Ireland Squad 2018/2019

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by Amiga500, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    Farrell had completely slipped my mind. Still, he only has the three caps and only one of those was particularly memorable so I'd be wary enough.
     
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  3. Amiga500

    Amiga500 Senior Member

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    Well, I'd say he showed much promise against Argentina, then of course the big 6N game and don't remember the other one...

    But of course, compared to Garry Ringrose, he's an awful lot to prove - and you never know how a player will come back from an ACL.
     
  4. Leinster Fan

    Leinster Fan Senior Member

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    His performance against Argentina was very good as well in fairness. If he comes back at the level he was at he'll be first choice center in Munster and second choice 13 for Ireland.

    More importantly though, it's worth saying that the Aki/Henshaw centre partnership just doesn't work at international level. Are attack doesn't function with it. The difference in both attack and defence when Ringrose came in for the second test in Australia would have been funny if it hadn't highlighted just how much we need him. I'd say we could to a job with Farrell there (just like I'd say we could survive with Carbery at 10) but Henshaw needs a 12 that can pass/run if he's playing 13 and Aki isn't that at international level (he can do it for Connacht)
     
  5. Leinster Fan

    Leinster Fan Senior Member

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    So I take it for Argentina we're looking at all of the players who didn't play this week starting and then we'll see for the bench. I'd guess/like something like this.

    1. Healy
    2. Best
    3. Furlong
    4. Henderson
    5. Ryan
    6. O'Mahony
    7. O'Brien
    8. Stander
    9. Cooney (they all played so this is a guess/wish)
    10. Sexton
    11. Earls
    12. Henshaw
    13. Ringrose
    14. Larmour (deserves a start and probably won't get one v ABs)
    15. Kearney

    16. Cronin
    17. Kilcoyne (like Larmour, deserves this game and then McGrath back for NZ)
    18. Porter
    19. Beirne
    20. Conan (no idea so I'm just picking the best one from yesterday)
    21. Marmion
    22. Carbery (maybe Byrne)
    23. Stockdale (maybe Addison if we want utility)

    Of that, I'd say we'll see Beirne come in for NZ unless Henderson tears it up, the rest of the pack should stay the same although the 3 back rows are all under pressure. I'm just guessing with the nines, no clue what the story is but in my opinion Marmion is the weakest of them (not that I know anything). I'd say we'll see Stockdale against NZ as well.
     
  6. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    Beirne and Murphy will be the 19. and 20. Murphy is a great impact and the two of them offer the option to completely change up the backrow if needed, and when we lose its often because the backrow doesn't achieve dominance.
     
  7. Leinster Fan

    Leinster Fan Senior Member

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    Yeah totally forgot about Jordi. He'd be the obvious choice on the bench. Equally good at 6,7 and 8, has never let Ireland down and is always strong off the bench.
     
  8. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    Things I'd say.

    Based on form Kilcoyne is ahead of McGrath the past few months.
    Rory Best is under huge pressure as our other hookers are on form. Niall Scannell neing taken off at half time may signal he will play a bit next week. Cronin is the best 16 in world rugby.

    Porter may in my eyes have cemented the 18 jersey. He has pulled away from Ryan and Bealham the last few weeks.

    Beirne and Ryan are the best locks. Toner still has a role but as a squad player. Henderson now has a real fight on too.

    POM will always start in NR due to lineout and standing in squad. Schmidt is hige fan of CJ and SOB but thing is there is about 7 options there and none of these really weaken it if called on.

    9. It is what it is. Murray miles agead of rest. And rest are ranked based on what day it is.

    10. Joey showed he is getting up there. Hes no Sexton but is now confident as a 10 more so as he is a general of a team and that brings its own confidence.
    Centre is still a worry. Not due to individuals but more trying to cement a solid duo at this level that click offensively.

    Back 3 really still are settled. Earls and RK are not going to be dropped. Stockdale is a finisher. And well Larmour really only other guy who I think will challenge them. Rest are solid options but wont break in to 23.
     
