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durbutter
Guest
Buckley was on the bench, not Court. Still why not bring him on, at least he'd do something in the loose and the scrum could not have gotten any worse........
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Rocket Singh
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Mar 21 2010, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Guys, he isn't Australian so we shouldn't be so soft on him because he could do much better
Guys, he isn't Australian so we shouldn't be so soft on him because he could do much better
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munstermuffin
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noidsay @ Mar 21 2010, 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Sexton as everyone has stated has to get goal-kicking right or he is in trouble. But in open play he is a class act.
Delighted Wally performed well.
Cullen should have been brought on to help struggleng lineout.
Flannery is a massive loss and ok people might dislike him but he is ab immense hooker and a key element of our team.
Exactly and while people BIG up Tom Court they seem to forget Buckley came on against England and Wales and made an impact.
Sexton as everyone has stated has to get goal-kicking right or he is in trouble. But in open play he is a class act.
Delighted Wally performed well.
Cullen should have been brought on to help struggleng lineout.
Flannery is a massive loss and ok people might dislike him but he is ab immense hooker and a key element of our team.
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Gavin
Guest
Just read on the BBC's website:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/8578828.stm</a>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/8578828.stm</a>
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munstermuffin
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gavin @ Mar 21 2010, 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
They have to just accept Scot's out-classed and out-muscled us yesterday and now we have to return to drawing board and correct our errors and return even better.
Again utter BS,
They have to just accept Scot's out-classed and out-muscled us yesterday and now we have to return to drawing board and correct our errors and return even better.
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MunsterMan
Guest
Healy has never looked in trouble for Leinster, because Leinster have two quality foreign tightheads. No doubt that he will develop into a world class prop, he is only 22 for BOD's sake.
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gingergenius
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gavin @ Mar 21 2010, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
There has never, in the history of rugby, been a prop considered world class who couldn't scrum. And Healy is incapable of scrummaging. If I was picking a Lions team now, I'd have Jenkins, Jacobsen, James and even Tim bloody Payne ahead of Healy... not to mention Sheridan.
[/b][/quote]
You've got to be kidding. Healy is a strong prop but he was up against, possibly, the best prop in the world.
[/b][/quote]
He went backwards against Adam Jones, backwards against Cole, and backwards against Mas, and had it roughly even against Castrogiovanni. Thinking back to the autumn, he went backwards against BJ Botha and backwards agaisnt Alexander.
Let's face it, at International level you're nearly always going to be up against strong props.
There has never, in the history of rugby, been a prop considered world class who couldn't scrum. And Healy is incapable of scrummaging. If I was picking a Lions team now, I'd have Jenkins, Jacobsen, James and even Tim bloody Payne ahead of Healy... not to mention Sheridan.
[/b][/quote]
You've got to be kidding. Healy is a strong prop but he was up against, possibly, the best prop in the world.
[/b][/quote]
He went backwards against Adam Jones, backwards against Cole, and backwards against Mas, and had it roughly even against Castrogiovanni. Thinking back to the autumn, he went backwards against BJ Botha and backwards agaisnt Alexander.
Let's face it, at International level you're nearly always going to be up against strong props.
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munstermuffin
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 21 2010, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
There has never, in the history of rugby, been a prop considered world class who couldn't scrum. And Healy is incapable of scrummaging. If I was picking a Lions team now, I'd have Jenkins, Jacobsen, James and even Tim bloody Payne ahead of Healy... not to mention Sheridan.
[/b][/quote]
You've got to be kidding. Healy is a strong prop but he was up against, possibly, the best prop in the world.
[/b][/quote]
He went backwards against Adam Jones, backwards against Cole, and backwards against Mas, and had it roughly even against Castrogiovanni. Thinking back to the autumn, he went backwards against BJ Botha and backwards agaisnt Alexander.
Let's face it, at International level you're nearly always going to be up against strong props.
[/b][/quote]
Great point and it same even with Munster props. We got away with it at times as you don't always meet good props but at International level you will always be made earn your stripes.
Healy isn't a finished article yet and will improve but I am really worried at our lack of prop's and scrummagers coming through.
There has never, in the history of rugby, been a prop considered world class who couldn't scrum. And Healy is incapable of scrummaging. If I was picking a Lions team now, I'd have Jenkins, Jacobsen, James and even Tim bloody Payne ahead of Healy... not to mention Sheridan.
[/b][/quote]
You've got to be kidding. Healy is a strong prop but he was up against, possibly, the best prop in the world.
[/b][/quote]
He went backwards against Adam Jones, backwards against Cole, and backwards against Mas, and had it roughly even against Castrogiovanni. Thinking back to the autumn, he went backwards against BJ Botha and backwards agaisnt Alexander.
Let's face it, at International level you're nearly always going to be up against strong props.
