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Ideal lineups.

With a two prop bench

1; Woodcock
2; Hore
3; O Franks
4; Romano
5; Whitelock
6; McCaw
7; Cane
8; Read
9; Smith
10; Carter
11; Savea
12; Nonu
13; Smith
14; Jane
15; Dagg

16; Charlie
17; Toby Smith
18; Dane Coles
19; Brodie Retalick
20; Liam Messam
21; TJ Perenara
22; Bauden Barrett
23; Richard Kahui

notes:
- Richard Kahui was clearly our best 11 and pretty much on a level with Smith as a 13 before being injured, But Savea has pretty much established himself at 11 (that said if it was a world cup final tomorrow I'd select Kahui over Savea in a heartbeat). I have Jane at 14 but I'd just as easily start him at 14 depending on form. Jane is a great player but compared to Kahui I think Jane has quiet games, not as good on defense (tackling) jane has a bit more x-factor and agility, kahui more size, tough call.
- SBW would be 12 but obviously he's currently playing league. Lets check again in a year or so.
- Going on recent form the best of Mealamu has maybe come and gone, we need New Blood, Coles is the best option right now. Hore is old as well but just seems to be as good as ever. His experience and strength at the breakdown are critical for the AB's.
- McCaw moving to 6 would clearly be the best option for NZ right now, I think the only thing stopping that move is McCaw's ego. He clearly and openly does not want to move to 6 which is a shame I think.
- Pains me not to have Ben Smith in the side, he's about on a level with Dagg at 15 and i think even though Conrad is the best 13 in the world Smith is just as good as him at 13. Just as good at 12 or win as well. Just has not been given the chance.
- I think Toby Smith is a world class Prop, he's had bad luck with injuries and really bad timing with injuries. I think if he gets an injury free season, or even last half a season he will make the All Blacks. This is the guy who could take over from Woodcock as NZ's premier loosehead. Great Scrum, tackles like Owen Franks and is one of NZ's best ball running props.
 
I understand it, just not sure how brutal or controversial I want to be :)
 
1. Corbisiero
2. Hartley (c)
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Parling
6. Launchbury
7. Wood
8. Armitage
9. Care
10. Burns
11. Simpson-Daniel
12. Twelvetrees/Allen
13. Tuilagi
14. Sharples/May/Wade
15. Foden

16. Gray
17. Vunipola
18. Wilson
19. Robshaw
20. Morgan
21. Youngs
22. Farrell
23. Joseph (if May at 14)/Goode (if not)


All of Ireland, England, Wales and France believe they've got the best backrow in Europe. Scotland too sometimes.

Very close between them all.


The Welsh always seem to think they have the best ( insert whatever position you care to name ) in the world ( on form etc etc ) ;)
 
Hmmm, it really is difficult to name an ideal SA side at the moment but I will try to be as objective as possible keeping in mind what HM has said throughout the year (that Juan Smith or Schalk Burger would have been shoe-ins for captain, that he wanted FdP and Jaque Fourie, that he would have called in Mujati if there weren't visa issues, that he saw Taute and Goosen/Lambie as 15 and 10s if it weren't for injury to experienced guys forcing him to look at other options..);

1 Tendai Mtawarira
2 Bismarck du Plessis
3 Jannie du Plessis
4 Eben Etzebeth
5 Andries Bekker
6 Francois Louw
7 Juan Smith (c)
8 Willem Alberts
9 Fourie du Preez
10 Johan Goosen
11 Bryan Habana
12 Francois Steyn
13 Jaque Fourie
14 JP Petersen
15 Jaco Taute

16 Guthro Steenkamp
17 Brian Mujati
18 Adriaan Strauss
19 Bakkies Botha
20 Schalk Burger / Heinrich Brussow
21 Ruan Pienaar
22 Pat Lambie
23 Jean de Villiers
 
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Deccie's dream team?