  9. Leinster Fan

    Leinster Fan Senior Member

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    Kilcoyne has been in good form but still it's going to be very very hard for him to get in ahead of McGrath. McGrath has proven himself at the highest level for years and has a massive amount of experience that's probably worth more than good form. Definitely a better scrummager as well. He's been working his way into a bit of form over the last few weeks. He picked a s*** time to be injured at the start of the season though, those games would have done him no end of good. Kilcoyne should get a chance of the bench next week though and then we'll see from there.

    Agree re Best he's under big pressure. Like O'Mahony though his leadership and standing in the squad he might hang on though. Scannell has been very good for Munster but maybe missed an opportunity to a certain extent yesterday. At his age big chance injury will make the choice for us. Sean Cronin has perfected the impact sub role. Porter is gaining more and more of a stranglehold on the 18 jersey every international window. His work at the breakdown has been noticeably better this season as well.

    I'm with you in the second row. Looking back as well it's really turned around it was perceived as a weakness a while ago and now we've got four top quality options. It's been said enough times but we should all take a moment to just appreciate how stupidly good James Ryan is.

    Agree on O'Mahony even if it's not always obvious we're always much better with him in the team. Leadership as much as anything. Backrow is unbalanced without him as well. Stander at 6 seemed like a great idea at the time but looking back O'Mahony was always the better choice. Beirne is the only one who could challenge him because they're very similar skillset wise but I think we're better keeping both in their natural positions for the time being. Stander is under big pressure given that O'Brien, Vdf and Conan are all in good form and he isn't tbh.

    At scrumhalf I've no idea how to deal with the backups but this international window will definitely give us a much better idea of where we stand. Depressingly it'll probably underline just how important Murray is.

    Out half is looking better than it was a while ago. Carbery and Byrne are both improving. Still wish Paddy Jackson was less of an idiot though.

    Centre like second row has seen a bit of a turnaround as well in recent times. Henshaw/Ringrose has the potential to be very very good as a partnership but they have an annoying habit of getting injured just as the other one is getting fit. I'm a McCloskey fan as well but offloading is a big part of his game and that doesn't happen under the current regime. Same goes with Aki to a certain extent. I'd worry if Ringrose goes down though because Henshaw doesn't create enough at 13.

    Earls and Kearney have won Joe's trust and for a coach who always goes for defensive solidity in the backline that's invaluable. Stockdale and Larmour are after them. Stockdale is a key player for us because he scores tries and finishes off attacks and we generally struggle(d) with that. Larmour's abiltity to play across the back 3 and cover centre makes him a certainty for the 23. Conway and Addison are next in line and they're good options, Conway is solid going back and can be excellent going forward and Addison's versatility is a big plus. I'd be happy enough to see either of them playing but I wouldn't like to rely on either of them for an extended run of games. After that there's a big list of fringe wingers, Sweetnam's top of that list for the moment but they're all going to need an injury crisis to see serious game time.

    All in all we're in a very strong position compared to both other international squads and where Irish squads (if not teams) have generally been at this point. Won't stop me watching the ABs game and the World Cup more in hope than expectation.
     
  10. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    I'd disagree on McGrath. I feel since the Lions he has struggled a bit and mainly is going on reputation a bit. Not that he has been awful or that Kilcoyne is clearly ahead. Just McGrath is not as good as he used to be. Seems to be a victim of that Lions tour.

    In my eyes regarding centre it's Henshaw or Aki at 13. Ringrose as starting 13 and if he's not available a Chris Farrell is much better at 13 than the other 2 if fit. At international level Aki and Henshaw are 12's. Not 13. Ringrose playing highlights this hugely. As BOD said before 12 and 13 are worlds apart in mentality and this is shown to be true.
     
  11. Leinster Fan

    Leinster Fan Senior Member

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    I know what you're saying about McGrath and in fairness I can't deny that reputation is getting him picked, but at the same time there's a lot of value in bringing a 50 cap lion off the bench who you know you can rely on. He's much more reliable in the scrum as well and when the other front row replacements are Cronin and Porter that's key. If Kilcoyne was a young player bursting onto the scene I'd be all for it but he's 29, at his peak, not much potential upside and there's absolutely no doubt about who's a higher quality player.