[/b][/quote]
Great point and it same even with Munster props. We got away with it at times as you don't always meet good props but at International level you will always be made earn your stripes.
Healy isn't a finished article yet and will improve but I am really worried at our lack of prop's and scrummagers coming through.
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Bullitt
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (EoinZero @ Mar 20 2010, 06:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Of course, if 2009 had been the rule instead of the exception...
Of course, if 2009 had been the rule instead of the exception...
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Bullitt
Guest
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MunsterMan
Guest
Right, ignore the 2006 and 2007 championships too while your at it. Your a pathetic troll buddy, seriously why bother?
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Bullitt
Guest
2006... Finished 2nd, didn't win. End of year, beat pathetic South Africa and Aussies. Only really pumped the PIs. Hardly an achievement in itself.
2007... Again finished 2nd. Didn't win. Got broken by everyone in the World cup.
Don't give me that ******** about Ireland being "team of the decade second only to the All Blacks". Ireland are perennial first place losers. 2009 was the exception to the rule.
2007... Again finished 2nd. Didn't win. Got broken by everyone in the World cup.
Don't give me that ******** about Ireland being "team of the decade second only to the All Blacks". Ireland are perennial first place losers. 2009 was the exception to the rule.
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snoopy snoopy dog dog
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Mar 22 2010, 04:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Back to the scrum situation, John Hayes isn't good enough any more. His decline this season has been stark. Cian Healy is talented and has shown against Wales, Italy, in last year's Heineken Cup final and throughout this season for Leinster that he can cope manfully in the scrum. His problem when stepping up is that Ireland, ridiculously, haven't had a scrum coach. He's packing down with tight five made up largely of Munster players who, again ridiculously, haven't had a scrum coach for their province. Ireland's scrummaging problems largely stem from this. As long as Munster players dominate the tight five and don't have a scrum coach at provincial level, Ireland will struggle.
I think Ireland and Munster have recently appointed Pat McCarthy to that role though. We'll see if he'll improve matters but he wasn't great in his previous tenure doing the same job. Somebody like Ollie Le Roux or Reggie Corrigan, both of whom have contributed to Leinster's improvement in that area, should get the international gig.
As an aside, teams can cope with a pathetic scrum since their are only 4 or 5 scrums on your own put in per game. If a team lose the lineout and turnover/breakdown battle, they'll more than likely lose. That was Ireland's downfall over the weekend, not the scrum although it obviously helps a lot if you're not going backwards at a rate of knots.
If somebody's trolling, ignore them. The only reason they troll is because they continue to get reactions. People will soon get bored of it if you deprive them of the oxygen they crave.
Back to the scrum situation, John Hayes isn't good enough any more. His decline this season has been stark. Cian Healy is talented and has shown against Wales, Italy, in last year's Heineken Cup final and throughout this season for Leinster that he can cope manfully in the scrum. His problem when stepping up is that Ireland, ridiculously, haven't had a scrum coach. He's packing down with tight five made up largely of Munster players who, again ridiculously, haven't had a scrum coach for their province. Ireland's scrummaging problems largely stem from this. As long as Munster players dominate the tight five and don't have a scrum coach at provincial level, Ireland will struggle.
I think Ireland and Munster have recently appointed Pat McCarthy to that role though. We'll see if he'll improve matters but he wasn't great in his previous tenure doing the same job. Somebody like Ollie Le Roux or Reggie Corrigan, both of whom have contributed to Leinster's improvement in that area, should get the international gig.
As an aside, teams can cope with a pathetic scrum since their are only 4 or 5 scrums on your own put in per game. If a team lose the lineout and turnover/breakdown battle, they'll more than likely lose. That was Ireland's downfall over the weekend, not the scrum although it obviously helps a lot if you're not going backwards at a rate of knots.
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coonor
Guest
fair play to scotland they won the set peice and it was a great game to watch at croke park and what a night in DUBLIN
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feicarsinn
Guest
I recokn we have about 3 or 4 possile front rows to send down south this year with combinations coming from
1) Healy/Horan/Court
2) Flannery/Best/Cronin
3) Buckley/Court
After that it's hard to see anyone else who could put their hand up. I'd go with Healy, Flannery and Court myself and play them in the two big games. We need to get these boys playing as a unit before the world cup next year. Buckley and Best should figure in the 22. I suppose Brett Wilkinson could possibly see a game against the BaaBaas but with Marcus Horan likely to be around until 2011 and Tom Court at home at 1, it's hard to see why Kidney would bother.
1) Healy/Horan/Court
2) Flannery/Best/Cronin
3) Buckley/Court
After that it's hard to see anyone else who could put their hand up. I'd go with Healy, Flannery and Court myself and play them in the two big games. We need to get these boys playing as a unit before the world cup next year. Buckley and Best should figure in the 22. I suppose Brett Wilkinson could possibly see a game against the BaaBaas but with Marcus Horan likely to be around until 2011 and Tom Court at home at 1, it's hard to see why Kidney would bother.
