Ireland v France

[JohnBE]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Feb 8 2009, 08:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Feb 8 2009, 08:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Feb 9 2009, 07:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnBE @ Feb 8 2009, 07:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what is this about ROG?.. he played very well.. his passing was top class..

look he set off the leinster backline a hell of a lot better than Contemponi or Nacewa..

When you take Rog out of the setup you realize how good he actually is.

O'Gara played very well in that game and without him we would not have won, end of as far as Im concerned[/b]

Yeah but his kicking was horrid. he kicked directly yo the hands of the back 3 and his place kicking was iffy.
[/b][/quote]
A lot of teams had the same problems in the RWC playing against the ABs. In the end, only SA and Arg really knew how to kick against a deep back three.

Wallace's boot should have been used more to take pressure off ROG and keep the French back three guessing - by the time he gets the ball they're thinking uh-oh better move up in defence, then the kick goes in behind them. Surely that's why he was on the pitch.

One thing we didn't try was the cross pitch kick - but you need Horgan for that.

Watched the game again today, and Heaslip was actually better than Harinord - amazing, smart player.
[/b][/quote]

but that's not what he does for Ulster so why would Kidney select him to play a different game at international level?
[/b][/quote]


To be completely honest i don't think Paddy is of international class and although he'll be left in for next week, I reckon you will see D'arcy return at 12.

One other thing is Fitz on the wing.. I don't like him there really, prefer him at 13 or 12..


And as was previously said, what a bench ireland have to choose from at the moment..and infact..if the bench got injured....if the bench fell over.. there is still another 7 top class players who can step up

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnBE @ Feb 8 2009, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Feb 8 2009, 08:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Feb 8 2009, 08:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Feb 9 2009, 07:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnBE @ Feb 8 2009, 07:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what is this about ROG?.. he played very well.. his passing was top class..

look he set off the leinster backline a hell of a lot better than Contemponi or Nacewa..

When you take Rog out of the setup you realize how good he actually is.

O'Gara played very well in that game and without him we would not have won, end of as far as Im concerned[/b]

Yeah but his kicking was horrid. he kicked directly yo the hands of the back 3 and his place kicking was iffy.
[/b][/quote]
A lot of teams had the same problems in the RWC playing against the ABs. In the end, only SA and Arg really knew how to kick against a deep back three.

Wallace's boot should have been used more to take pressure off ROG and keep the French back three guessing - by the time he gets the ball they're thinking uh-oh better move up in defence, then the kick goes in behind them. Surely that's why he was on the pitch.

One thing we didn't try was the cross pitch kick - but you need Horgan for that.

Watched the game again today, and Heaslip was actually better than Harinord - amazing, smart player.
[/b][/quote]

but that's not what he does for Ulster so why would Kidney select him to play a different game at international level?
[/b][/quote]


To be completely honest i don't think Paddy is of international class and although he'll be left in for next week, I reckon you will see D'arcy return at 12.

One other thing is Fitz on the wing.. I don't like him there really, prefer him at 13 or 12..


And as was previously said, what a bench ireland have to choose from at the moment..and infact..if the bench got injured....if the bench fell over.. there is still another 7 top class players who can step up
[/b][/quote]

that's what we had in the Autumn, why go back to a failed system, if Wallace wasn't exposed defensively yesterday chances are he'll be alright for the rest of the championship, it worked a treat during the Summer, I felt it worked yesterday so why bother changing, besides D'Arcy isn't up to starting internationals imo

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Feb 8 2009, 07:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Feb 8 2009, 07:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We could do without injury at 1,3,4,5,10. I feel we're adequately covered everywhere else if we face injury. So long as we don't lose any key players I'm not too worried.[/b]

yeah but that'll take momentum out of the squad if we're chopping and changing. I know there's 50/50 calls at hooker, centre, openside, no. 8 but continuity is so important.
[/b][/quote]

It's also important to build a squad of more than 22 players.

Eddie thought 22 players were enough. And players need experience if they're to fill people's shoes when they're passed it. Subtle changes,

Giving the likes of Cave, Ryan and Court a match (not neccesarily at the same time) is important for the future and for squad development. So long as we don't chnage half the team at one go there won't be a loss of continuity.

 

[An Tarbh]

no Eddie thought 15 was enough, Kidney uses the bench wisely. This isn't about building a squad, the squad is there, it's about the here and now which is this years Six Nations. Screw the world cup for now that's over 2 years away, build to that from the Autumn of 2010, the game will have moved on by then anyway.