    Agree 100% about everything you've got to say about centres.
     
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  12. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    But my point is in exactly what you are saying. He has a reputation moulded by experience and that is what is getting him selected a bit now. Kilcoyne could come on and be brilliant but equally be the cause of few pens. As I said I'm not saying it a disgrace on McGrath being 17 just that I think he is being slightly over hyped on his form lately by some.

    Regardless Healy is a country mile clear of them.
     
  13. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    I think Jack and Healy are pretty neck and neck this season. Jack has been much better after the summer off while Healo has been leaking penalties and his hands have left much to be desired. I'd have Healy for the time being but McGrath is definitely looking for that 1 shirt come the RWC.
     
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  14. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    I don't know still looks well off it from what I've seen. Again as I say I'm not saying he has been awful but just he's not been as good as made out. Like some said he was excellent against Italy but I think he was ok. I think if he is to reclaim that #1 shirt he will have to start pulling up trees fast.
     
  15. Leinster Fan

    Leinster Fan Senior Member

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    Tom Farrell and Adam Byrne are in camp, which will be a good boost for both their confidence. They probably won't play unless someone who was set to play the USA picks up an injury. Adam Byrne is probably top of the list of promising Leinster players likely to leave soon. He's to good to be sitting on the A team and his performances in the last few Pro14 games have shown that. He's got the skillset required to win a fair few international caps and be at semi-regular starter for a Heineken Cup team but it's not going to happen at Leinster where he seems to have gone from competing to start in Europe to having to work his way back up from the very bottom.

    Anyway, on the actual USA game, we're going to see an almost completely different squad to thus weekend, playing NZ will be a brutally attritional game and with European back to backs the provinces would be rightfully outraged if they were kept back to play a Tier 2 game. These games are big for deciding the pecking order after first/second choice so they're important and the USA will be a good test for our lads on current form.

    I'd expect it to be similar enough to the game against Fiji last year, too many guys nervous because they know they only get these chances once a year at most, lots of errors but one or two standout performances. Might get uncomfortably close at some point but the bench will put it to bed and hopefully put a decent gap on the scoreboard.

    I'd expect something like:

    1. Kilcoyne
    2. Scannell
    3. Ryan
    4. Beirne
    5. Roux
    6. Ruddock
    7. Murphy
    8. Conan

    9. Cooney
    10. Byrne
    11. Addison
    12. McCloskey
    13. Arnold
    14. Sweetnam
    15. Conway

    16. Herring
    17. McGrath
    18. Bealham
    19. Henderson
    20. Josh Vdf
    21. McGrath
    22. Carbery
    23. No idea but not Larmour because I can't see him playing 4 in a row, maybe Adam Byrne?

    Mostly just based on who hasn't really played, and who realistically won't because player welfare etc.
     
  16. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    LH - Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne
    Hooker - Best, Cronin, Scannell
    TH - Furlong, Porter, Ryan
    Lock - Toner, Ryan, Hendy, Beirne
    Backrow - POM, Stander, VdF, Leavy
    SH - Murray, Marmion
    OH - Sexton, Carbery
    Centre - Ringrose, Henshaw, Aki
    Back Three - Kearney, Earls, Stockdale, Larmour

    For my money all these guys are dead certs for the plane. Also for my money I think I've spotted a mistake on Joe's part, he needs to start considering Carbery as a 15 as well as a 10 - In that case we can bring Byrne along, leave Addison at home and bring Chris Farrell and I think we have our strongest squad with the most room for rotation. There is only 28 names up there so that leaves a backrow too and the spot goes to SOB or Murphy in the likely scenario SOB's not fit, both are players who can cover 8 off the bench, both add more than Conan too and if Stander goes down we fly Conan straight in and same with POM and Ruddock. I imagine guys like Conan, Ruddock, Addison, Conway etc... will be getting homework from Japan too.
     
  17. Amiga500

    Amiga500 Senior Member

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    Can't disagree with much of that.

    Maybe injuries around 6N times will give others a chance. But can't see there being anyone coming in from outside the wider squad as we know it already - and I can see only one guy having even a snowballs chance in hell of playing himself into Joe's thoughts.

