Poms spread their games more successfully than you lot have, only means that either 1. you didn't try hard enough. Or 2. Most of your games aren't terribly interesting to anyone but Americans...
Soccer may be a boring game for pansies (mind you after watching all the big girls with who prance around in the NFL with their masses of padding and half hour breaks between each play, I don't think your in much of a position to even call soccer players girls), but it is played at an elite level on almost every continent... something which gives it justifiable claims for being called a "real world game", Rugby has roughly 10 nations that can compete at a high level, with 7 being elite, it has a claim to being called a real world sport... Rugby League in Australia is massive, but it only has England and New Zealand to compete with in the international arena and both those teams are a far cry from the quality of the Australian team, but we still call the Australian team "the world champions", but the difference is that even league fans concede that it's a bit of a joke that we do...
Basically my point was just that Americans should take their hand off it and call their teams the "US champs"... unless of course they let the top Japanese, mexican etc teams start to compete in the "world series", something which I heard the Japanese and Mexicans in particular have been demanding.
C
Confused
Guest
Thank you for your definition of a World Champion. My personal opinion is that to truly have a World Championship using your definition it has to be like soccer where most teams are competitive to some degree and there is actually a chance at some real upsets. There is just not enough participation worldwide to call it a World Championship in Rugby. The top six countries boast about 1.6 million registered players while the next 14 have less than 400,000 combined. England alone has more registered players than #7 through #20. In the last Rugby World Cup, England led the way with over 600,000 registered players nationally, while Georgia had 1,400. It's kind of like the Jamaican bobsled team. A joke. People can clain that it is a worldwide sport, but after the top six countries England, South Africa, France, Australia, Japan, and New Zealand, there is not even another country with over 75,000 participants nationwide. And it's really a five team tournament.
Do I love the Rugby World Cup? Yes. I think it's a great thing for rugby worldwide. I am glad the game is catching on, much like basketball and baseball.
Soccer has a World Cup. Rugby is trying to. I understand that it takes time to grow the sport.
FYI baseball has a world cup that will be played next month in Holland. Cuba, USA, Columbia, Puerto Rico, and S. Korea have all won World Cup ***les in the past. Europe, Africa, Australia, Asia, and the Americas are all represented although only the Asian and "Americas" teams really have a chance (much like Rugby only having a handful of "real" teams.) Of course it is right during the final month of the MLB season so none of the best players from around the world will be there because they will all be playing for their MLB teams.
FIBA also has a World Championship in basketball. There are 75 teams in the world rankings. Again, most of the best players are too busy playing in the NBA.
Both baseball and basketball suffer internationally from the fact that they can annoint a "World Champion" in basketball or baseball but everyone knows that the MLB or NBA champ is really the best team so not too many people care. Not arrogance on anyone's part, just plain reality. It is almost similar to the original question of "why care about amateurs?" The biggest fan-base doesn't care about these "World Championships" because they really aren't.
Your suggestion that perhaps we have done a poor job of spreading our sports around the world is indeed wrong. Many people in many places care about Baseball and Basketball. You don't. That is fine. I think your ignorance and stereotypes about your so-called "US" sports shows the exact thing you accuse Americans of.
Do I love the Rugby World Cup? Yes. I think it's a great thing for rugby worldwide. I am glad the game is catching on, much like basketball and baseball.
Soccer has a World Cup. Rugby is trying to. I understand that it takes time to grow the sport.
FYI baseball has a world cup that will be played next month in Holland. Cuba, USA, Columbia, Puerto Rico, and S. Korea have all won World Cup ***les in the past. Europe, Africa, Australia, Asia, and the Americas are all represented although only the Asian and "Americas" teams really have a chance (much like Rugby only having a handful of "real" teams.) Of course it is right during the final month of the MLB season so none of the best players from around the world will be there because they will all be playing for their MLB teams.
FIBA also has a World Championship in basketball. There are 75 teams in the world rankings. Again, most of the best players are too busy playing in the NBA.
Both baseball and basketball suffer internationally from the fact that they can annoint a "World Champion" in basketball or baseball but everyone knows that the MLB or NBA champ is really the best team so not too many people care. Not arrogance on anyone's part, just plain reality. It is almost similar to the original question of "why care about amateurs?" The biggest fan-base doesn't care about these "World Championships" because they really aren't.
Your suggestion that perhaps we have done a poor job of spreading our sports around the world is indeed wrong. Many people in many places care about Baseball and Basketball. You don't. That is fine. I think your ignorance and stereotypes about your so-called "US" sports shows the exact thing you accuse Americans of.
B
Bullitt
Guest
The 'World Series' is called so because 'The World' newspaper originally sponosred the tournament.
And also...
And Less than .5% of the worlds population outside the US give 2 shits about Beefed up rounders, WWF rejects in body armour and cars that only turn left. Fewer still follow them.
And also...
And Less than .5% of the worlds population outside the US give 2 shits about Beefed up rounders, WWF rejects in body armour and cars that only turn left. Fewer still follow them.
