Ideal lineups.

[Christian10]

Hmmm, it really is difficult to name an ideal SA side at the moment but I will try to be as objective as possible keeping in mind what HM has said throughout the year (that Juan Smith or Schalk Burger would have been shoe-ins for captain, that he wanted FdP and Jaque Fourie, that he would have called in Mujati if there weren't visa issues, that he saw Taute and Goosen/Lambie as 15 and 10s if it weren't for injury to experienced guys forcing him to look at other options..);

1 Tendai Mtawarira
2 Bismarck du Plessis
3 Jannie du Plessis
4 Eben Etzebeth
5 Andries Bekker
6 Francois Louw
7 Juan Smith (c)
8 Willem Alberts
9 Fourie du Preez
10 Johan Goosen
11 Bryan Habana
12 Francois Steyn
13 Jaque Fourie
14 JP Petersen
15 Jaco Taute

16 Guthro Steenkamp
17 Brian Mujati
18 Adriaan Strauss
19 Bakkies Botha
20 Schalk Burger / Heinrich Brussow
21 Ruan Pienaar
22 Pat Lambie
23 Jean de Villiers

What about Morne Steyn, mate?

 

[ZeFrenchy]

What about Morne Steyn, mate?

I see you're new to this forum... and haven't been seeing much rugby these last two years.

 

[Christian10]

I see you're new to this forum... and haven't been seeing much rugby these last two years.

Right. I made this topic just to update me a bit myself. I'm trying to learn more. Hope not bother you

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

What about Morne Steyn, mate?

I think I speak for most in SA when I say Morne Steyn is probably 4rth choice right now. And Meyer's selections toward the end seem to suggest he sees it the same way. The only thing he has over Johan Goosen, Pat Lambie and Elton Jantjies is a couple of years age and test experience because he was the best we had at the time.

He has been off form the entire year in terms of his kicking and that is all he really brought to the table; he was a top goal kicking machine. With Fourie du Preez gone Steyn has been exposed and our current 9's can't take full responsibility for creating play any more. That is where the new guys will come in. The 10 jersey is still up for grabs though those three are already ahead of Steyn in the pecking order and rightfully so. Lambie has had the most chance now and at the very last he has been accurate with the boot and much better in defense. He has the most experience of the 3 young 10's and have played with the Bokke at 15 even in the RWC 2011 in NZ.He has had a tough year having been forced to play out of position and it is hoped that an extended run back at 10 will bring him back to his best. Goosen is thought by most to have the most potential but he is also probably the most frail and injury prone and is indeed currently out injured after his first test start. Jantjies is IMO 2nd behind Goosen in terms of play-making but he is the least consistent in performances of the lot.

That is how I see it at least. Those 3 youngsters are the likeliest to wear the no.10 green jersey. Watch for Handre Pollard at the Bulls to put pressure on Steyn as well. I think Steyn might be moving to Japan at the end of next year. Meyer started off trusting overly much too experience ahead of form and potential but the guys he did trust in have repayed his faith and its good for SA that he is giving the rookies their chances albeit almost grudgingly.

 

[Jockstap]

Hmm, attempt to pick a Declan Kidney Irish team, it can't be done, he's just too mysterious.

 

[Christian10]

I think I speak for most in SA when I say Morne Steyn is probably 4rth choice right now. And Meyer's selections toward the end seem to suggest he sees it the same way. The only thing he has over Johan Goosen, Pat Lambie and Elton Jantjies is a couple of years age and test experience because he was the best we had at the time.

He has been off form the entire year in terms of his kicking and that is all he really brought to the table; he was a top goal kicking machine. With Fourie du Preez gone Steyn has been exposed and our current 9's can't take full responsibility for creating play any more. That is where the new guys will come in. The 10 jersey is still up for grabs though those three are already ahead of Steyn in the pecking order and rightfully so. Lambie has had the most chance now and at the very last he has been accurate with the boot and much better in defense. He has the most experience of the 3 young 10's and have played with the Bokke at 15 even in the RWC 2011 in NZ.He has had a tough year having been forced to play out of position and it is hoped that an extended run back at 10 will bring him back to his best. Goosen is thought by most to have the most potential but he is also probably the most frail and injury prone and is indeed currently out injured after his first test start. Jantjies is IMO 2nd behind Goosen in terms of play-making but he is the least consistent in performances of the lot.