    Most likely from the four corners of the island to get a look in would be:
    West: Denis Buckley. Would need McGrath and Healy to be injured. Don't think killer did himself any favours in the USA match.
    North: Mick Lowry. Would need to get playing at 10 and be the standout in the Pro14 from now till Feb to get a chance off the bench in the 6N and would then have to fully grasp it.
    East: Rory O'Loughlin - which would be if Ringrose was injured for Leinster. To be honest, that would likely bring on panic stations.
    South: Sam Arnold - same as above - would need Ringrose and Chris Farrell to be out.
     
  18. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    I think myself Addison goes as centre cover, Jordi goes unless SOB lights it up hugely. Too many inhuries so needs to earn it now.

    I understand what you're saying on Byrne and Joey but Joey won't get time 15 and I think that means Byrne stays and possibly Conway, Farrell or a Cooney or McGrath goes.

    I think Conan definitely won't go. Ruddock very unlikely. The unfortunate part is though there is usually 1 who gets ruled out by injury.

    @Amiga I watched USA game sparingly from Italy but Schmidt name checked him as a performer and notes he has pressure on McGrath and Healy. Now I know he's not that close but by referencing that and nixed with he's in camp alot and playing very well for Munster it may take alot to oust him
     
  19. Leinster Fan

    Leinster Fan Senior Member

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    I think in most positions the pecking order is relatively obvious, it's more how many players we take in each position. Backrow is maybe the obvious position in terms that it's not really clear. I'd think SOB over Murphy, they both play all across the backrow but it's obvious that O'Brien has the far greater pedigree. Now obviously there's a legitimate chance he's broken as a rugby player etc but if he's fit I think Joe will definitely take him. It's hardly likely Vdf, Leavy and SOB will all be fit at the same time in any case. I'd look at Conan and Ruddock as direct backups for Stander and POM respectively but I don't think either are likely to make the initial squad barring injuries (which let's face it all pur backrows bar Stander are prone to).

    Marty Moore was injured and didn't get a chance to have a crack at getting into the November squad, but he really helped Ulster's form once he started playing. It's an open question though but you'd think it'll be very hard for him to get in given he was never really a Schmidt player originally and was mainly getting picked at 18 cause there was no one else. I'm not sure I'd say Kilcoyne is obvious, he's established himself as third choice LH but realistically he's never making that 23 without an injury no matter how angry it might make some Munster fans (not here). I think it's possible that we bite the bullet and go for 5 props, we did it last time with Furlong as LH cover, given we actually have players this time who've played a bit on both sides in Porter, Ryan and Bealham it's arguably more likely than last time.

    Second row is obvious unless someone's injured in which case it's Roux or maybe Kleyn (or maybe even someone from Ireland? - throwaway comment I don't want to sidetrack the thread).

    Scrumhalf goes 1. Murray 2. Marmion 3. McGrath 4. Cooney in Schmidt's eyes and even though you could probably find several Ireland fans who rank the latter three in literally any possible order you could think off it doesn't seem likely to change. Barely matters anyway because they're really close and Murray is miles better than all of them.

    Sexton, Carbery and Byrne (Byrne might not but he shiuld) should all go and I think Carbery should be seen at least as an auxiliary option at 15 at the very least. Real question in the centre is does Chris Farrell go or does Addison cover 13 from the back three. Depends on their respective form but I'd lean towards the latter. Conway will have to play really well to go and the fact that he doesn't cover centre will probably hurt him.
     
  20. Leinster Fan

    Leinster Fan Senior Member

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    Apparently Henshaw could miss the start of the Six Nations. He's getting no luck with injuries at the moment. Still think he's our best 12 but realistically the longer Aki and Ringrose stay together the harder it's going to be to break them up. Chris Farrell (also injured) is probably getting ahead of him at 13 as well. As I say though, still our best 12.
     
  21. Leinster Fan

    Leinster Fan Senior Member

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    Henderson injured. Pity but chance for Beirne. There’s not much there after him and Dev/Ryan though (unless we dip into the evil players playing abroad pool) so that’s another three players that need not to get injured over Christmas.
     
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