Ireland’s tour of South Africa

[munstermuffin]

Baseless speculation that Prendergast won't play enough rugby is what I've been arguing against this entire time, it's pointless, negative and when I see it elsewhere seems very malicious. Thats where the Crowley comparison came from and I'm not crying about it, I'm very much using it to show you Prendergast is on a similar trajectory if not a little bit ahead.

When I was backing Crowley a few years ago there was no "he has to play games or he won't reach his potential" and he was behind Carbery and Healy in the 10 shirt at the time.

But I never said that I said it was key he does. Leinster have 4 10s. It impossible to please them all. I never said anything about Prendergast not playing.
If anything based on the reports tonight I think Leinster just made a big mistake with Harry Byrne and a new contract if the mumblings are true.
If Prendergast does improve you'd imagine he gets in the 23 fairly fast.
If he gets in the 23 you back him to make starting jersey his.

Jack Crowley was the same. People were saying he had to be a 10. Remember his first few games were 12. People were hesitant about that. But people said the same because it is just facts about 10s. Same for Frawley. He will never reach a tip URC level 10 even because he is a utility player. A good 1 and will do for 10 or 15 mins a game etc like final. And make serious impact.
On Crowley by the way some people backed Ben Healy too it was a divide in some senses whereas everyone is united on Prendergast.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

But I never said that I said it was key he does. Leinster have 4 10s. It impossible to please them all. I never said anything about Prendergast not playing.
If anything based on the reports tonight I think Leinster just made a big mistake with Harry Byrne and a new contract if the mumblings are true.
If Prendergast does improve you'd imagine he gets in the 23 fairly fast.
If he gets in the 23 you back him to make starting jersey his.

Jack Crowley was the same. People were saying he had to be a 10. Remember his first few games were 12. People were hesitant about that. But people said the same because it is just facts about 10s. Same for Frawley. He will never reach a tip URC level 10 even because he is a utility player. A good 1 and will do for 10 or 15 mins a game etc like final. And make serious impact.
On Crowley by the way some people backed Ben Healy too it was a divide in some senses whereas everyone is united on Prendergast.

Prendergast was ahead of Harry Byrne the last two games, two interpros one of which was a knockout game, it’s safe to say he’s number two now.

Frawley isn’t a starting 10, only a 6/2 sub. Very much a utility player. SP might not play as much in Europe next year if Leinster continue with the 6/2 but he’ll start far more games which will be more beneficial at this stage.

I remember Crowley coming through, it was managed very well and after the emerging Ireland tour he went from strength to strength.

 

[munstermuffin]

Prendergast was ahead of Harry Byrne the last two games, two interpros one of which was a knockout game, it's safe to say he's number two now.

Frawley isn't a starting 10, only a 6/2 sub. Very much a utility player. SP might not play as much in Europe next year if Leinster continue with the 6/2 but he'll start far more games which will be more beneficial at this stage.

I remember Crowley coming through, it was managed very well and after the emerging Ireland tour he went from strength to strength.

Yes and Prendergast I have no doubt will be same just 10s need to play regularly. The mumblings regards Byrne tonight are unrelated to any selection but he ain't in South Africa and from what I'm hearing tonight issues are irreconcilable and may be out of D4 before we know it permanently.

Frawley as you say is a luxury utility. Can cover 10 but isn't a 10

 

[Groundhog]

I'm kind of more interested in the Emerging squad. Interested to see how it's approached.

 

[munstermuffin]

I'm kind of more interested in the Emerging squad. Interested to see how it's approached.

Well it a sticky situation as presumably no front line Internationals around and URC games argubally more important. Slimmer squads too so will be interesting to see even what size squad.

 

[Saintjay]

Excuses in early?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/cnkk3njwzdeo

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Prendergast should have the 22 jersey if we don’t go 6/2. And I don’t think Frawley warrants the 23 jersey.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

JGP out. Will miss the start of next season too.

 

[munstermuffin]

JGP out. Will miss the start of next season too.

That a massive loss

 

[big ginger 8]

Squad announced at 4:30. Haven't seen anything elsewhere about JGP but being minus him and Keenan would be a major blow.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Squad announced at 4:30. Haven't seen anything elsewhere about JGP but being minus him and Keenan would be a major blow.

I never verified it to be fair. Just assumed it was announced when I was told.

 

[big ginger 8]

Wonder who'll be the 3rd 9 of JGP is out? Probably Blade?

 

[rN_X]

I am very excited for these tests. Wonder why they made it 2 and not 3 like previous series were.

I predict SA will win both games but it will be close and loads of handbags . Media have made a real meal of it and some fans fell right for it.

