Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2019' started by The Alpha Bro, May 19, 2019.
I would be..... Very surprised if Toner didn't travel and start.
100% agreed. He is a key part of set piece too defensively and attacking. Just that is the rumour so that means RWC is near
Kleyn over Toner would be ridiculous, unless Dev is really struggling after his injury and is looking nowhere near his best. Seems unlikely Joe would dump him now though.
Edit: thinking about it I think Tommy O'Donnell is in with a decent chance of making the squad, Ruddock had a good game against Italy but we don't really need him tbh, he's not seriously good enough at 7/8 and there isn't a need for another 6 in the squad. Murphy is a better bet than TOD but he looked a bit off the pace against Italy (admittedly 8), if O'Donnell has another good game against England/Murphy has another average game you never know what'd happen. Obviously he'd only be going to play 7 against Russia/Samoa but it could happen. Would prefer Murphy and I think Jordi should play 7 against England (Vdf needs to be wrapped in cotton wool).
Anyway for all the debate realistically there's very little that can change in terms of the actual first choice 23 which barring injuries will almost certainly be
2) Best (chance to seriously develop another option (not to mention the absence of another captaincy option) is probably gone but I think we should at least try Scannell who's definitely good enough)
7) Van Der Flier
8) Stander (Conan deserves a chance after tep seasons of consistent excellence)
10) Sexton (provided they get back to themselves)
12) Henshaw (or maybe Aki)
17) Kilcoyne (or maybe McGrath but probably not)
19) Henderson/Toner (unless Beirne can force his way in)
20) Conan probably
23) Larmour probably
I'd be vert surprised if Tommy O'Donnell made the squad. First choice 7 is Josh van der Flier. If he goes down, either Jordi Murphy slots in or Peter O'Mahony shifts across.
I don't know if the Devin Toner rumour has any merit but second row has become very competitive. Simply looking at Joe Schmidt's track record, he likes big, powerful tighthead locks. Damian Browne and Brad Thorn filled that role for Leinster and Quinn Roux got more caps than anyone could have expected for Ireland due to his size. Schmidt has bigged up Jean Kleyn at every opportunity as being capable of filling that role.
Not too gone on Kleyn but he definitely has a chance of going as a fifth lock with Beirne covering across (or as one of four locks but that'd be silly). I wouldn't classify O'Donnell as likely to go but it could happen if Jordi underwhelmed again, WC squads tend to lead to people who weren't in the conversation getting in.
Anyway more players are expected to be culled this week, at a guess Mike Haley is the first most likely. Bealham, Herring, O'Donnell, Luke McGrath, Dave Kearney are others who'd be worried about not making to Portugal. Ross Byrne would have been on that list too but he'll probably be kept with Carbery's injury.
I don't know anything about how Joe sees things but Herring and Bealham will probably be kept after not really getting a chance against Italy, O'Donnell and Kearney probably earned themselves a stay of execution with good performances in that game, and I'd say he'll keep Luke to keep his options open when it comes to taking or not taking three scrum halves. I'd guess Haley is the only one who's actually likely to be dumped but there are others who could well be gone as well.
Regarding squad selection.
5 half backs
4 back 3
That's my guess. Unfortunately a few injuries will make selection clearer.
Carbery's injury probably puts Cooney on the plane.
It's between Larmour and Conway for the final back 3 spot.
Any injury to a center means another back 3 player will make it.
That's all my opinion on what I think JS will do.
Think there might be a shock ommision like Toner being mentioned above? Farrell playing at 12 for example was interesting since we're presumably bringing both Henshaw and Aki also. Or will Henshaw be used @ 15? Herr Schmidt also hinted Ringrose playing on the wing.
To add to this I must note from a player that Robbie Henshaw has done alot of work training as a 15 so I think it nearly confirms it will be 4 centres and 4 back 3 guys with Henshaw being the 15/ 5th back 3 player. Makes more sense now to have seen Chris Farrell at 12 also.