 

[elgringoborracho]

Just a big bravo to the Irish, playing and winning in a very Munsterish way, which is a compliment. Heaslip has been immense, in all aspects of the game, adding to it a pure class little inside step that made Poitrenaud look like a bellydancer. I sincerely hope they get to the top now, and even after watching the Welsh cack on the Scots I believe that's what's going to happen.

From a french point of view, I'll just say some defeats are worth victories, even if it's quite cruel that it happened on our first (and probably most difficult) game in the tournament. We saw what we had been expecting for a long time offensively, something I think only a few teams are capable of, and resulted in our first try. Tillous Borde - Beauxis worked quite well I reckon, and our centre pair is world class. Harinordoquy, Chabal and Dusautoir were perfect... and not many things need to be corrected in order to start winning games.

We are building a team little by little, with young players who already look experienced, like Beauxis, TB, Medard or Malzieu, and I think that's precisely what Lievremont is trying to do. The hard thing now is for the staff to try and be as positive as I am and not start losing confidence.

Credits to the Irish once again, they fully deserved it, and the fact that I didn't even talk about the refeering is here to prove the point.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Feb 8 2009, 08:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Giving the likes of Cave, Ryan and Court a match (not neccesarily at the same time) is important for the future and for squad development. So long as we don't chnage half the team at one go there won't be a loss of continuity.[/b]

I agree but I don't think the 6 Nations is the time to do it. Court could make a bit of an impression off the bench during this tournament but I'd wait until the summer to cap the likes of Cave, Ross, Humphreys, Ryan (who already has a cameo appearance at international level), Pollock and O'Brien. Come May/June there should be roughly 8-10 Irish players named in the Lions squad (based on 36 players travelling) and a couple more will be rested. Kidney will have 5 games (two tests against USA and Canada plus 3 games in the Churchill Cup) to bed in new troops when the top players are on Lions duty. As things stand, Kidney already has a fair amount of young(ish) players in his 6 Nations best 22 (Kearney, Fitzgerald, O'Leary, Earls, Heaslip, Bowe) - there's no need to bring in more just for the sake of giving them experience. The new look full strength Ireland will really begin to take shape in November.

 

[monkeypigeon]

Ok, you've changed my mind. we have a twenty something man squad that should work for the 6 nations.

Summer tours and such are time for the newbies.

 

[shazbooger]

I'd say an O'Gara, Wallace, Fitzgerald/Earls would be too lightweight a combination. I'd like to see Kidney protect a few players, keep them fresh and maybe just rotate for the sheer feckin hell of it.

Maybe see Murphy or Earls in for Kearney, Leamy in for Ferris or Stringer in for O'Leary. Not on form, but with an eye to the rest of the tournament.

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Feb 8 2009, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I'd say an O'Gara, Wallace, Fitzgerald/Earls would be too lightweight a combination. I'd like to see Kidney protect a few players, keep them fresh and maybe just rotate for the sheer feckin hell of it.

Maybe see Murphy or Earls in for Kearney, Leamy in for Ferris or Stringer in for O'Leary. Not on form, but with an eye to the rest of the tournament.[/b]

If I were throwing Leamy in it would be for Wallace. Big player in for lighter player against the strong Italian pack.

Earls please god before Murphy. He was on for 5 minutes against France and made a mess of the one ball that came his way.

Fitzgerald had by far the highest tackle count against France. Statistics said 13. The next highest was 10 by Dousitour (or however the fock you spell it).

 

[JohnBE]

hmm well I think it's not about changing the starting 15 but instead change around the subs bench..and then you can give players international experience off the bench


for example, against italy maybe dropping some of the older players off the bench..

Actually.. put Sexton on the bench and then give O'Gara the second half off if we are leading by enough(hopeful).

it's very important to not get O'Gara injured and maybe give Mal O'Kelly some game time

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Feb 9 2009, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Earls please god before Murphy. He was on for 5 minutes against France and made a mess of the one ball that came his way.[/b]

Thought he did ok with it - experience showed when he headed for the touchline and faffed about with the ball to stop the quickie.

 

[JohnBE]

having murphy on the bench is always good.. and earls is a 13 really..not a 15

 

[MunsterMan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Feb 8 2009, 11:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Feb 9 2009, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Earls please god before Murphy. He was on for 5 minutes against France and made a mess of the one ball that came his way.[/b]

Thought he did ok with it - experience showed when he headed for the touchline and faffed about with the ball to stop the quickie.
[/b][/quote]

Yeah me too. That was probably the least risky thing he could have done.