15) Felix Jones
14) Simon Zebo
13) Keith Earls
12) Gordon D'arcy
11) Andrew Trimble
10) Ronan O'Gara
9) Tomás O'Leary

8) John Muldoon
7) Peter O'Mahony
6) Donnacha Ryan
5) Paul O'Connell
4) Donncha O'Callaghan
3) Tony Buckley
2) Damien Varley
1) James Kilcoyne

Few too many boys from east of the Shannon truth be told, but sure that's life. Honourable mention to Paddy Wallace.
 
USA:

1. Sean Pittman
2. Chris Biller
3. Eric Fry
4. Louis Stanfill
5. Samu Manoa
6. Scott LaValla
7. Taylor Mokate
8. Todd Clever
9. Robbie Shaw
10. Toby L'Estrange
11. Luke Hume
12. Andrew Suniula
13. Paul Emerick
14. Taku Ngwenya
15. Chris Wyles

16. Mike McDonald
17. Calum Black (figures crossed)
18. Derek Asburn
19. Brian Doyle
20. Inaki Basuri
21. Mike Petri
22. Roland Suniula
23. James Paterson
 
USA:

1. Sean Pittman
2. Chris Biller
3. Eric Fry
4. Louis Stanfill
5. Samu Manoa
6. Scott LaValla
7. Taylor Mokate
8. Todd Clever
9. Robbie Shaw
10. Toby L'Estrange
11. Luke Hume
12. Andrew Suniula
13. Paul Emerick
14. Taku Ngwenya
15. Chris Wyles

16. Mike McDonald
17. Calum Black (figures crossed)
18. Derek Asburn
19. Brian Doyle
20. Inaki Basuri
21. Mike Petri
22. Roland Suniula
23. James Paterson

Tough to go inside Tolkin's mind, that #9 jersey seems to be up for grabs right now. I'd argue that Stanfill could move to the back row if Manoa ever played for the Eagles. Also tough to know where MacDonald fits in, and whether he would still get the starting nod over Pittman.
 
Canada for me.

1. Hubert Buydens (Most experienced front rower we have, does tend to run a little hot and cold though)
2. Ryan Hamilton (Developing into a pretty decent player, probably an upgrade over the retired Riordan)
3. Andrew Tieddeman (Close call with Marshall, but I think he's growing as a player more, and dosen't bring the discipline issues that Marshall has, also can play all front row positions)
4. Tyler Hotson (Sinclair could be here, but I'm saving him for the back row, #4 is our weakest spot right now, could have an argument for Beukeboom here as well)
5. Jamie Cudmore (When he's not punching people he is amongst the best in the world)
6. Adam Kleeberger (One of the hardest working players I've ever seen and a great fetcher, Ardron is developing here)
7. Jebb Sinclair (O'Toole's had enough chances, Jebb has played here for WP and the Stormers, he needs to be in the play more and having him here keeps Carpenter in the side.)
8. Aaron Carpenter (Captain, plucky player, a little undersized for an #8, I still want him in the starting lineup, maybe down the road he becomes an impact sub)
9. Phil Mack (A position that is up in the air, Mack is the best attacking option here. Wilson played well in November but I would prefer him off the bench. White should focus on 7's at 15's he's just too inconsistent)
10. Connor Braid (Tons of players coming up in this slot for Canada, but Braid is probably the best at the moment, should have a wealth of choices here in 2015)
11. Matt Evans (Played well here for Pirates, can play a ton of positions in the backs, will have to move to FH if Braid gets hurt with my choices)
12. Conor Trainor (Has become an exciting young player, this used to be a weak spot not so much for now)
13. DTH Van De Merwe (Along with Cudmore one of our two world class players, could make a number of Tier One sides)
14. Phil Mackenzie (Good speed, one of the best fly-hackers I've seen, knows how to make tries out of nothing)
15. James Pritchard (Goal Kicking, Goal Kicking, Goal Kicking, Goal Kicking.....and a touch of solid defence)