Ireland have always been my fav NH team but these days with them being a top playing nation have become bit or a rival!

 

[Reiser99]

JGP out. Will miss the start of next season too.

Ouch, not only has he been one of your best players, for Leinster too, but he's also been one of the most consistent. Not sure I fancy your chances without a settled half back pair.

 

[big ginger 8]

Forwards:

Ryan Baird (Dublin University/Leinster) 20
Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht) 40
Tadhg Beirne (Lansdowne/Munster) 50
Caelan Doris (St Mary’s College/Leinster) 41
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 76
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 129
Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 39
Cormac Izuchukwu (Ulster/Ballynahinch)*
Oli Jager (Munster) 1
Ronan Kelleher (Lansdowne/Leinster) 31
Joe McCarthy (Dublin University/Leinster) 10
Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)(captain) 105
Tom O’Toole (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 13
Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 64
Cian Prendergast (UCD/Connacht) 3
James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 62
Dan Sheehan (Lansdowne/Leinster) 26
Nick Timoney (Banbridge/Ulster) 3
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster) 62

Backs:

Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 56
Caolin Blade (Galwegians/Connacht) 2
Craig Casey (Shannon/Munster) 14
Jack Crowley (Cork Constitution/Munster) 14
Ciaran Frawley (UCD/Leinster) 4
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster) 72
Jordan Larmour (St Mary’s College/Leinster) 32
James Lowe (Leinster) 31
Stuart McCloskey (Bangor/Ulster) 17
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 116
Calvin Nash (Young Munster/Munster) 6
Jimmy O’Brien (Naas/Leinster) 8
Jamie Osborne (Naas/Leinster)*
Sam Prendergast (Lansdowne/Leinster)*
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 58
Jacob Stockdale (Lurgan/Ulster) 37

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

The time of Byrnes is over, the time of Prendergast has begun.

 

[munstermuffin]

The time of Byrnes is over, the time of Prendergast has begun.

Yet when I said Prendergast target should be Ireland 22 shirt you said it unrealistic.

On squad. Disappointing that Hodnett didn't make it as he has been excellent all season and is a real 7.

Also interesting Frawley named as an outhalf

Actually how is Larmour and Stockdale there.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yet when I said Prendergast target should be Ireland 22 shirt you said it unrealistic.

No I didn’t I just said it wasn’t the be all and end all if it didn’t happen. Byrne forced Farrell’s hand there at the weekend too really.

On squad. Disappointing that Hodnett didn't make it as he has been excellent all season and is a real 7.

Also interesting Frawley named as an outhalf

Actually how is Larmour and Stockdale there.

Back three picks are worrying alright. I just don’t see what coaches are seeing in Larmour.

 

[munstermuffin]

No I didn't I just said it wasn't the be all and end all if it didn't happen. Byrne forced Farrell's hand there at the weekend too really.

Back three picks are worrying alright. I just don't see what coaches are seeing in Larmour.

Regardless on Prendergast I think this road is clear for him to be Leinster 10 now. Get there as I was saying and other targets come.

On back 3 I think Daly for 1 should have been there for his performances. But again that is saying he has done better than 2 lads but won't be a difference in being a better international standard.

People will say Coombes has been hard done and I'd disagree. Gav had superb end to season but it was off bench. I think Cormac Izuchukwu was very good last few weeks and just needs to stay fit.
I think John Hodnett and Dave McCann definitely can feel really annoyed. I think both offer more than Cian Prendergast based on present form and ability.

My other worry is Healy and POM there. Pete has actually been poor the last few weeks for us and Cian Healy is spent. And I don't mean that in a bad way but this tour should be used to move on like with some. Doris to me should be captain too

 

[big ginger 8]

Going in with no JGP, Conan, Hansen or Keenan is going to make this even tougher than it already was.

Big ups to Cormac Izuchukwu.

Edit: Healy is there because no one has established themselves as deserving of a spot which is worrying but at least one of Boyle and McCarthy should be in a much stronger position this time next year. Farrell has had a look at Loughman a few times and obviously feels he's better off with either TOT or Bealham covering there.

I'd hope Baird starts at least one test. Would be a disaster not to bring POM after the whole debacle. Have no real worries about our ability to produce 6s anyway.

 

[munstermuffin]

Going in with no JGP, Conan, Hansen or Keenan is going to make this even tougher than it already was.

Big ups to Cormac Izuchukwu.

Edit: Healy is there because no one has established themselves as deserving of a spot which is worrying but at least one of Boyle and McCarthy should be in a much stronger position this time next year. Farrell has had a look at Loughman a few times and obviously feels he's better off with either TOT or Bealham covering there.

