Ireland World Cup 2019 Thread aka "Quarter Final 4"

[big ginger 8]

From that you could make a pretty good guess at something like

Kilcoyne
Cronin (reckon we'll save Best and Scannell got 60 minutes against Italy)
Furlong
Henderson
Kleyn (pretty sure I saw somewhere that Ryan wasn't likely to play but maybe I imagined that)
Stander
Murphy
Conan
Murray
Carty
Stockdale
Aki
Farrell
Conway
Larmour

Which is a decent team, probably won't be good enough go win in Twickenham if Eddie goes full or close to full strength, but could do well otherwise.

Yeah you'd imagine that's the guts of it Indo are suggesting Byrne will start 10. An Aki Farrell partnership is not really something I want to see again.

You'd presume England will be playing a pretty full strength team other than Billy and I don't think we should really alter our prep because of it but I would love us to go No 1, **** the whole underdog thing, I want proper momentum.

Saw a quote from Richie Murphy that we're bringing 5 halfbacks and 14 backs total which is pretty much what was expected by most. With Carbery's injury it basically has to be 2 9's again. Which begs the question who's going to be the emergency 9?

 

[Groundhog]

Think Schmidt needs to pick his replacement for Carbery fast and give him loads of game time. Personally I would trust Byrne to come into a high pressure world cup game and win it for us more than Carty, even if I do think Carty is an incredible kicker from hand and can play some great rugby, Byrne is the better rounded player.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

If we don't have Carbery and Sexton I'm not watching the world cup.

 

[munstermuffin]

If we don't have Carbery and Sexton I'm not watching the world cup.

Both will be fine. Joey from what I've heard will possibly make the last game of warm ups. Will he be risked. I hope so.
Sexton and Earls are on specific programmes which monitor their workloads.

Interestingly I presum 3 9s are going as Marmion has been mentioned as a possible wing option in real case of emergency.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Ireland (possible) v England: Rob Kearney; Keith Earls, Robbie Henshaw, Bundee Aki, Jacob Stockdale; Ross Byrne, Conor Murray; Cian Healy, Rory Best, Tadhg Furlong, Jean Kleyn, Iain Henderson, Peter O'Mahony, Josh van der Flier, CJ Stander.

Thornley's predicted team. More or less first choice except for Ringrose (who played last time obviously), Ryan and Sexton (who's injured). The most interesting thing there is obviously Byrne starting and 10, if he goes well he'll be the favourite to make the place ahead of Carty. Schmidt's comments after the Italy game seemed to say that he wasn't actually too convinced by Carty's performance off the bench so it's very much an open discussion.

 

[bushytop]

So that Gordon Darcy piece in the Irish Times today... an intentional rocket up the arse or is that how he really feels?

 

[munstermuffin]

Interesting though is the opposite if Byrne goes badly then he will be cut. Heard rumours Larmour is in ahead of Earls too as he like Sexton are managed.

The fact Kleyn plays again seems to suggest he is very much a live option for Japan

 

[Groundhog]

So that Gordon Darcy piece in the Irish Times today... an intentional rocket up the arse or is that how he really feels?

Yeah I did read that all right. I see what he's saying but as an article it was all over the place and I didn't agree with much of it. It's not easy as a former player with personal relationships with players and coaches to be that critical as he said himself, but it was fairly soon and gloom as we tend to be as a sporting nation after a few setbacks.

 

[bushytop]

Yeah I did read that all right. I see what he's saying but as an article it was all over the place and I didn't agree with much of it. It's not easy as a former player with personal relationships with players and coaches to be that critical as he said himself, but it was fairly soon and gloom as we tend to be as a sporting nation after a few setbacks.

That was why I thought it might've been intentional to get the boys fired up for the England game... I often read far too deeply into these sorts of things though.

 

[Leinster Fan]

I'd say some of it is to with the fact that as a person Gordan D'Arcy has a fairly terrible record with world cups, he missed out on the squads in 2003 and 2015 (to be fair with 2015 it was less that he was close to going and more that it came a year late for him), and in three he did make it to we only made it to the quarters once, which was the incredibly frustrating loss to Wales in 2011 where Warren Gatland completely outsmarted Declan Kidney.