 

[monkeypigeon]

I agree that he's an excellent 12 but I don't get why people say he's not a 15. Everytime he plays 15 he does a great job.

 

[JohnBE]

well for ireland's future.. it's better to have him at 13.. because we have a young world class full back.. two wingers who are young.. and O'Driscoll is ageing..so it's where the gap is

 

[monkeypigeon]

Yeah, I know. I agreed. Future's at 13. looks like he'll be there next year for Munster with Felix Jones filling the Fullback position.

I'm just saying.......he can also play 15! And very well at that.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Feb 8 2009, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Feb 8 2009, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd say an O'Gara, Wallace, Fitzgerald/Earls would be too lightweight a combination. I'd like to see Kidney protect a few players, keep them fresh and maybe just rotate for the sheer feckin hell of it.

Maybe see Murphy or Earls in for Kearney, Leamy in for Ferris or Stringer in for O'Leary. Not on form, but with an eye to the rest of the tournament.[/b]

If I were throwing Leamy in it would be for Wallace. Big player in for lighter player against the strong Italian pack.

Earls please god before Murphy. He was on for 5 minutes against France and made a mess of the one ball that came his way.

Fitzgerald had by far the highest tackle count against France. Statistics said 13. The next highest was 10 by Dousitour (or however the fock you spell it).
[/b][/quote]

Dusautoir, but that's neither here nor there, If you put in Leamy for Wallace, who plays openside, one thing I was impressed with yesterday was the fact that Wallace played like an openside, really impressed with his work on the ground, going unnoticed in a lot of quarters, excellent stuff.

 

[gingergenius]

I'd play:
11 - Fitzgerald
12 - BOD
13 - Earls
14 - Bowe
15 - Kearney

that's 3 very exciting youngsters, Bowe who is solid and O'Driscoll who's past his best but still a classy player on his day, plus a big tackler.

I'd keep Shane Horgan around to sure things up in the event of disaster... I also thought he was very underrated.
Plus D'Arcy isn't completely useless.

Ireland's generation that should have won more than triple-crowns has had its day, but there's lots of new players banging around to make them competitive for the next 5 years...

 

[Charles]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Feb 8 2009, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Just to be picky (as is my want) but Ireland outscored France three tries to two.

If France had scored Heaslips try, all the pundits would be wetting themselves. Clean lineout ball, miss pass, loop around, line break by Kearney. Offload to Bowe, linebreak by Bowe, tackle, recycle, fast ball out wide, through two sets of hands (I think) before arriving to Heaslip who was left with a small matter of a 30 yard run through the gap, with two defenders to beat. A nice inside step before he carried the two of them over the line with him. It was class.

As for O'Gara, there were elements of his game that didnt quite click, but his passing throughout was first rate. Most Irish kicking seemed a little aimless (Kearney, O'leary and O'Gara were equally poor at times) through.

I watched the game again this morning and I picked up on a few things.

1. Owens had a good game in general. Hooks (Irish pundit / Idiot with a mic) talk of a home-town ref were far from the mark. Aside from one decision early on that resulted in a turnover for Ireland he pretty much got it bang on. He left a lot of the breakdown go from both sides and only penalised it when foul play was obvious. The french need to learn to stop sealing the ball in the rook. Its so blatantly obvious and no ref will let them away with it.
2. Jausion and Fritz are fookin massive. I never realised Jausion was as big as he is. He dwarfed some of the Irish players.
3. Ireland really look a closer knit group than I have seen them in a while. That Heaslip turnover in the final minutes, celebrated by O'Connell and O'Callaghan. They nearly beat the shite out of him with congratulatory slaps.
4. BO'D had a massive game. Forced at least two turnovers on his own, scored well, distributed well, and didnt kick.
5. Ireland have a proper squad and a coach that is happy to use them. Leamy for Ferris, Best for Flannery, D'Arcy for Wallace. All effective and well timed.[/b]

What a load of dross...You probably forgot to take you green glasses off. The penalty count is 12 to 2 for France, with the 2 pens agains Ireland in the last five minutes, when Ireland were never gonna loose.Teh last time we saw a team infringing twice in a game is a certain quarter final where the referee wasn't really impartial. How is it that french killing the ball is called cynical yet when Ireland players do it it's called "street-wise" ? f***in' double standards...
If you watched carefully you probably also saw the Irish players on the wrong side of the ruck, laying hands on the ball all day long, without even advantage given by the clown with the whistle... He gave plenty of warnings for sure ( rool away green etc) but when France were on defense he went directly to the whistle...