16. Ray Barkwill (Lineout expert, a very solid backup option, well liked by the team and a great story getting his first cap at 32)
17. Jason Marshall (Has gotten better since he started playing in the D2, is a good all round athlete, needs to keep the discipline in order tends to get frustrated very easily)
18. Doug Wooldridge (Wish I had a better option here our depth is lacking at Prop)
19. Brett Beukeboom (Monster of a man, had a pro contract now and should get better for now is on the bench as an impact sub)
20. Tyler Ardron (Was a beast at the ARC and actually made a couple of XV's of the week for his great game vs. the Maori)
21. Eric Wilson (Actually needed a backup scrummy more than a FH, again just the best of limited options.)
22. Taylor Paris (Great wheels, could be very useful off the bench exploiting gaps when the oppostion gets tired, maybe I should have a FH specialist here tough call, if so Hearn leaves side and he moves to #23)
23. Ciaran Hearn (Jack of all trades....master of none, can play anywhere in the backs, can goal kick. Dosen't really add too much, but is almost never a weak link)

Guys who miss out, but I would have as reserves.

Nanyak Dala (love him could be useful against smaller sides)
Chauncey O'Toole (has fallen quite a bit off his peak a couple of years ago)
Nathan Hirayama (More a 7's specialist)

I agree with this, for the most part. I'd just swap Tiedemann for Marshall and Hearn for Hassler given that Evans is every bit as versatile. With Evans in the 23, I don't see much need for Hearn when Hassler is so dynamic. And you're right about Wooldridge... What's Rod Snow up to these days? :)
 
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My Ideal Tongan Team

1. Sona Taumalolo
2. Elvis Taione
3. Halani Aulika
4. Joe Tu'ineau
5. Steve Mafi
6. Sione Kalamafoni
7. Nili Latu
8. Viliami Ma'afu
9. Taniela Moa
10. Kurt Morath
11. Fetu'u Vainikolo
12. Sione Piukala
13. Hudson Tonga'uiha
14. Siale Piutau
15. Fangatapu Apikotoa

16. Ilasia Ma'asi
17. Soane Tonga'uiha
18. Tevita Mailau
19. Lua Lokotui
20. Hale T-Pole
21. Samisoni Fisilau
22. Will Helu
23. Vunga Lilo

Players who are also eligible who would love to see in red jersey:
Ma'afu Fia
Colby Fainga'a
Liaki Moli
Sam Wykes
Augustine Pulu
Suliasi Taufalele
George Moala
 
Hmmm, it really is difficult to name an ideal SA side at the moment but I will try to be as objective as possible keeping in mind what HM has said throughout the year (that Juan Smith or Schalk Burger would have been shoe-ins for captain, that he wanted FdP and Jaque Fourie, that he would have called in Mujati if there weren't visa issues, that he saw Taute and Goosen/Lambie as 15 and 10s if it weren't for injury to experienced guys forcing him to look at other options..);

1 Tendai Mtawarira
2 Bismarck du Plessis
3 Jannie du Plessis
4 Eben Etzebeth
5 Andries Bekker
6 Francois Louw
7 Juan Smith (c)
8 Willem Alberts
9 Fourie du Preez
10 Johan Goosen
11 Bryan Habana
12 Francois Steyn
13 Jaque Fourie
14 JP Petersen
15 Jaco Taute

16 Guthro Steenkamp
17 Brian Mujati
18 Adriaan Strauss
19 Bakkies Botha
20 Schalk Burger / Heinrich Brussow
21 Ruan Pienaar
22 Pat Lambie
23 Jean de Villiers
What about Morne Steyn, mate?
 
What about Morne Steyn, mate?

I think I speak for most in SA when I say Morne Steyn is probably 4rth choice right now. And Meyer's selections toward the end seem to suggest he sees it the same way. The only thing he has over Johan Goosen, Pat Lambie and Elton Jantjies is a couple of years age and test experience because he was the best we had at the time.