Chris Farrell at 12 has to make Henshaw at 15 more likely, there's no need for him ther otherwise.
Don't think we'll take 6 back rows though, especially with Beirne/Henderson being able to play across.
1st time I've seen Farrell live and he impressed Physical player
TBH Henshaw is a tad overrated Living off past glories
I'd take the following Irishmen to Japan 17/14Splits re. Forwards/Backs
LH: Healy Kilcoyne
TH: Furlong J Ryan Porter
HK: Best Cronin Scannell
LK: Ryan Toner Henderson
BKR: POM JVDF Stander Beirne Murphy Coman
SH: Murray Cooney Marmion
FH: Sexton Carberry Carty
CE: Henshaw Ringrose Aki Farrell
WI/FB: Earls Stockdale Kearney Larmour
Henshaw was Leinster's best back at the end of last season but sure. Injuries have meant he hasn't played much over the last few seasons but that doesn't mean he's declined as a player. When he has played (AT 12!) he's been very good.
Other than that I think I agree with you squad though.
If we're bringing Farrell at 12 I'd want Addison rather than Aki. Aki has stank the place out this year and has somehow come under less criticism than Henshaw who's been far better, similar to Murray and Sexton.
I have said this consistently. Especially when Aki and Henshaw played together. Both want to do same role and it is pointless having both in same squad.
Farrell I think has now shown he is very able at 12 or 13 (where he is by such a distance the best back up 13 to Ringrose).
Question is something Schmidt toyed with before. If Henshaw and Ring rose start would he consider using Farrell as 23 at times with Robbie covering 15 and Ringrose the wings.
Somehow over the course of the last year Robvie Henshaw has gone from widely being considered our best centre to someone who shouldn't make the 23 despite playing almost no rugby, being very good when he did play (excluding the one game out of position against England which on isn't him at all) and the team he wasn't playing for being pretty s****, especially the guy who was playing in his position.
Our best centre pairing is 12. Henshaw and 13. Ringrose. They're our two best centres, in their best positions, with the best balance, and a provincial relationship. Henshaw at 15 though was not a success. I think Farrell has more to his game than he's given credit for and I'd back him at any level, but it may be too late for him.
TBH I've never been as high on Henshaw as others rate him
Good player but easily replaceable at #12
Ringrose is best Irish centre by far
I'd like to see him play with Farrell at #12 more often
Aki is a crashball centre with a decent offload game
I like Farrell but at the same time I think a team with him at 13 has the same problems as a team with Henshaw at 13. Outside a playmaking 12 either of them could be brilliant (12. Nacewa 13. Henshaw worked really well for Leinster) but outside a guy like Aki, or Henshaw himself, it gets very one-dimensional very fast.
Imagine we had two Gary Ringroses........ I'll be back in like 10 minutes
I'd disagree here. Farrell is much much better as for a big fella he has a superb set of foot work as well as the way he uses his size. Agree that Aki at 12 blocks them a bit but at same time I think Farrell is a better 13 and equally a Henshaw/Farrell partnership would be much more than an Aki Henshaw partnership in the event of Ringrose being unavailable. But Henshaw is a 12 who can fill in at13 to a standard but hasn't the footwork for it to be honest. He is a worldclass 12. And Ringrose is a worldclass 13.
Bealham, Cooney and Haley cut.
Cooney is a bit of a surprise. (although @big ginger 8 had a sneaky tip off/he's a loser who also reads Boards) Perhaps we'll only go with two 9s again with Carbery's injury? Trust someone like Larmour or Carty to cover it in case of emergency against a minnow like Schmidt had mentioned with Mad Dawg 4 years ago?
Carbery's injury presumably makes 3 outhalves the plan which rendered Cooney's covering 10 shtick irrelevant, even though he is for my money the second best 9 in the country (best if.you take into account Murray's form last year). Far less international experience than the other two though and much less knockout experience than McGrath.
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