Ex: at the 8 minute, Dusautoir gets tackled by Heaslip and O'Gara, goes to groud, O'gara falls the wrong way killing the ball and Owen goes " Hands away blue" and gives the scrum to Ireland ...Wtf ? :angry:
Can you point exactly when France tried to steal the ball in the ruck please ? I' very curious.
If you ask me France played very well the referee, which is to say we would have got binned for sure if we did but a fraction of what the Irish did.

The truth is France and Italy don't play with the same set of rules than the home nations...I'm not saying the ref cost us the match ( we lack composure ans tactics at crucial times and our defense was suspect) but it would be nice to have a fair ref sometimes. ( of course it's totally happenstance that we gor Rolland to referee us against Italy, a game we would surely win evn with a baised ref)

Yes that is sour grapes and if you don't agree well **** off.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Feb 9 2009, 03:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Feb 8 2009, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just to be picky (as is my want) but Ireland outscored France three tries to two.

If France had scored Heaslips try, all the pundits would be wetting themselves. Clean lineout ball, miss pass, loop around, line break by Kearney. Offload to Bowe, linebreak by Bowe, tackle, recycle, fast ball out wide, through two sets of hands (I think) before arriving to Heaslip who was left with a small matter of a 30 yard run through the gap, with two defenders to beat. A nice inside step before he carried the two of them over the line with him. It was class.

As for O'Gara, there were elements of his game that didnt quite click, but his passing throughout was first rate. Most Irish kicking seemed a little aimless (Kearney, O'leary and O'Gara were equally poor at times) through.

I watched the game again this morning and I picked up on a few things.

1. Owens had a good game in general. Hooks (Irish pundit / Idiot with a mic) talk of a home-town ref were far from the mark. Aside from one decision early on that resulted in a turnover for Ireland he pretty much got it bang on. He left a lot of the breakdown go from both sides and only penalised it when foul play was obvious. The french need to learn to stop sealing the ball in the rook. Its so blatantly obvious and no ref will let them away with it.
2. Jausion and Fritz are fookin massive. I never realised Jausion was as big as he is. He dwarfed some of the Irish players.
3. Ireland really look a closer knit group than I have seen them in a while. That Heaslip turnover in the final minutes, celebrated by O'Connell and O'Callaghan. They nearly beat the shite out of him with congratulatory slaps.
4. BO'D had a massive game. Forced at least two turnovers on his own, scored well, distributed well, and didnt kick.
5. Ireland have a proper squad and a coach that is happy to use them. Leamy for Ferris, Best for Flannery, D'Arcy for Wallace. All effective and well timed.[/b]

What a load of dross...You probably forgot to take you green glasses off. The penalty count is 12 to 2 for France, with the 2 pens agains Ireland in the last five minutes, when Ireland were never gonna loose.Teh last time we saw a team infringing twice in a game is a certain quarter final where the referee wasn't really impartial. How is it that french killing the ball is called cynical yet when Ireland players do it it's called "street-wise" ? f***in' double standards...
If you watched carefully you probably also saw the Irish players on the wrong side of the ruck, laying hands on the ball all day long, without even advantage given by the clown with the whistle... He gave plenty of warnings for sure ( rool away green etc) but when France were on defense he went directly to the whistle...

Ex: at the 8 minute, Dusautoir gets tackled by Heaslip and O'Gara, goes to groud, O'gara falls the wrong way killing the ball and Owen goes " Hands away blue" and gives the scrum to Ireland ...Wtf ? :angry:
Can you point exactly when France tried to steal the ball in the ruck please ? I' very curious.
If you ask me France played very well the referee, which is to say we would have got binned for sure if we did but a fraction of what the Irish did.

The truth is France and Italy don't play with the same set of rules than the home nations...I'm not saying the ref cost us the match ( we lack composure ans tactics at crucial times and our defense was suspect) but it would be nice to have a fair ref sometimes. ( of course it's totally happenstance that we gor Rolland to referee us against Italy, a game we would surely win evn with a baised ref)

Yes that is sour grapes and if you don't agree well **** off.
[/b][/quote]

no doubt there were home town calls, but he got some wrong against us as I've already said.