He has been off form the entire year in terms of his kicking and that is all he really brought to the table; he was a top goal kicking machine. With Fourie du Preez gone Steyn has been exposed and our current 9's can't take full responsibility for creating play any more. That is where the new guys will come in. The 10 jersey is still up for grabs though those three are already ahead of Steyn in the pecking order and rightfully so. Lambie has had the most chance now and at the very last he has been accurate with the boot and much better in defense. He has the most experience of the 3 young 10's and have played with the Bokke at 15 even in the RWC 2011 in NZ.He has had a tough year having been forced to play out of position and it is hoped that an extended run back at 10 will bring him back to his best. Goosen is thought by most to have the most potential but he is also probably the most frail and injury prone and is indeed currently out injured after his first test start. Jantjies is IMO 2nd behind Goosen in terms of play-making but he is the least consistent in performances of the lot.

That is how I see it at least. Those 3 youngsters are the likeliest to wear the no.10 green jersey. Watch for Handre Pollard at the Bulls to put pressure on Steyn as well. I think Steyn might be moving to Japan at the end of next year. Meyer started off trusting overly much too experience ahead of form and potential but the guys he did trust in have repayed his faith and its good for SA that he is giving the rookies their chances albeit almost grudgingly.
 
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Hmm, attempt to pick a Declan Kidney Irish team, it can't be done, he's just too mysterious.
 
I think I speak for most in SA when I say Morne Steyn is probably 4rth choice right now. And Meyer's selections toward the end seem to suggest he sees it the same way. The only thing he has over Johan Goosen, Pat Lambie and Elton Jantjies is a couple of years age and test experience because he was the best we had at the time.

He has been off form the entire year in terms of his kicking and that is all he really brought to the table; he was a top goal kicking machine. With Fourie du Preez gone Steyn has been exposed and our current 9's can't take full responsibility for creating play any more. That is where the new guys will come in. The 10 jersey is still up for grabs though those three are already ahead of Steyn in the pecking order and rightfully so. Lambie has had the most chance now and at the very last he has been accurate with the boot and much better in defense. He has the most experience of the 3 young 10's and have played with the Bokke at 15 even in the RWC 2011 in NZ.He has had a tough year having been forced to play out of position and it is hoped that an extended run back at 10 will bring him back to his best. Goosen is thought by most to have the most potential but he is also probably the most frail and injury prone and is indeed currently out injured after his first test start. Jantjies is IMO 2nd behind Goosen in terms of play-making but he is the least consistent in performances of the lot.

That is how I see it at least. Those 3 youngsters are the likeliest to wear the no.10 green jersey. Watch for Handre Pollard at the Bulls to put pressure on Steyn as well. I think Steyn might be moving to Japan at the end of next year. Meyer started off trusting overly much too experience ahead of form and potential but the guys he did trust in have repayed his faith and its good for SA that he is giving the rookies their chances albeit almost grudgingly.
Wow! Excellent report mate. Users like you make me want to get closer to rugby, and start learning with you. Thank you very much.
 
I think I speak for most in SA when I say Morne Steyn is probably 4rth choice right now. And Meyer's selections toward the end seem to suggest he sees it the same way. The only thing he has over Johan Goosen, Pat Lambie and Elton Jantjies is a couple of years age and test experience because he was the best we had at the time.

He has been off form the entire year in terms of his kicking and that is all he really brought to the table; he was a top goal kicking machine. With Fourie du Preez gone Steyn has been exposed and our current 9's can't take full responsibility for creating play any more. That is where the new guys will come in. The 10 jersey is still up for grabs though those three are already ahead of Steyn in the pecking order and rightfully so. Lambie has had the most chance now and at the very last he has been accurate with the boot and much better in defense. He has the most experience of the 3 young 10's and have played with the Bokke at 15 even in the RWC 2011 in NZ.He has had a tough year having been forced to play out of position and it is hoped that an extended run back at 10 will bring him back to his best. Goosen is thought by most to have the most potential but he is also probably the most frail and injury prone and is indeed currently out injured after his first test start. Jantjies is IMO 2nd behind Goosen in terms of play-making but he is the least consistent in performances of the lot.