That is how I see it at least. Those 3 youngsters are the likeliest to wear the no.10 green jersey. Watch for Handre Pollard at the Bulls to put pressure on Steyn as well. I think Steyn might be moving to Japan at the end of next year. Meyer started off trusting overly much too experience ahead of form and potential but the guys he did trust in have repayed his faith and its good for SA that he is giving the rookies their chances albeit almost grudgingly.

Wow! Excellent report mate. Users like you make me want to get closer to rugby, and start learning with you. Thank you very much.

 

[admartian]

I think I speak for most in SA when I say Morne Steyn is probably 4rth choice right now. And Meyer's selections toward the end seem to suggest he sees it the same way. The only thing he has over Johan Goosen, Pat Lambie and Elton Jantjies is a couple of years age and test experience because he was the best we had at the time.

He has been off form the entire year in terms of his kicking and that is all he really brought to the table; he was a top goal kicking machine. With Fourie du Preez gone Steyn has been exposed and our current 9's can't take full responsibility for creating play any more. That is where the new guys will come in. The 10 jersey is still up for grabs though those three are already ahead of Steyn in the pecking order and rightfully so. Lambie has had the most chance now and at the very last he has been accurate with the boot and much better in defense. He has the most experience of the 3 young 10's and have played with the Bokke at 15 even in the RWC 2011 in NZ.He has had a tough year having been forced to play out of position and it is hoped that an extended run back at 10 will bring him back to his best. Goosen is thought by most to have the most potential but he is also probably the most frail and injury prone and is indeed currently out injured after his first test start. Jantjies is IMO 2nd behind Goosen in terms of play-making but he is the least consistent in performances of the lot.

That is how I see it at least. Those 3 youngsters are the likeliest to wear the no.10 green jersey. Watch for Handre Pollard at the Bulls to put pressure on Steyn as well. I think Steyn might be moving to Japan at the end of next year. Meyer started off trusting overly much too experience ahead of form and potential but the guys he did trust in have repayed his faith and its good for SA that he is giving the rookies their chances albeit almost grudgingly.

I really like Goosen at 10 for SA. even though I like Lambie too and showed promise.

Should be some way to accommodate for both. Maybe the way NZ shuffles/rotates 9s? Seems to work ok.

Don't see Lambie as en effective/dangerous international fullback. And Goosen is most effective driving the ship.

 

[Maxwell]

Umm. Pretty sure that both Sopoaga and Fruean are for the moment playing to earn All Black positions. Nick Williams can't play for Samoa as he's played for the Junior All Blacks - I think Robbie Freaun was also in the 2009 JR All Blacks team. If you're just listing people with Samoan heritage and eligability - I'm sure you could field a much better side than that. Tim Nanai Williams for a start.

If we can put active players in their imaginary best form - and not consider NZ's selection policy...

1. Tony Woodcock
2. Keven Mealamu
3. Carl Hayman
4. Brad Thorn
5. Sam Whitelock
6. Jerry Collins
7. Richie McCaw
8. Kieran Read
9. Byron Kelleher
10. Daniel Carter
11. Joe Rokocoko
12. Ma'a Nonu
13. Conrad Smith
14. Doug Howlett
15. Israel Dagg

16. Andrew Hore
17. Owen Franks
18. John Afoa
19. Ali Williams
20. Jerome Kaino
21. Piri Weepu
22. Luke McAlister
23. Cory Jane

I take your point with Freuen and Nick Williams. I will check with the latter as I work with his sister. Tim Nanai-Williams played 7's for NZ.

 

[Rhyer]

I'm REALLY surprised no one has done one for Australia considering they could really use an 'ideal lineup' as they haven't had anything close to it since 2011. }

1. Benn Robinson
2. Stephen Moore
3. Ben Alexander
4. James Horwill
5. Nathan Sharpe
6. Sitaleki Timani
7. David Pocock
8. Wycliff Palu
9. Will Genia
10. Berrick Barnes
11. Digby Ioane
12. James O'Connor
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper
14. Drew Mitchell
15. Kurtley Beale

I didn't choose Quade because his defence and he is switching codes or something (no contract from the ARU). I believe Timani would be a brute at blindside. I believe that forward pack would **** on most teams as it's extremely physical therefore giving the backs enough room and time. Enough with Pat McCabe, the guy is crap.

 

[nickdnz]

I take your point with Freuen and Nick Williams. I will check with the latter as I work with his sister. Tim Nanai-Williams played 7's for NZ.

Yeah good point. Annoying I can only see the most recent 2009 Junior All Blacks team as All Blacks.com have updated their site - so I can see past junior teams .