Rugbypass have another team, which is mostly the same but has Ringrose and Larmour instead of Aki and Earls, I don't trust them at all but I think they could be on to something with the Larmour thing, not a hope Earls is playing unless he's fit.

Obviously big pressure on Byrne but this combined with Schmidt's comments on Carty's performance against Italy suggest that Byrne is in the driving seat to go. Obviously it'll come down to their performances but if he goes well there probably isn't much Carty than do. Agree on Kleyn, he wouldn't be getting this much time if he wasnt being seriously looked at as an option.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

This could also be my overreaction to the England game XV, just swap Josh van der Flier in for Dan Leavy.

My overreacting to the 6 Nations XV:

Larmour, Conway, Ringrose, Henshaw, Stockdale, Sexton, Murray; Healy, Cronin, Furlong, Ryan (c), Toner, Beirne, Leavy, Conan
Replacements: Scannell, Kilcoyne, Porter, Henderson, Stander, Marmion, Carbery, Addison

I don't think that much change is needed at all, you got rid of the only back three player who looked in any way assured yesterday in Kearney for one. I think next week, with an eye to the RWC starting team we need to see:

Kearney, Earls, Ringrose, Henshaw, Stockdale, Sexton, Marmion*, Kilcoyne*, Cronin, Furlong, Ryan, Toner, POM, VdF, Conan,

McGrath, Scannell, Porter, Henderson, Beirne, McGrath, whoever, Larmour.

* Denotes replacement for presumed injured player

There's a couple positions who are obviously massively failing to do their individual roles accurately since the start of the year (Best, CJ, Aki - and longer in CJ's case) but I don't think there's need to panic yet. Yesterday we missed 38 tackles, only making 2/3rds of them, that straight up doesn't happen to a team in mid season because tackling is one of the last skills to be addressed before the start of any season so as to avoid injuries in preseason.

The things that have been consistently wrong like the lineout and CJ Stander's ability to play rugby need to be addressed, match sharpness will come naturally and hopefully bring with it an enhanced gameplan that you'd pray they've been working on for 9 months.

Yesterday was two sides at different stages of preparation, England looked about two weeks ahead of us, and it makes sense that they are considering they have to face teams with real potential fire power in their last two group games while we know we can, and have, beat Scotland with our B/C game so want to be hitting top form in the QF rather than the groups like the last two world cups. Things obviously need to improve and they will, by how much is the question, but I'm no more or less worried than I was 24 hours ago. (Although I did expect that sort of winning margin which may be a worry in itself)

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

The main area that needs change is in the backrow. There's a pattern emerging with Peter O'Mahony. He plays one huge game every 6 months and dines out on it. He needs more consistency in his game because, for me at least, Tadhg Beirne is a better carrier and better over the ball.

In the NFL, running backs see their form nosedive after the age of 28/29 due to years of punishing abuse in college football and early in their pro careers. CJ Stander was an excellent ball carrier but appears to be suffering the same fate. It's clearly time for somebody else to become Ireland's starting 8.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

The main area that needs change is in the backrow. There's a pattern emerging with Peter O'Mahony. He plays one huge game every 6 months and dines out on it. He needs more consistency in his game because, for me at least, Tadhg Beirne is a better carrier and better over the ball.

In the NFL, running backs see their form nosedive after the age of 28/29 due to years of punishing abuse in college football and early in their pro careers. CJ Stander was an excellent ball carrier but appears to be suffering the same fate. It's clearly time for somebody else to become Ireland's starting 8.

I was tempted to put Ruddock or Beirne ahead of POM to be honest, I just can't remember any good backrow performances without POM since Heaslip went. (Who did a lot of what POM gets lots of credit for better and remained much maligned throughout his career)

 

[bushytop]

Just out of curiosity has Ruddock ever played 8, he 'looks' kinda like an 8 just by appearance (for whatever that's worth)?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Just out of curiosity has Ruddock ever played 8, he 'looks' kinda like an 8 just by appearance (for whatever that's worth)?

He probably has in the pro14. Too slow though.

 

[big ginger 8]

Just out of curiosity has Ruddock ever played 8, he 'looks' kinda like an 8 just by appearance (for whatever that's worth)?