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MunsterMan
Guest
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feicarsinn
Guest
I hopped on the bandwagon slightly before it was fashionable. I have no intention of getting off just yet. I have a feeling however that we may lose some of our Irish posters the way things are going.
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munstermuffin
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Mar 22 2010, 08:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I do know Munster are crying out for a scrum coach and the IRFU should be pushing this as it'll benefit national side as a unit.
As for your front row feicarsinn I like look of it but really would prefer Buckley to start at 3.
I not saying Court bad it just i've been impressed with Buckley in few game in 6N and I still believe if we get someone working on scrummaging then he can improve quickly and massively in that department.
And Buckley raw power is another reason (like John Hayes :bana: ) he has lifting power of 2 players and it is a massive benefit as anyone who studies restarts and lineouts would notice.
I don't think Horan will get back up to international level but hopefully we can get him back up as we need him for World Cup as back up to Healy.
Also if we serious about Cronin then we have to give him game time against NZ or Aus.
As Kidney said regarding Sexton and ROG in Nov "we already know we have one quality 10 now we have to see if we have another"
Well same philosophy applies to Cronin situation and well in backrow Wallace will be restricted to 60mins in fewer games so we need another option at 7.
If it Jennings or whoever we need to get them game-time.
I'd rather we loose in SH tour if we experiment giving these squad members gametime and see what our options really are when the sh*t hits the fan.
Snoop agree 100% and would like us to bring is a Kiwi or South African to deal with scrummaging only.
I do know Munster are crying out for a scrum coach and the IRFU should be pushing this as it'll benefit national side as a unit.
As for your front row feicarsinn I like look of it but really would prefer Buckley to start at 3.
I not saying Court bad it just i've been impressed with Buckley in few game in 6N and I still believe if we get someone working on scrummaging then he can improve quickly and massively in that department.
And Buckley raw power is another reason (like John Hayes :bana: ) he has lifting power of 2 players and it is a massive benefit as anyone who studies restarts and lineouts would notice.
I don't think Horan will get back up to international level but hopefully we can get him back up as we need him for World Cup as back up to Healy.
Also if we serious about Cronin then we have to give him game time against NZ or Aus.
As Kidney said regarding Sexton and ROG in Nov "we already know we have one quality 10 now we have to see if we have another"
Well same philosophy applies to Cronin situation and well in backrow Wallace will be restricted to 60mins in fewer games so we need another option at 7.
If it Jennings or whoever we need to get them game-time.
I'd rather we loose in SH tour if we experiment giving these squad members gametime and see what our options really are when the sh*t hits the fan.
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dullonien
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Mar 22 2010, 08:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Scrummaging really is one of the major weak point of the Magners League. Very few teams have a top quality scrum, so our props aren't getting the beastings they deserve. If Murray was playign for Glasgow or Edinburgh, many teams in the Magners would get shown up playing against him. Adam Jones has developed into a solid tighthead, but he's not exactly one to crush an opposition scrum. Even Gethin Jenkins is an average scrummager! It's one area that both the Guiness and Top 14 are much stronger at. The fact that the Ospreys can get away with fielding Cai "the useless c*nt" Griffiths atall is due to this weak aspect of our league. The Ospreys got a few beastings against Leicester and Clermont in the HC. Leinster have resorted to an imported tight head to solve the issue.
Ireland and Wales are despirately short of good quality props. From a Welsh perspective, thank god for Gethin and Adam who are literaly propping-up our national team at the moment. This took serious work from Adam, who for a long time was an below average scrummager himself.
Scrummaging really is one of the major weak point of the Magners League. Very few teams have a top quality scrum, so our props aren't getting the beastings they deserve. If Murray was playign for Glasgow or Edinburgh, many teams in the Magners would get shown up playing against him. Adam Jones has developed into a solid tighthead, but he's not exactly one to crush an opposition scrum. Even Gethin Jenkins is an average scrummager! It's one area that both the Guiness and Top 14 are much stronger at. The fact that the Ospreys can get away with fielding Cai "the useless c*nt" Griffiths atall is due to this weak aspect of our league. The Ospreys got a few beastings against Leicester and Clermont in the HC. Leinster have resorted to an imported tight head to solve the issue.
Ireland and Wales are despirately short of good quality props. From a Welsh perspective, thank god for Gethin and Adam who are literaly propping-up our national team at the moment. This took serious work from Adam, who for a long time was an below average scrummager himself.
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MunsterMan
Guest
You have a point there Dull, look at Mike Ross, from being one of the best tightheads in the GP to not being able to get into a ML 22. Just different expectations of props, in the GP the set piece is king, in the ML it is the breakdown.
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