If I was going to select a team of players avalible under NZ's selection policy -

1. Tony Woodcock
2. Keven Mealamu
3. Owen Franks
4. Brad Thorn
5. Sam Whitelock
6. Richie McCaw
7. Sam Cane
8. Kieran Read
9. Tj Peranara
10. Daniel Carter
11. Julian Savea
12. Ma'a Nonu
13. Conrad Smith
14. Cory Jane
15. Israel Dagg

16. Andrew Hore
17. Charlie Faumuina
18. Wyatt Crockett
19. Brodie Retallick
20. Victor Vito
21. Aaron Smith
22. Aaron Cruden
23. Richard Kahui

 

[Rhyer]

I can't believe Jerome Kaino left so early. I guess it's best to go out with a huge motherflippin' bang like he did, but still. I will forever remember him destroying everyone in the 2011 RWC. I remember in the semi against Australia when Digby Ioane cut through most of the team until he reached Kaino, bam!

 

[Draggs]

Gatland/Howley Special:

01 Jenkins
02 Rees
03 JonesAR
04 JonesAW
05 Charteris
06 Lydiate
07 Warburton
08 Jones
09 Phillips
10 Priestland
11 North
12 Roberts
13 Davies
14 Cuthbert
15 Halfpenny

16 Owens
17 James
18 Jarvis
19 Evans
20 JonesRP
21 Knoyle
22 Hook
23 WilliamsS

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Wow! Excellent report mate. Users like you make me want to get closer to rugby, and start learning with you. Thank you very much.

De nada.

I really like Goosen at 10 for SA. even though I like Lambie too and showed promise.

Should be some way to accommodate for both. Maybe the way NZ shuffles/rotates 9s? Seems to work ok.

Don't see Lambie as en effective/dangerous international fullback. And Goosen is most effective driving the ship.

Yeah, I think Goosen has the most potential. He has the best pass of the 3, the biggest boot for hopefully finding space at the back or clearing our line rather than those pointless up-and-unders and speed and willingness to take on the line. In school his defense was actually a strong point but early indications are that he is very intimidated ITO his tackling at SR and test levels.

Lambie and Jantjies are great back-ups which will come in handy seeing as Goosen gets injured every other game. The sad part is Lambie is not at all as far ahead of the others simply because he has been shifted about to make room for Michalak and M Steyn. With M Steyn being out of favor (finally!) and Michalak moving back to France Lambie should get a decent run at 10 for the Sharks particularly seeing as they have SA's form 15 in Ludik there with good back-up in Riaan Viljoen and F Steyn at a pinch.

 

[nickdnz]

I can't believe Jerome Kaino left so early. I guess it's best to go out with a huge motherflippin' bang like he did, but still. I will forever remember him destroying everyone in the 2011 RWC. I remember in the semi against Australia when Digby Ioane cut through most of the team until he reached Kaino, bam!

Yeah - it's a shame as we really miss him. Was in the form of his life too. In 2009-2010 we weren't even sure he should be our starting blindside (I thought he should - but I certainly didn't predict the form he'd get too). Now we really miss him. Apparently he wants to return before the next RWC - just wish he stayed for a bit longer and then took a sabatical.

 

[Christian10]

C'mon! What happens to the ideal lineup of France?

 

[Christian10]

C'mon! What happens to the ideal lineup of France?

Nobody?

 

[Helmy]

1. Tony Woodcock
2. Keven Mealamu
3. Owen Franks
4. Brad Thorn
5. Sam Whitelock (although I'm tempted to put Ali Williams, the way these selectors are)
6. Victor Vito (I think Vito, when he hits top form, is what the selectors see in the long term, going off of recent comments)
7. Richie McCaw
8. Kieran Read
9. Piri Weepu
10. Dan Carter
11. Julian Savea/Hosea Gear (Gear hasn't played a blinder for the ABs yet, but if/when he does, I think he might give Savea a run for his money)
12. Ma'a Nonu
13. Conrad Smith
14. Cory Jane
15. Israel Dagg

16. Andrew Hore
17. Wyatt Crockett
18. Ben Franks
19. Ali Williams
20. Liam Messam
21. TJ Perenara
22. Aaron Cruden
23. Richard Kahui (Could have been in the starting XV, but it's hard to know his absolute best as he's constantly plagued with injuries)

 

[Rhyer]

I wish people would give up on Gear. He's not Rico and he never will be. He shows glimpses but I feel he's like Sony Bill Williams in his first year of rugby, big but doesn't use it much. Most of the time he kind of slows down in the tackle and acts like a fairy. Too afraid to show any aggression. Savea really hammers people and uses his size.