Played a lot of his early rugby there. Don't think you'd want him starting there at this stage. Fine cover for the position but if we want to drop Stander the clear and obvious replacement is Conan.

 

[rugga658]

Irish backrow got marginalised

POM is well suspected but he's not a dynamic player at Int'l level
Great at lineouts & useful over the ball but is ponderous compared to his peers
Matera Underhill PSDT Navidi A Savea etc

JVDF is okay Small undersized flanker who makes alot of passive tackles
Again decent over the ball like POM but again Underhill & Curry are way better
players

Stander looks bang average compared to B Vunipola
Time to start Coman who I rate highly

Itoje as well is several order more skilful & impactful than James Ryan

Stockdale rushing up & in has been an issue for a while
Was bloody awful for Ulster vs Glasgow in Pro 14 Semi Final

Irish defence was breached on the edges multiple times
Felt like I was a rerun of 2015 RWC QF when Los Pumas carved up the Irish

The most concerning part was that the Irish had a week off whilst ENG had come off
back to back tough matches against Welsh

Andy Dunne is looking wise with his observations

 

[Leinster Fan]

I just don't know how much we can expect to actually achieve with a flanker who doesn't tackle and doesn't carry. The odd lineout steal and a few turnovers doesn't justify a place in the team.

 

[rugga658]

I just don't know how much we can expect to actually achieve with a flanker who doesn't tackle and doesn't carry. The odd lineout steal and a few turnovers doesn't justify a place in the team.

Nothing will be done

This is Schmidt's team & there won't be any strings added to their bow

Irish pack is very good but ENG & Boks are better Once you neutralise that strength
There's isn't much else to worry about from Ireland

Best & Cronin lineout throwing is also a liability at times so you can play a territory games
& squeeze Ireland there as well

Irish will have enough to get to QF but not get past the Boks

 

[big ginger 8]

Irish backrow got marginalised

POM is well suspected but he's not a dynamic player at Int'l level
Great at lineouts & useful over the ball but is ponderous compared to his peers
Matera Underhill PSDT Navidi A Savea etc

JVDF is okay Small undersized flanker who makes alot of passive tackles
Again decent over the ball like POM but again Underhill & Curry are way better
players

Stander looks bang average compared to B Vunipola
Time to start Coman who I rate highly

Itoje as well is several order more skilful & impactful than James Ryan

Stockdale rushing up & in has been an issue for a while
Was bloody awful for Ulster vs Glasgow in Pro 14 Semi Final

Irish defence was breached on the edges multiple times
Felt like I was a rerun of 2015 RWC QF when Los Pumas carved up the Irish

The most concerning part was that the Irish had a week off whilst ENG had come off
back to back tough matches against Welsh

Andy Dunne is looking wise with his observations

I agree with most of your points about the backrow.

I actually have no idea how you're getting your conclusion about Ryan? He's basically the Irish player furthest from the problem. He's only turned 23 but is pretty much our most consistent player and always in the top three performers for us. He was our best player in the 6N. Itoje seems to have found form again and is obviously a class player but I wouldn't exactly be over the moon at swapping the two.

Stockdale's defence is problematic but he's getting some unfair criticism for yesterday's performance. It's part of Farrell's system that the defence is very narrow and that if someone fucks up inside it often makes the winger look like the idiot. Certainly for the first try out wide Stockdale actually made the right decision but England executed very well. In an ideal world he wouldn't have had to come in but Aki got sat down way to easily and there was suddenly a large overlap. He absolutely needs to do better but I think some people are overstating the problem after yesterday.

Finally, I'd agree with the week off thing...if we were mid season. At this point it actually works the other way for me and is the main reason I'm not massively worried about yesterday. England are further along in their prep than we are and have actual match fitness. Something which is impossible to replicate in training and can only really be improved by playing matches. If we continue like this then yes it is very worrisome and the scale of it is concerning but a number of the problems in defence and around the ruck are basically guaranteed to get better. To a lessor degree they should also help the attack but that is definitely more worrying.

I don't believe we're in a great place or have a secret masterplan but basing too much of any opinion off yesterday is a mistake. One change that I do hope is realised and is really based off basically the last two seasons is that Conan should be our starting 8 as you say.