That is how I see it at least. Those 3 youngsters are the likeliest to wear the no.10 green jersey. Watch for Handre Pollard at the Bulls to put pressure on Steyn as well. I think Steyn might be moving to Japan at the end of next year. Meyer started off trusting overly much too experience ahead of form and potential but the guys he did trust in have repayed his faith and its good for SA that he is giving the rookies their chances albeit almost grudgingly.
I really like Goosen at 10 for SA. even though I like Lambie too and showed promise.

Should be some way to accommodate for both. Maybe the way NZ shuffles/rotates 9s? Seems to work ok.

Don't see Lambie as en effective/dangerous international fullback. And Goosen is most effective driving the ship.
 
Umm. Pretty sure that both Sopoaga and Fruean are for the moment playing to earn All Black positions. Nick Williams can't play for Samoa as he's played for the Junior All Blacks - I think Robbie Freaun was also in the 2009 JR All Blacks team. If you're just listing people with Samoan heritage and eligability - I'm sure you could field a much better side than that. Tim Nanai Williams for a start.

If we can put active players in their imaginary best form - and not consider NZ's selection policy...

1. Tony Woodcock
2. Keven Mealamu
3. Carl Hayman
4. Brad Thorn
5. Sam Whitelock
6. Jerry Collins
7. Richie McCaw
8. Kieran Read
9. Byron Kelleher
10. Daniel Carter
11. Joe Rokocoko
12. Ma'a Nonu
13. Conrad Smith
14. Doug Howlett
15. Israel Dagg

16. Andrew Hore
17. Owen Franks
18. John Afoa
19. Ali Williams
20. Jerome Kaino
21. Piri Weepu
22. Luke McAlister
23. Cory Jane

I take your point with Freuen and Nick Williams. I will check with the latter as I work with his sister. Tim Nanai-Williams played 7's for NZ.
 
I'm REALLY surprised no one has done one for Australia considering they could really use an 'ideal lineup' as they haven't had anything close to it since 2011. }

1. Benn Robinson
2. Stephen Moore
3. Ben Alexander
4. James Horwill
5. Nathan Sharpe
6. Sitaleki Timani
7. David Pocock
8. Wycliff Palu
9. Will Genia
10. Berrick Barnes
11. Digby Ioane
12. James O'Connor
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper
14. Drew Mitchell
15. Kurtley Beale

I didn't choose Quade because his defence and he is switching codes or something (no contract from the ARU). I believe Timani would be a brute at blindside. I believe that forward pack would **** on most teams as it's extremely physical therefore giving the backs enough room and time. Enough with Pat McCabe, the guy is crap.
 
I take your point with Freuen and Nick Williams. I will check with the latter as I work with his sister. Tim Nanai-Williams played 7's for NZ.

Yeah good point. Annoying I can only see the most recent 2009 Junior All Blacks team as All Blacks.com have updated their site - so I can see past junior teams :(.

If I was going to select a team of players avalible under NZ's selection policy -

1. Tony Woodcock
2. Keven Mealamu
3. Owen Franks
4. Brad Thorn
5. Sam Whitelock
6. Richie McCaw
7. Sam Cane
8. Kieran Read
9. Tj Peranara
10. Daniel Carter
11. Julian Savea
12. Ma'a Nonu
13. Conrad Smith
14. Cory Jane
15. Israel Dagg

16. Andrew Hore
17. Charlie Faumuina
18. Wyatt Crockett
19. Brodie Retallick
20. Victor Vito
21. Aaron Smith
22. Aaron Cruden
23. Richard Kahui
 

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