 

[big ginger 8]

Think I'm gonna sit back and wait for nick to come on.

 

[Helmy]

I wish people would give up on Gear. He's not Rico and he never will be. He shows glimpses but I feel he's like Sony Bill Williams in his first year of rugby, big but doesn't use it much. Most of the time he kind of slows down in the tackle and acts like a fairy. Too afraid to show any aggression. Savea really hammers people and uses his size.

Him and Rico are completely different players. But, Rico was a fairly late bloomer as well.

Hosea Gear doesn't bust through tackles the same way SBW does. SBW uses pure brute force, whereas Gear tends to let players get a hold of him first before shrugging them off. Probably why he 'acts like a fairy' in the tackle, he's got a different technique to breaking tackles, but I've seen him somehow slip through about three tacklers before. Just because he's big doesn't mean he has to be a absolute brute.

 

[nickdnz]

I wish people would give up on Gear. He's not Rico and he never will be. He shows glimpses but I feel he's like Sony Bill Williams in his first year of rugby, big but doesn't use it much. Most of the time he kind of slows down in the tackle and acts like a fairy. Too afraid to show any aggression. Savea really hammers people and uses his size.

Umm. I don't even know where to start. He's a very different player from Rico. Hosea is much more of a dangerous line breaker in my opinion. Doesn't smash people? Have seen him at all for the Highlanders? He makes some pretty massive hits which often becomes try saving tackles. As for not smashing people with ball in hand - any youtube reel will show that's clearly not the case.

Defense:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqtqsrKs6jo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeqZ1z6bBEM

Attack:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBk6PjwsILA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3Jhe2gMT1c

There's abviously a lot more - I could link tribute videos etc. The point being is that he's actually probably the most physical defender in the All Blacks backline when he's on. I'm not a huge fan of how he is used for the Highlanders as he's not given any space - but I certianly don't think 'fairy' is an accurate or educated comment to make about him. I like Savea and think he's probably the first choice wing on form - but there really isn't much in it.

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

I can't believe Jerome Kaino left so early. I guess it's best to go out with a huge motherflippin' bang like he did, but still. I will forever remember him destroying everyone in the 2011 RWC. I remember in the semi against Australia when Digby Ioane cut through most of the team until he reached Kaino, bam!

Yeah he became our best loose forward, outplaying McCaw and Read that year. I think him and Thorn were the main difference that made last years team better than this years team. Not only was he a strong ball carrier he was also a strong defender and was able to blow oppositions out of rucks.

We really missed him this year, imo he was one of the reason why McCaw was still outplaying Pocock last year, (of course our whole forward pack as well deserves mentioning) but whenever Pocock was getting ready to steal our ball at the breakdown, youll get Kaino in there with the help of Read blowing him out.

Guess hes achieved the highest in winning a world cup, he wants to make money to support his family so good on him, haha would have been good to see him playing in the abs jersey.

Savea really hammers people and uses his size.

Anyone see Savea get a cut ball from Carter and ran straight into Manu. Manu came off second best.

 

[jordiev]

would like to see anyone's opinion on Australia?... as they have so many injuries and have a lot of controversy etc atm...

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Oz top squad would look close to...

1 Alexander
2 Moore
3 Robinson
4 Horwill
5 Sharpe (though of course he is retiring now...)
6 Higginbotham
7 Pocock
8 Palu
9 Genia
10 Cooper
11 Ioane
12 Barnes
13 Ashley-Cooper
14 O'Connor
15 Beale
16 Polota-Nau
17 Kepu
18 Slipper
19 Timani
20 Hooper
21 Phipps
22 McCabe
23 Mitchell

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Gatland's top Wales side-

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Matthew Rees
3. Adam Jones
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Ian Evans
6. Danny Lydiate
7. Sam Warburton
8. Toby Faletau

9. Mike Phillips
10. Rhys Priestland
11. George North
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Richard Hibbard
17. Paul James
18. Craig Mitchell
19. Ryan Jones
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Tavis Knoyle
22. James Hook
23. Scott Williams

I'd swap Rees for Hibbard, Biggar for Priestland, and I want Tipuric playing, because he's the best player in the world. If on form as well, I'd have Morgan Stoddart at 23.