I'd hope Baird starts at least one test. Would be a disaster not to bring POM after the whole debacle. Have no real worries about our ability to produce 6s anyway.

I'd disagree as Loughman has been superb last few weeks for Munster. But more so are we looking short term or long term. Cian Healy is pushing on has 1 year left really. We need to develop depth. You mention Boyle or McCarthy but will they get enough gametime. Healy, Milne and Porter will all be ahead.
Same for POM. I'd agree we need to start others. But POM is captain so he will start 2 tests. We have 1 #8, 2 LHP and then overloaded in other positions. It is unbalanced in some ways. I think Baird may lose out in a test actually as they have overloaded flanks I think Baird may lose out or James Ryan and Baird go lock replacement for 1 test

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

You’d swear we were 5 international class players deep from the twitter reaction to the squad. Back three aside I can’t think of anyone who can feel massively massively hard done by. Some in form guys like Hodnett but I think he’ll be looked back on as a Moloney type player, great provincial player but without the athletic profile for the international game. Shane Daly and Stewart Moore are the only guys who I think can look at someone in the squad (Larmour and Frawley in his capacity as a 15) and think they’re a better player and could offer more to the team/squad.

I think the emerging tour will shine a light on who’s being lined up for these guys, this summer is a tour we don’t need one bit in all honesty.

 

[munstermuffin]

You'd swear we were 5 international class players deep from the twitter reaction to the squad. Back three aside I can't think of anyone who can feel massively massively hard done by. Some in form guys like Hodnett but I think he'll be looked back on as a Moloney type player, great provincial player but without the athletic profile for the international game. Shane Daly and Stewart Moore are the only guys who I think can look at someone in the squad (Larmour and Frawley in his capacity as a 15) and think they're a better player and could offer more to the team/squad.

I think the emerging tour will shine a light on who's being lined up for these guys, this summer is a tour we don't need one bit in all honesty.

It's not a case of who didn't make it. I still think Hodnett would offer something but it more our depth chart is shallow.
For alot of arguments it effectively splitting hares. I just feel this tour could be bad. And that is more to the point of this season more than ever the Leinster players looked spent after a long long season when you factor in the RWC had them back early. And physically this may be a bridge too far.
R&R. ANd wheather we are happy or agree with it. Leinster are the bulk and core of squad so if they aren't fresh it hurts Ireland. Equally sending more from other provinces can lower overall standard and equal result

 

[Groundhog]

I hope I feel differently by the time this rolls around, but my enthusiasm for this tour is rock bottom. I don't think we will do particularly well on the pitch (I think we will get 2-0'd), and probably just serves to flog the players after a pretty demoralising infini-season since the World Cup.

I won't argue the merit of selections, it is what it is, but from a selfish personal POV it definitely doesn't increase my interest. Izuchukwu is probably the one selection that I will watch with interest.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

The squad is hardly in a bad place though so it doesn’t really call for an exciting young addition (and for the life of me I can’t think of one of those outside Osbourne who I’d want to see on the pitch). The EI tour is around the corner, if we use that as well as last time then the autumn and six nations squads will look a bit different.

There’s talent coming through from the last few successful 20s classes, they just need a minute.

 

[munstermuffin]

The squad is hardly in a bad place though so it doesn't really call for an exciting young addition (and for the life of me I can't think of one of those outside Osbourne who I'd want to see on the pitch). The EI tour is around the corner, if we use that as well as last time then the autumn and six nations squads will look a bit different.

There's talent coming through from the last few successful 20s classes, they just need a minute.

I think it more the interest and excitement is dead amongst all other provinces at present. Nothing to do with performances etc.

Probably just needs a bit more input from other provinces and I suppose after a long rugby season some just burnt a bit too.

 

[irisht]

No one cares about this tour that I know.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Bok squad. Bunch of injuries but feel like they’re in better nick than us being down our two key backs and most impactful bench player.

 

[big ginger 8]

Their strength in depth is fairly insane.

Reckon we'll be going with a 6 2 split, which feels a lot more lacking without Conan, wonder will Timoney be trusted with the 21 shirt.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Their strength in depth is fairly insane.

Reckon we'll be going with a 6 2 split, which feels a lot more lacking without Conan, wonder will Timoney be trusted with the 21 shirt.

Give me the all or some of the following or I just won’t be that into it:

Porter, Sheehan, Bealham, Big Joe, Beirne, Baird, VdF (if only Connors was fit), Doris, Casey, Crowley, Lowe, Henshaw, Ringrose (c), Nash, Jimmatron 5000

Kelleher, prop, Furlong, Ryan, POM, Murray, Prendo, Osbourne