 

[pete82]

Wales:

15. Lee Byrne (Clermont)
14. Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues)
13. Jonathan Davies (Scarlets)
12. Jamie Roberts (Cardiff Blues)
11. George North (Scarlets)
10. James Hook (USA Perpignan)
9. Mike Phillips (Olimpique Bayonnais)

1. Gethin Jenkins (RC Toulon)
2. Richard Hibbard (Ospreys)
3. Adam Jones (Ospreys)
4. Luke Charteris ( USA Perpignan)
5. Alyn-Wyn Jones (Ospreys)
6. Danny Lydiate (NEWPORTgwent Dragons)
7. Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues)
8. Gareth Delve (Melbourne Rebels)

 

[Gaunt15]

England:-

1. Sheridan (Toulon)
2. Hartley (Saints)
3. Cole (leicester)
4. Parling (Leicester)
5. Launchbury (Wasps)
6. Armitage
7. Wood
8. Morgan

9. Youngs
10. Flood
11. Strettle/ Sharples
12. Barritt
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Foden

16. Corbisiero
17. Youngs
18. Botha
19. Croft
20. Haskell
21. Care
22. Burns
22. Brown

 

[BZHopenside]

I'll give the France one a shot:

1. Forestier
2. Swarzeski
3. Mas
4. Pape
5. Maestri
6. Dusatoir
7. Ouedraogo
8. Picamoles
9. Parra
10. Michalak
11. Palisson
12. Mermoz
13. Fofana
14. Clerc
15. Medard

16-18. Clermont Front row
19. Suta
20. Nyanga
21. Machenaud
22. Trinh-Duc
23. Dulin/Huget

Doing this for France is kind of hard. Apparently, no room for Yachvili or Rougerie.

 

[JaredBenjamin97]

South Africa
1. Tendai Mtawarira
2. Bismark Du Plessis
3. Jannie Du Plessis/ Dean Greyling . . . jokes
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Andries Bekker
6. Schalk Burger
7. Juan Smith
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Ruan Pienaar
10. Johan Goosen
11. Bryan Habana
12. Francois Steyn
13. Jacque Fourie
14. JP Pietersen
15. Patrick Lambie
16. Adriaan Strauss
17. Coenie Oosthuizen
18. Juandre Kruger
19. Francois Louw
20. Francois Hougaard
21. Juan de Jongh
22. Jaco Taute

 

[madflyhalf]

Oz top squad would look close to...

1 Alexander
2 Moore
3 Robinson
4 Horwill
5 Sharpe (though of course he is retiring now...)
6 Higginbotham
7 Pocock
8 Palu
9 Genia
10 Cooper
11 Ioane
12 Barnes
13 Ashley-Cooper
14 O'Connor
15 Beale
16 Polota-Nau
17 Kepu
18 Slipper
19 Timani
20 Hooper
21 Phipps
22 McCabe
23 Mitchell

Sorry but, given this

EDIT:This is not about personal taste. This is about to "go inside" the mind of the current coaches and think what would be the ideal lineup for them if all players were in top condition, both physically and on the field.

Australia ideal line-up would be:

1 Pat McCabe
2 Pat McCabe
3 Ben Alexander
4 Pat McCabe
5 Pat McCabe
6 Pat McCabe
7 David Pocock
8 Pat McCabe
9 Nick Phipps
10 Pat McCabe
11 Pat McCabe
12 Pat McCabe
13 Pat McCabe
14 Pat McCabe
15 Pat McCabe

16 Pat McCabe
17 Pat McCabe
18 Pat McCabe
19 Pat McCabe
20 Dave Dennis
21 Pat McCabe
22 Berrick Barnes
23 Pat McCabe


Not the most creative side, but a bit tough.

Being serious... I think Dingo can take home something in terms of selection from this troublesome year!

1 Benn Robinson
2 Stephen Moore
3 Sekope Kepu
4 Kane Douglas
5 James Horwill
6 Scott Higginbotham
7 David Pocock
8 Wycliff Palu
9 Will Genia
10 QC
11 Digby Ioane
12 Ben Tapuai
13 Adam Ashley-Cooper
14 James O'Connor
15 Kurtley Beale

16 TPN
17 Ben Alexander
18 Dan Palmer
19 Sitaleki Timani/Rob Simmons (on top form, the first for phisicality, the second for lineouts)
20 Michael Hooper
21 Nick Phipps
22 Berrick Barnes
23 Nick Cummins (he's been better than anyone in the winger spot this year, much better than Ioane too)/Drew Mitchell


Some choice can be different, it's hard to leave out Michael Hooper, you can switch Pocock at blindside, but lineouts would be significantly affected without Higginbotham (or a jumper n.6).

Tapuai can be a great option at 12, Quade Cooper at the moment, is the only 10 who can create something from nothing. With Genia before and Tapuai outside him he's really a VA to that team.